Question over Gigabyte ATi Radeon HD 7950 Windforce

[nutpuk]

Hi all,

Quick question...

Looking at ordering a new GFX.

Still can't decide.

Its down to the Gigabyte ATi Radeon HD 7950 and Gigabyte ATi Radeon HD 7970.

As there both on special offer.

Are they both voltage locked?

Or would I be able to overclock the 7950? I think I read the 7970 is......

Is the 7970 worth the extra £60?

 

[NightSt@lk3r]

Hi all,

Quick question...

Looking at ordering a new GFX.

Still can't decide.

Its down to the Gigabyte ATi Radeon HD 7950 and Gigabyte ATi Radeon HD 7970.

As there both on special offer.

Are they both voltage locked?

Or would I be able to overclock the 7950? I think I read the 7970 is......

Is the 7970 worth the extra £60?

The new revision 7950 WF3 is Voltage locked, but its locked at 1.25v which is plenty IMO for a decent overclock, the 7970 is only worth the extra if you care about benchmark scores, real world difference is not that great at all.

 

[Rusty0611]

7970 GB WF 3x is locked as well so not the greatest one in the world.

It's only the Boost Edition 7950s which are locked but it's a high lock to 1.25V anyway.

 

[nutpuk]

Haha I'm still confused....

So the 7950 has more voltage overclock room? Is that correct?

Which would you go for?

Thanks for your help

 

[NightSt@lk3r]

Id go for the 7950.

 

[aceytrixx]

I got a windforce 7950 last month and have got a stable 1100 overclock on it with my voltage around 1.2 i think. Can double check. I almost bought the 7970 but couldnt justify the extra and now that mine has overclocked nicely im glad I saved the cash

 

[ICDP]

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-190-MS&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=1673

MSI TF3 is a better card. Voltage control, runs cool and runs quiet.

I have mine running at 1150/1700 at 1.175 volts. It will reach 1230 core with 1.27 volts but it runs a bit too loud IMHO. Expect 1100-1175 as an overclock and at those speeds you are matching GTX680 OC editions for less money.

 

[Rusty0611]

It's not a better card it's about the same. If it was on the 7970 PCB then I'd agree but the BE MSI 7950s are on the 7950 PCB unfortunately.

Source: I've used two MSI 7950s and a HIS/GB 7950 as well.

 

[ICDP]

The difference between the 7950 PCB and 7970 PCB is not worth worrying about if your 7970 PCB card is voltage locked.

At 1.25v locked voltage the WF 7950 is overvolted and is more than required for an even decent overclock of 1100. At 1.25 volts the card will run hotter and louder than is trully necessary. Lower volts = coller and quieter. At least with an unlocked voltage control you have more options to determine optimum voltage. I am using the following 7950s

MSI TF3 (7950 PCB) 70% Asic - Max stable OC (1210/1700)
VTX3D X-Edition 7950 (7970 8+6 pin PCB) 89% Asic - Mac stable OC (1175/1450)

The MSI 7950 gives better OC results despite having lower Asic and an allegedly worse PCB. So the 7970 PCB is not a guarnatee of better OC potential.

I run both in CF at a conservative 1050/1450 and voltage set at 1.061. If these were voltage locked my system would run much hotter because the cards are overvolted for the OC specified. My point is that is it much better to have the option of using lower volts. Locked votlage HD 79x0 cards do not give anyone that luxury and IMHO people should avoid them for this reason.

 

[Rusty0611]

You seem to be muddling up actual 7970 cards and 7950s on the 7970 PCB.

The 7950 WF cards and the MSI BE cards are on the 7950 PCB. The GB card which I've got which I bought not that long ago is the non BE as well. The Gigabye WF cards (non BE) are not voltage locked at 1.25V lol. Not sure where you're getting this from.

The problem is that you've come in with an absolutist statement which actually upon inspection isn't true. The MSI card isn't a bad card it just isn't better than the Gigabyte WF card. Incidentally the GB card isn't better than the MSI card either although the Windforce cards are a little bit quieter.

I'm not talking out of my bottom - I've used them all .

 

[ICDP]

What are you on about? You seem to be muddling up actual 7970 cards and 7950s on the 7970 PCB.

The 7950 WF cards and the MSI BE cards are on the 7950 PCB. The GB card which I've got which I bought not that long ago is the non BE as well. The Gigabye WF cards (non BE) are not voltage locked at 1.25V lol. Not sure where you're getting this from.

The problem is that you've come in with an absolutist statement which actually upon inspection isn't true. The MSI card isn't a bad card it just isn't better than the Gigabyte WF card. Incidentally the GB card isn't better than the MSI card either although the Windforce cards are a little bit quieter.

I'm not talking out of my bottom - I've used them all .

I'm sorry if I caused confusion but I'm not muddling up my 7970 and 7950 cards at all. I merely responded to your assertion that the MSI 7950 TF3 was only better if it was on the 7970 PCB. I wanted to demonstrate that having a 7950 that uses a 7970 PCB does not = better.

