redundancy. Job being outsourced

clade

clade

clade

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Hello all, thanks for taking the time to read this as Im a bit confused where I stand with this hole situation and im unsure if taking the time to visit the CIB is worth it!

Bascily my company has cut 5 people from different departments due to less than expected profits etc. When asking what will happen to my IT support work I was informed it will be outsourced to another company.

After a conversation with our finance director today his attitude changed when I mentioned the fact im actually being outsourced so figured their could be something up with that.

Googled a bit about TUPE but im still unsure if this if fair dismissal at all. What do people think?
 
Are you being TUPE transferred ? If so you haven't been dismissed, the new company will have to keep your current conditions for a period of time.
 
im not being transfered im being made redundant but my role is being outsourced to another company.....
 
Normally i would expect to see you being TUPE'd to the outsourcing company under your existing terms and conditions. They would then either keep you on or make you redundant.

If your original company is making you redundant then your role does not exist to be outsourced.
 
memyselfandi said:
Normally i would expect to see you being TUPE'd to the outsourcing company under your existing terms and conditions. They would then either keep you on or make you redundant.

If your original company is making you redundant then your role does not exist to be outsourced.
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Unless it's being outsourced outside of the UK I believe?
 
my job will be sourced to a UK based company. IT manager has been told this is a criteria of the outsourcing.
 
Haggisman said:
Unless it's being outsourced outside of the UK I believe?
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I don't think that's the case. When it happened to me the work was being sent to an Indian outsourcing company and the reason they were making people redundant was because they were moving the work offshore and it still applied ...

But I'm not a lawyer so ymmv ...
 
Ask straight up if you will be TUPE'd accross to the outsourcing company is step number 1. You don't sound like you know whether you are being made redundant or TUPE'ing accross. Why do you feel you need to speak to Citizens Advice Bureau? We need more detail if you feel it is unfair. If you are made redundant then the job has to be redundant.
 
TUPE does apply but it may simply be that your company is simply unaware of that fact. First step will be to ascertain exactly what is happening, ie is your role being outsourced and, if so, are you being TUPEd.
 
jaybee said:
Ask straight up if you will be TUPE'd accross to the outsourcing company is step number 1. You don't sound like you know whether you are being made redundant or TUPE'ing accross. Why do you feel you need to speak to Citizens Advice Bureau? We need more detail if you feel it is unfair. If you are made redundant then the job has to be redundant.
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Im not being TUPE'd accross to any company. Im unsure about the fact if this is fair or unfair redundancy.

I have 3 weeks consultancy then 3 weeks notice period based on my contact/length of "service"

So basicly what it comes down to in 6 weeks i wont have a job and my job will be given to a outsourcing company because of costs.
 
They need to play it very carefully, here. If there's any chance that you could work for the new employer and are happy in terms of location etc. then a TUPE could feasibly be offered if both parties agree. That's the simplest way.

If they offer that and you then cannot accept the new position -- usually due to problems with unreasonable travel/relocation commitments -- then they would need to formulate a good redundancy package (which would include offering you alternate suitable employment within the company as part of consulation) to avoid a Constructive Dismissal claim against them.
 
clade said:
Im not being TUPE'd accross to any company. Im unsure about the fact if this is fair or unfair redundancy.

I have 3 weeks consultancy then 3 weeks notice period based on my contact/length of "service"

So basicly what it comes down to in 6 weeks i wont have a job and my job will be given to a outsourcing company because of costs.
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You need clarification in writing of this, then you need to seek legal advice. TUPE does apply and depending on the circumstances your company could be in contravention of employment legislation. It could be that your dismissal (even with redundancy) is unfair, particularly if your actual position is being outsourced.

https://www.gov.uk/transfers-takeovers

You should contact ACAS for a better understanding of how TUPE affects you in your individual circumstances.

http://m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1410
 
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Castiel said:
You need clarification in writing of this, then you need to seek legal advice. TUPE does apply and depending on the circumstances your company could be in contravention of employment legislation. It could be that your dismissal (even with redundancy) is unfair, particularly if your actual position is being outsourced.
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Indeed. In my previous post I probably should have described what they would ultimately offer as a good "severance" package, rather than redundancy. As in, I'd give them the option of giving me a hell of a good package to agree the closure of my employment contract or take them to the cleaners at tribunal.
 
As part of my redundancy they are giving me the minimum amount.

Im going to go into the CIB tomorrow morning so I can seek good advise about how to proced as I dont really want to say anything untill ive left especialy considering I only have verbal confirmation that they are going to pay for the 3 weeks unqualified holiday I took.

Kinda nice of them to pay me for the holiday I havent earnt yet (jan to december holiday rota) considering they broke the news a day before I was flying to Oz with the girl friend for a holiday of a life time! lol
 
I work for an IT out source company and we often take on new clients and we usually have the internal staff TUPE across to our company with the same contract that they had at the original company. I think it is a requirement of law that if the IT is out sourced then they have to take on the internal staff. Well at least give them the option to join.
 
I think you'll weaken your position if you don't mention it until after you have left. You shoul ask the question asap about TUPE arrangements and why the company feel they don't apply.
 
@clade

Do you have a union at all, when this happened to myself the union dealt with most of it so I was lucky in that respect, however in the end I had the choice of 90 day notice or TUPE across.

Hope you get all sorted as piggeh has mentioned do as much know while your still in the job to find out dont wait.
 
kkelly said:
@clade

Do you have a union at all, when this happened to myself the union dealt with most of it so I was lucky in that respect, however in the end I had the choice of 90 day notice or TUPE across.

Hope you get all sorted as piggeh has mentioned do as much know while your still in the job to find out dont wait.
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No union I'm afraid, im going to head into the CIB so I know what I should do/ask but play it cool as apparently the directors are going to make up there mind on the outsourcing this week.

Apparently they have had 3 company's. 1 small who cant do it, 2 big that cant do it for x2/x3 my salary. So looking good but still wont mean I wont be looking for a job!

Just want to make sure I have everything I'm entitled to as going to have to buy a car/learn to drive quickly to boost my job prospects.
 
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