Female Students Facing Sexual Harassment And Groping In University Lad Culture, Says NUS

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I would never suggest that rape victims are at fault.
In fact I believe the sentences passed for rape crimes are not sufficiently long. I believe this for many crimes within our society, but when a convicted rapist is put away for a second and then third time for rape ( as the press has covered) and when those convicted of sexual based crimes, harassement etc (given what we know regarding low reporting rates, and low conviction rates) go on to progress to worse crimes, rape and murder- rape. It demonstrates a massive sectional failing within our criminal justice system.

Rehabilitation is one thing, but if a person comits the crime a second time, there should never be release, not with murder, with rape and with paedo stuff. There is no place in society for these people.

Hurf, the reason I bring it up, is because you have previously. As a worker in the sex industry, hiding your occupation, as you do not know how to categorise yourself is a route of the problem. Death and taxes, those are certain, if the govt know about our sex trade, taxed it, it would remove the stigma that British culture attaches to it, or it might start to remove it.

I am not going to apologise for rape, I've never contemplated sticking my bits in a girl because she was drunk, or she was wearing a short skirt, it isn't in my mindset, but clearly those people exist, and education may be one aspect of it, but there are others.

In the OP, a girl getting ugly chanted at her, that isn't related to rape.
The guy who jerked off on the girl on a packed tube train, that sure as hell is.
I am amazed she even reported saying she knew she should move but didn't.
 
Hikari Kisugi said:
I would never suggest that rape victims are at fault.
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No, but many people do.

I think we also need to remember that stranger rape is pretty rare, the vast majority are from people who are in a relationship or have been at some point and we need to remember that we don't have an entitlement to sex even if we're married to them.

This is where objectification becomes an issue, because some men don't think that you can rape someone you're in a relationship with.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
As I said above, there is the question of whether this change in use is appropriate or simply offensive. Someone made the comment that perhaps this is just something that annoys me, and whilst I think I have a logical argument to why it annoys and frustrates me, they are right.

Most people are shielded from the realities of rape and sexual assault and whilst they understand that it's wrong and quite traumatic, unless you've seen the fallout, you never quite understand. Over the last few months I have seen in very graphic detail what rape is and what effect it has on people's lives first hand. When you see someone who is completely hysterical after a rape, any use of it in a casual sense does become quite offensive as any ignorance you had previously has stopped protecting you from the realities.

Most people won't see what I've seen (thank goodness) and will remain ignorant, but that doesn't mean what they are doing isn't still harmful.
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One of my mates dads has terminal cancer, he doesn't get offended if someone uses the word cancer in conversation. The world seems to be obsessed with making sure that no one is slightly offended by something someone says regardless of context, content and meaning. I understand that its a very sensitive issue but most people are capable of not using it around the wrong people.

There will always be idiots in the world but that should not be taken as representative of the masses. There are always issues that are very close or relevant to certain people but I think there is a danger of making anything that could be taken as offensive to be offensive.

Whenever I see people behaving like prats I don't take it personally. When a stranger makes an inappropriate comment to me, I couldn't care less, it has no bearing on me that some random is venting. I tend to take it as a reflection of them rather than me.
 
fez said:
The world seems to be obsessed with making sure that no one is slightly offended by something someone says regardless of context, content and meaning.
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The problem is a lot of people use the word regardless of the word's content and meaning.

This isn't about taking offence at silly things, but knowing what words actually mean when you use them inappropriately. I think we all have a duty to be reasonably considerate to other people.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
The problem is a lot of people use the word regardless of the word's content and meaning.

This isn't about taking offence at silly things, but knowing what words actually mean when you use them inappropriately. I think we all have a duty to be reasonably considerate to other people.
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Of course you have to be sensitive and aware of who is about but I think most people do that anyway. I have used and heard the word rape used in sentences completely unrelated to the actual act.

I think we draw too many conclusions from these things. People who are capable of rape are not a separate species that you can pick out of a lineup based on what comes out of their mouths. Nothing I say when talking about women with my friends affects my treatment or feelings towards them. I don't suddenly start to see my moral boundaries crumbling. Its just to get a laugh most of the time, ergo its said in jest.

Take all of those guys that make stupid remarks in public and sit down and ask them if they think rape is ok in any circumstance and 99% of them would find it terrible. I would certainly wager that peoples behaviour towards the opposite sex is determined well before they are old enough to be out drinking.
 
fez said:
Of course you have to be sensitive and aware of who is about but I think most people do that anyway. I have used and heard the word rape used in sentences completely unrelated to the actual act.

I think we draw too many conclusions from these things. People who are capable of rape are not a separate species that you can pick out of a lineup based on what comes out of their mouths. Nothing I say when talking about women with my friends affects my treatment or feelings towards them. I don't suddenly start to see my moral boundaries crumbling. Its just to get a laugh most of the time, ergo its said in jest.