Back to the topic, to the OP.

The difference in speed between a similarly clocked 7970 and 7950 is not work the extra cost. At most you might end up with around 7% difference. When it comes to purchasing a 79x0 card the ability to use lower volts = cooler and as a consequence, quieter with a similar OC. So get a 7950 that is voltage unlocked, that is why I recommended the 7950 TF3 (or similar unlocked card).

 

[the_electrician]

The w3 ver.2 pcb with bios fz0 im lead to believe is voltage locked.
The w3 ver1 that I got came with bioz fz1 @ 1.25v can be adjusted using msi afterburner.

You could ask ocuk what version the pcb is.
There is a lot of confusion on w3 as to which version is locked tho.

Im happy with my w3 I did look at the twinfzn 2 but the price difference was 35 quid at the time.

 

[Rusty0611]

I'm sorry if I caused confusion but I'm not muddling up my 7970 and 7950 cards at all. I merely responded to your assertion that the MSI 7950 TF3 was only better if it was on the 7970 PCB. I wanted to demonstrate that having a 7950 that uses a 7970 PCB does not = better.

Back to the topic, to the OP.

The difference in speed between a similarly clocked 7970 and 7950 is not work the extra cost. At most you might end up with around 7% difference. When it comes to purchasing a 79x0 card the ability to use lower volts = cooler and as a consequence, quieter with a similar OC. So get a 7950 that is voltage unlocked, that is why I recommended the 7950 TF3 (or similar unlocked card).

Well better can't be used in the way that you initially did because as you have said the silicon lottery overrides the PCB and anything else anyway.

However, in a theoretical world where you had two identical silicon quality chips on the 7950 PCB and the 7970 PCB then then 7970 PCB version would fare better. So the MSI TFIII isn't "better" as you put it, it's just as good as any other card on the 7950 PCB silicon lottery permitting.

I agree regarding the difference between the 7950 and 7970. I wouldn't say it's worth it unless you're into benchmarking.

 

[ICDP]

Well better can't be used in the way that you initially did because as you have said the silicon lottery overrides the PCB and anything else anyway.

However, in a theoretical world where you had two identical silicon quality chips on the 7950 PCB and the 7970 PCB then then 7970 PCB version would fare better. So the MSI TFIII isn't "better" as you put it, it's just as good as any other card on the 7950 PCB silicon lottery permitting.

I agree regarding the difference between the 7950 and 7970. I wouldn't say it's worth it unless you're into benchmarking.

Oh dear

You are attempting to move the goalposts so you don't lose a pointless argument that was never part of my original assertion.

I am not referring to any overclocking silicone lottery in my assertion that voltage control is better than no voltage control. The reason I brought up the silicone lottery was to dispute your assertion that a 7950 with 7970 PCB = better. Now you are stating that "theoretically, all things being equal it's better", which I already proved wrong. So all things being equal does not again mean 7970 PCB = better.

MSI TF3 (7950 PCB) 70% Asic - Max stable OC (1210/1700)
VTX3D X-Edition 7950 (7970 8+6 pin PCB) 89% Asic - Max stable OC (1175/1450)

You seem to like theoretical scanarios, so here is one for you. Which card is the best and why?

GB WF 7950 voltage locked at 1.25 volts clocked to 1100/1500.
MSI TF3 7950 voltage unlocked at 1.13 volts clocked to 1100/1500.

Pleasy try to understand my only reason for proclaiming the 7950 TF3 superior is because it has voltage control and the WF 7950 does not. As such the 7950 TF3 is not limited to run at 1.25v in 3D and will therfore run cooler because lower voltage can be used.

 

[Rusty0611]

Oh dear

You are attempting to move the goalposts so you don't lose a pointless argument that was never part of my original assertion.

Tad hypocritical.

I am not referring to any overclocking silicone lottery in my assertion that voltage control is better than no voltage control. .

But the GB WF 3x HD7950 DOES have voltage control hence why I picked up on your comment in the first place and made the argument than the MSI TFIII would only be better if it was on the 7970 PCB. Implicit within this argument was of course silicon lottery permitting. The HD7970 DOESN'T have control but the HD7950 DOES.

The reason I brought up the silicone lottery was to dispute your assertion that a 7950 with 7970 PCB = better. Now you are stating that "theoretically, all things being equal it's better", which I already proved wrong. So all things being equal does not again mean 7970 PCB = better.

LOL but you didn't prove it wrong as you can't prove that your chips have identical silicon quality therefore this point just doesn't mean anything. The GPUs on the next cards up PCB are generally better. The point about the lottery was that a good PCB won't make a stinking chip become decent. But if you get a good GPU and it's on the 7970 PCB (or the 7950 PCB if you have a 7870, for example) then they can really fly. Example would be one of my MSI TFIII V2s which did 1300/1800 for benching.

