True, hate them all you like but you can't deny tha Germany went from a wreck of a country akin to greece to pretty much taking over the whole of Europe in less then 20 years!
Bedroom tax
- Thread starter Danthus
- Start date
True, hate them all you like but you can't deny tha Germany went from a wreck of a country akin to greece to pretty much taking over the whole of Europe in less then 20 years!
All through policies that you would be hard pushed to describe as anything other than "socialist".
The problem being in that getting it to work involved whipping up an almost rabid nationalism.
So a democratic socialist party such as say, The Labour Party, doesn't exist...
You cant have socialism without fiscal authoritarianism to enforce the tax and redistribute model, at least not in the real world.
freedom and liberal positioning requires both social and fiscal freedom.
And that is without getting into how labour have always been both a socially and fiscally authoritarian party. just witness the sheer amount of legislation and taxation increases under the last government.
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So a democratic socialist party such as say, The Labour Party, doesn't exist...
Would you stand up and argue the last labour government was anything other than authoritarian?
Yes, but a bedroom in a house is a bedroom, regardless of wether it gets used as an Office or any other purpose.
Anyone who starts undertaking work to change the purpose of their rooms would be breaching their agreement and could be kicked out. Plus those responsible know what the property is, if its 3 bedrooms and one has suddenly gone missing, its going to be plain as day.
Permabanned
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Nobody in "social housing" should get anything bigger than a 2 bed. That applies to these scummy families breeding like rabbits too.
They should have to make do with the very minimum rather than have a large house for their chavvy brood to trash.
They should have to make do with the very minimum rather than have a large house for their chavvy brood to trash.
I don't think you understand what authoritarian is in this context. The Labour Party in Government was not an authoritarian regime.
And I assume Conservative and Liberal parties are also not enforcing taxation and redistribution?
I would love to see a society where taxation and social freedom is absolute (as opposed to democratic), and what kind of anarchic state that would quickly devolve into.
This Tax is Theft kind of thinking is flawed and has no practical basis.
Tax is theft isnt a reason to abolish tax, but to ensure it falls fairly and is used efficiently, as well as ensuring that only necessary activites are funded by it.
the reduction to the absurd approach does nothing to counter the argument.
How do we get from you not refuting the proposition with an argument of any substance to me not understanding the meaning of authoritarian?
Its not a game of absolutes, if you are only willing to deal in an argument of "of what isn't white must be black", the conversation is over.
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Simply because you may disagree with how tax revenue is used or attributed doesn't automatically make it unfair or inefficient, it doesn't mean it isn't either...the exact same criticisms can be made agains any and all political parties...we can argue for example that the huge amount of money spent on a Nuclear Deterent instead of Housing, Welfare or Health is both unfair and inefficent...we can argue these kinds of things from our respective ideological and political viewpoints all day, however that doesn't imply that the former Govt was authoritarian in the context that it is being used in this thread indicated by by its associations. All societies require a level of legislative enforcement and social responsibility, again this doesn't imply authoritarianism in the same context as it is being used.
And it isn't reducing anything to the absurd, it is illustrating how flawed such a statement actually is in reality.
I didn't vote for Labour either btw, and neither will I. I simply disagree with such ridiculous statements about authoritarianism when there are real authoritarian societies in the world that people are attempting to associate a UK govt with. By the same token, I disagree with this Tory's only care about the rich attitude, again this is a gross misrepresentation of both the Labour Govt and the Coalition Govt.
Because Authoritarianism is characterised largely by repression and exclusion of other opposing political and legal entities, usually by force or mobilising the public around a personality cult or organisation.
The former Govt is guilty of none of these things...we have a free (albeit flawed) party political system where free opposition can be expressed without fear or repression, the Govt is subject to legal and legislative control, and is subject to the rule of law rather than some arbitrary application of law controlled by the ruling govt.
This is why the Labour Govt was not authoritarian.
This is the case in my area, rows and rows of terraced houses all with 2 bedrooms which is where all the poorest people live.
If, as you said, people called their bluff this idea would collapse instantly.
To still charge people when the option simply isn't there is just wrong.
I will say I have no problem with this policy being applied to properties with more than 2 bedrooms or in an area with a plentiful supply of single bedroom properties.
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stepped bands, inconsistent application of benefits and tax loopholes and so on are what makes taxation in this country unfair. This isnt a problem with a specific political party, but with a system that allows voters to demand things and obligate others to pay for them.
a fair system would prevent this with flat taxation rates and universal benefits so the ability to target others to pay for things you want is dramatically reduced.
of course, this is unpopular with all parties and much of the electorate as a result of its fairness.
You have some objective measures for "fairly", "efficiently" and "necessary activities"?
Soldato
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Cas, you may like to know that the Labour party has in the past made donations to groups which have used physical violence against other political parties. I know this because there were moles in these groups.
Tax isn't theft. This is nonsense you've been peddling for years in a pathetic attempt to get others to join your rally cry against the existence of the welfare state.
It's this vacuous premise underlying all of your beliefs, and it has no place in a rational debate.
Fairly - same universal tax rates and benefit entitlement.
efficiently -Spending no more than necessary to achieve the outcome.
necessary - activity requires access to the state monopoly of force, or provides access to necessary services such aas healthcare or education.