Take all of those guys that make stupid remarks in public and sit down and ask them if they think rape is ok in any circumstance and 99% of them would find it terrible. I would certainly wager that peoples behaviour towards the opposite sex is determined well before they are old enough to be out drinking.
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That isn't true, studies have shown that a horrible amount of men will admit to being rapists as long as you don't use the word rape to describe the act. A lot of men think some forms of rape are fair game and it is sickening.
 
regulus said:
From what I've seen a bunch of unwashed toffs with huge noses, unattractive faces and ridiculous oily bouffants making them look like transvestites, getting hammered every weekend and posting their exploits on Facebook ever 10min. They'll also quite often 'talk' to each other on Facebook whilst out even if they're stood right next to each other in the dive, just because they think it's interesting to others.

Just from what I've seen. Might be wrong.
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Love this!

If only it wasn't used in a broader context, I'd totally swap my sig for a quote of it, nails most lads that waste their lives getting hammered every other day perfectly!
 
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hurfdurf said:
That isn't true, studies have shown that a horrible amount of men will admit to being rapists as long as you don't use the word rape to describe the act. A lot of men think some forms of rape are fair game and it is sickening.
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Well then they don't understand what rape is then. What they do consider rape, they still find appalling. That needs to be a re-education but what has that got to do with the language they use?

People don't start changing their definitions of rape after talking crap to their mates. Like I said, most people have already chosen their views on the opposite sex and everything about them by the time they get to maturity. They don't start off thinking that forcing yourself on a woman in any way is rape and 5 years later thinks it's ok because she was wearing a short skirt or because she was your girlfriend.
 
hurfdurf said:
Fantastic post
A++ would read again.

I am quoting it because more people need to stop victim blaming and start combatting rape culture, destroying the myth that rape victims are some how at fault.
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You are 100% correct that the victims are not at fault no matter how they dress, however I would always encourage any female I care about not to dress too provocatively just because there are people out their who for whatever reason will commit sexual crimes. Sometimes it's not down to "rape culture", some people have mental health problems etc. that can cause it. It's better to not put yourself at risk in my opinion. You can't just blame it all on "rape culture".

In a perfect world where no crime is committed then we wouldn't need to worry and females could dress however they liked. At the same time, we could also do away with locks on our doors, burglar alarms, car alarms, the police force etc.
 
Or just issue the death penalty for rapists, if that isn't a deterrence then I don't know what is.

Stick it on murder while we're at it too.
 
Moses said:
That combined with, 'difficult to understand or explain'...
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Separated by a semi-colon, which indicates they are related YET independent. In a dictionary, semi-colons are used to define synonymy as well as a separate definitive relationship. For example:

Bad (adj)

Of poor condition; inferior or defective; deficient; inadequate or below standard.

Or

It can be used thusly...

Bad (adj)

Evil; Wicked; Spoiled; unfortunate, mistaken.

There we see is a distinct difference in the words and how they are used.

You wouldn't use all those word together, they are independent of each other but can be used depending on the context as alternatives to the word Bad.

I used Strange in the context that it was "out of the ordinary or unusual. Not necessarily that it was inexplicable.

For example, "It is strange to see the word Gay used in this way in modern poetry."...you could also say "It is unusual to see the word Gay used in this way in modern poetry". Both are correct.

It was an acceptable statement and was further clarified, as I have yet again. I stand by it, if you disagree so be it.

In any case it doesn't alter the position being taken, the use of the word Gay in the definition of 'happy' is very unusual in modern parlance and simply because your friend may have used it in a poem doesn't mean that it is proof of commonality, so it is really a moot point.
 
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Some interesting views here in more than one way. I will say however if people think it is bad over here then they've not been exposed to the culture of the Ivy League.
 
grimm said:
You are 100% correct that the victims are not at fault no matter how they dress, however I would always encourage any female I care about not to dress too provocatively just because there are people out their who for whatever reason will commit sexual crimes.
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I believe that last part is flawed and is part of the basis for people putting some blame on the victims - you're essentially helping to spread a myth.
As far as I'm aware there isn't much evidence to suggest that rape is linked to the way people dress - thus there really isn't any fault at all on the part of the victims.

If I left a wallet and laptop on my car seat and someone smashed the window and stole them... its not my fault that I got them stolen but people will think that I was being careless, I was partly to blame for attracting the attention of a thief. People make those same assumptions about rape victims... that someone was dressing provocatively thus putting themselves at greater risk... AFAIK that isn't necessarily the case.
 
dowie said:
I believe that last part is flawed and is part of the basis for people putting some blame on the victims - you're essentially helping to spread a myth.
As far as I'm aware there isn't much evidence to suggest that rape is linked to the way people dress - thus there really isn't any fault at all on the part of the victims.