IMSI TF3 (7950 PCB) 70% Asic - Max stable OC (1210/1700)
VTX3D X-Edition 7950 (7970 8+6 pin PCB) 89% Asic - Max stable OC (1175/1450)

ASIC not directly correlative to silicon quality/"overclockability".

GB WF 7950 voltage locked at 1.25 volts clocked to 1100/1500.
MSI TF3 7950 voltage unlocked at 1.13 volts clocked to 1100/1500.

Pleasy try to understand my only reason for proclaiming the 7950 TF3 superior is because it has voltage control and the WF 7950 does not. As such the 7950 TF3 is not limited to run at 1.25v in 3D and will therfore run cooler because lower voltage can be used.

But the GB WF 3x not voltage locked!!

I bought one not longer than two weeks ago and it certainly has complete control on voltage. So my overclock on my two cards of 1100/1500 is with a voltage of 1148mV. Realistically I could probably get them stable on or around 1.125V but I can't be bothered to test extensively just to shave 25mV off.

 

[NightSt@lk3r]

Rev 2 GB 7950 WF3x IS voltage locked on a hardware level, it also comes on a 7970 PCB with 6+8 pin power connectors, should think yourself lucky you bought it 2 weeks ago as now its a total lottery as to whether you get a Rev 1 or Rev 2 card.

 

[ICDP]

Rev 2 GB 7950 WF3x IS voltage locked on a hardware level, it also comes on a 7970 PCB with 6+8 pin power connectors, should think yourself lucky you bought it 2 weeks ago as now its a total lottery as to whether you get a Rev 1 or Rev 2 card.

Thank you for clarifying this. I personally wouldn't recommend a card that wasn't guranteed to have unlocked voltage control. Hence my recomendation for the MSI TF3 7950.

 

[Rusty0611]

Rev 2 GB 7950 WF3x IS voltage locked on a hardware level, it also comes on a 7970 PCB with 6+8 pin power connectors, should think yourself lucky you bought it 2 weeks ago as now its a total lottery as to whether you get a Rev 1 or Rev 2 card.

Is that a boost edition one though? If you buy a non BE edition card it'll be unlocked.

Bit naughty if retailers are sending out BE cards under the guise of non BE cards.

 

[ICDP]

Tad hypocritical..

I have not once changed my postion or attempted to add caveats after the fact.

But the GB WF 3x HD7950 DOES have voltage control hence why I picked up on your comment in the first place and made the argument than the MSI TFIII would only be better if it was on the 7970 PCB. Implicit within this argument was of course silicon lottery permitting. The HD7970 DOESN'T have control but the HD7950 DOES..

You only mentioned (erroneously) that the WF 7950 was voltage unlocked in this thread after I posted my opinion. I knew that the WF 7950 was a lottery as far as getting an unlocked one. Admittedly you were working on out of date information.

LOL but you didn't prove it wrong as you can't prove that your chips have identical silicon quality therefore this point just doesn't mean anything. The GPUs on the next cards up PCB are generally better. The point about the lottery was that a good PCB won't make a stinking chip become decent. But if you get a good GPU and it's on the 7970 PCB (or the 7950 PCB if you have a 7870, for example) then they can really fly. Example would be one of my MSI TFIII V2s which did 1300/1800 for benching. .

Erm, that was my entire argument you can't start bring "if" and "buts" into it. Having a 7950 with a 7970 PCB is no guarantee of quality. We are agreeing on this point and yet you still argue. Regardless of this my entire argument is based on the fact that the WF 7950 is not guranteed to have voltage control while the MSI TF3 7950 is.

ASIC not directly correlative to silicon quality/"overclockability". .

Again that was my point. The perception that higher asic, or PCB = better is not always true. Again you seem to be arguing with me yet agreeing at the same time.

But the GB WF 3x not voltage locked!!

I bought one not longer than two weeks ago and it certainly has complete control on voltage. So my overclock on my two cards of 1100/1500 is with a voltage of 1148mV. Realistically I could probably get them stable on or around 1.125V but I can't be bothered to test extensively just to shave 25mV off.

As NightSt@lk3r confirmed, they "can" be voltage locked. My argument for better is based on the fact that currently, the MSI TF3 7950s are guranteed to have voltage control.

 

[NightSt@lk3r]

Is that a boost edition one though? If you buy a non BE edition card it'll be unlocked.

Bit naughty if retailers are sending out BE cards under the guise of non BE cards.

Not labelled as a Boost Edition no.

The first Rev1 WF3's came at 900mhz core and unlocked voltage, GB later changed the BIOS to 1000mhz core and voltage soft locked at 1.25v and could be got round by flashing the older 900mhz BIOS on, but within the last week or 2 they seem to have released a Rev2 card that has a 7970 PCB and the voltage is hard locked.

But that said id still take a Rev2 7950 WF3 over the TF3.