If I left a wallet and laptop on my car seat and someone smashed the window and stole them... its not my fault that I got them stolen but people will think that I was being careless, I was partly to blame for attracting the attention of a thief. People make those same assumptions about rape victims... that someone was dressing provocatively thus putting themselves at greater risk... AFAIK that isn't necessarily the case.
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This isn't primarily about rape anyway, its about women being degraded on a night out by things said to them or peoples actions. If you dress in barely anything though, how can you have complaints if you attract the attention of horny guys. It doesn't mean they can do what they like but you can hardly complain if you get some sleazy guys chatting you up.
 
dowie said:
I believe that last part is flawed...
As far as I'm aware there isn't much evidence to suggest that rape is linked to the way people dress - thus there really isn't any fault at all on the part of the victims.

If I left a wallet and laptop on my car seat and someone smashed the window and stole them... its not my fault that I got them stolen but people will think that I was being careless, I was partly to blame for attracting the attention of a thief. People make those same assumptions about rape victims... that someone was dressing provocatively thus putting themselves at greater risk... AFAIK that isn't necessarily the case.
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My point was, that even if there is a chance, however slim, I'd rather be safe than sorry and not take that chance. I would rather not even have that as a possible factor for my own peace of mind.

Not everyone is as rational as we are. It is not much of a stretch to imagine that someone with a sick mind could conclude that someone dressing provocatively is an invitation to do something.
 
fez said:
Well then they don't understand what rape is then. What they do consider rape, they still find appalling. That needs to be a re-education but what has that got to do with the language they use?

People don't start changing their definitions of rape after talking crap to their mates. Like I said, most people have already chosen their views on the opposite sex and everything about them by the time they get to maturity. They don't start off thinking that forcing yourself on a woman in any way is rape and 5 years later thinks it's ok because she was wearing a short skirt or because she was your girlfriend.
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To all those men who don’t think the rape jokes are a problem:

I get it—you’re a decent guy. I can even believe it. You’ve never raped anybody. You would NEVER rape anybody. You’re upset that all these feminists are trying to accuse you of doing something, or connect you to doing something, that, as far as you’re concerned, you’ve never done and would never condone.

And they’ve told you about triggers, and PTSD, and how one in six women is a survivor, and you get it. You do. But you can’t let every time someone gets all upset get in the way of you having a good time, right? Especially when it doesn’t mean anything. Rape jokes have never made YOU go out and rape someone. They never would; they never could. You just don’t see how it matters.

I’m going to tell you how it does matter. And I tell you this because I genuinely believe you mean it when you say you don’t want to hurt anybody, and that it’s important to you to do your best to be a decent and good person, and that you don’t see the harm. And I genuinely believe you when you say you would never associate with a rapist and you think rape really is a very bad thing.

Here is why I refuse to take rape jokes sitting down…

Because 6% of college-aged men (http://www.collegenews.com/index.php?/article/college_men_admit_to_commiting_rape_2356263623/), slightly over 1 in 20, will admit to raping someone in anonymous surveys, as long as the word “rape” isn’t used in the description of the act—and that’s the conservative estimate. Other sources double that number (http://www2.binghamton.edu/counseling/documents/RAPE_FACT_SHEET1.pdf).

A lot of people accuse feminists of thinking that all men are rapists. That’s not true. But do you know who think all men are rapists?

Rapists do.

They really do. In psychological study, the profiling, the studies, it comes out again and again.

Virtually all rapists genuinely believe that all men rape, and other men just keep it hushed up better. And more, these people who really are rapists are constantly reaffirmed in their belief about the rest of mankind being rapists like them by things like rape jokes, that dismiss and normalize the idea of rape.

If one in twenty guys (or more) is a real and true rapist, and you have any amount of social activity with other guys like yourself, then it is almost a statistical certainty that one time hanging out with friends and their friends, playing Halo with a bunch of guys online, in a WoW guild, in a pick-up game of basketball, at a bar, or elsewhere, you were talking to a rapist. Not your fault. You can’t tell a rapist apart any better than anyone else can. It’s not like they announce themselves.

But, here’s the thing. It’s very likely that in some of these interactions with these guys, at some point or another, someone told a rape joke. You, decent guy that you are, understood that they didn’t mean it, and it was just a joke. And so you laughed.

Or maybe you didn’t laugh. Maybe it just wasn’t a very funny joke. So maybe you just didn’t say anything at all.

And, decent guy who would never condone rape, who would step in and stop rape if he saw it, who understands that rape is awful and wrong and bad, when you laughed? When you were silent?

That rapist who was in the group with you, that rapist thought that you were on his side. That rapist knew that you were a rapist like him. And he felt validated, and he felt he was among his comrades.

You. The rapist’s comrade.

And if that doesn’t make you feel sick to your stomach, if that doesn’t make you want to throw up, if that doesn’t disturb you or bother you or make you feel like maybe you should at least consider not participating in that kind of humor anymore, not abiding it in your presence, not greeting it with silence…

Well, maybe you aren’t as opposed to rapists as you claim.



Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/rape-jokes-are-no-laughing-matter.html#ixzz2N4di39ir
 
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