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AMD confirms PS4 chip rumours

Caporegime
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Yeah we will release a consumer version

http://fudzilla.com/home/item/30649-amd-confirms-ps4-chip-rumours

AMD executive John Taylor has announced that his outfit will be creating a modified version of the custom chip that it had designed for Sony's PS4.

The chip will be quite similar to Playstation 4 console chip but will not be as powerful. Taylor said the PS4 chip was the strongest APU made by AMD so far. It contains 8 x86-64 CPU cores. Moreover, the chip is capable of providing 1.84 teraflops of power and is based on the Radeon graphics engine.

He said that the PlayStation 4's home run specification of having 8GB of unified GDDR5 RAM will suffer from extensive alterations in order to play nice with standard motherboards.


The PS4 CPU cores are not the Bulldozer / Piledriver FX cores.

They are jaguar cores originally designed for low power high performance mobile chips, they are much much better (Apples to Apples)

This might be the first sign of those cores being scale up for real computers.

This will be interesting.

Example

Cinebench r11.5

Temash A6-1450 = Jaguar

Core i3 3217U @ 1.8Ghz (17w) 1.8?
A6-1450 APU @ 1.4Ghz (6w) 1.39
Core i3 2367M @ 1.4Ghz (17w) 1.34
A6-1450 APU @ 1Ghz (4w) 0.99
 
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You would have thought they could have made it of similar power if not even more powerful considering the cooling capabilities of a PC compared to a console. I guess if you overclocked it, it would provide similar performance compared to the PS4.
 
Don't understand why they won't release one at the same level.
That would easily bring 1080p gaming in an APU solution.

Having said that, it'd probably bottleneck like hell in the current PC environment.
 
Am I correct in thinking that it'll only be x32bit? If so, why the hell haven't they bothered going with a x64bit one?

x86-64 is the what is usually referred to as 64bit. It's a system AMD made to provide 64bit that was backwards compatible with 32bit, if memory serves, and it's what both Intel and AMD processors use in PCs.
 
They are x86_64 (64Bit)

What has happened here is Jaguar was designed from the ground up to be a sub 10w chip, this instead of taking an existing chip and scaling it down (like the i3)

The A6-1450 is a Tablet chip, at this point its not even meant for Laptops, i can't find the figures right now but it is tiny, about half the size of the 17w Core i3 which is actually a low end Ultra Book chip.

So the question is how far can this architecture be scaled up? As it stands it has 250% the performance per watt of the i3.

It will be scaled up for Laptops, it has been scaled up for the PS4, what i want to know is by how much? How good is it on whatever this scale is? how much can it be scaled up? will it replace the FX chips and give Intel some real competition. perhaps even a headache?
 
This will be interesting.

Example

Cinebench r11.5

Temash A6-1450 = Jaguar

Core i3 3217U @ 1.8Ghz (17w) 1.8?
A6-1450 APU @ 1.4Ghz (6w) 1.39
Core i3 2367M @ 1.4Ghz (17w) 1.34
A6-1450 APU @ 1Ghz (4w) 0.99

Wait, so a quad core Jaguar is "clock for clock" marginally faster than 2C4T Sandy bridge? I don't think that's the best example to use really as going off that an 8 core Jaguar will fall short of 3770K performance...

I think we should hold off on making any assumptions until we actually see the CPU thats going in the PS4.
 
Wait, so a quad core Jaguar is "clock for clock" marginally faster than 2C4T Sandy bridge? I don't think that's the best example to use really as going off that an 8 core Jaguar will fall short of 3770K performance...

I think we should hold off on making any assumptions until we actually see the CPU thats going in the PS4.

Its already well known that the PS4 has 8 Jaguar cores.

You need to look at the Key point here, look at the power envelope, at the same performance as the 2C 4T i3 it has a half the power envelope, its also half the size.
Intel's equivalent is the Atom, also in that chart, scoring half what Temash did.

That is what it is right now, the problem is that is where it is right now.

If you look above you i'm not suggesting anything, given what it is i'm asking what is possible.
 
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Its already well known that the PS4 has 8 Jaguar cores.

You need to look at the Key point here, look at the power envelope, at the same performance as the 2C 4T i3 it has a half the power envelope, its also half the size.
Intel's equivalent is the Atom, also in that chart, scoring half what Temash did.

That is what it is right now, the problem is that is where it is right now.

If you look above you i'm not suggesting anything, given what it is i'm asking what is possible.

Plus Jaguar SOCs have a 128 GCN shader IGP.
 
Wait, so a quad core Jaguar is "clock for clock" marginally faster than 2C4T Sandy bridge? I don't think that's the best example to use really as going off that an 8 core Jaguar will fall short of 3770K performance...

I think we should hold off on making any assumptions until we actually see the CPU thats going in the PS4.

The same performance at a third of the power consumption and half the die size is a very very good thing, no?
 
Without taking into account that this jaguar chip wont need to run anything as powerful (/bloated) as Windows before running an app/game - so not directly comparable with Sandybridge or anything
 
They are x86_64 (64Bit)

What has happened here is Jaguar was designed from the ground up to be a sub 10w chip, this instead of taking an existing chip and scaling it down (like the i3)

The A6-1450 is a Tablet chip, at this point its not even meant for Laptops, i can't find the figures right now but it is tiny, about half the size of the 17w Core i3 which is actually a low end Ultra Book chip.

So the question is how far can this architecture be scaled up? As it stands it has 250% the performance per watt of the i3.

It will be scaled up for Laptops, it has been scaled up for the PS4, what i want to know is by how much? How good is it on whatever this scale is? how much can it be scaled up? will it replace the FX chips and give Intel some real competition. perhaps even a headache?

Jaguar isn't built to be sub 10W in particular, the cores are simply lower power, Jaguar chips for AMD will run from Temash for tablets at 3-4W, up to 25W Kabini's in laptops, quad core, higher clocks.

Jaguar is a core, Temash is a cut down version of Kabini, it IS designed for laptops, absolutely and desktops, anywhere.

Its the bobcat replacement and has both added serious power saving to mean in its lowest power forms it will use less power(ultimate power hasn't dropped that much. The lowest power bobcat ran at 5W, this will be 3.6 or 4.6W, I forget which, but it will do FAR better at that power) but don't forget this is also from a drop from 40 to 28nm, which isn't insignificant.

Jag cores scale across 3-25W range, in a bunch of devices, and it wasn't built from the ground up for anything, its the next step of bobcat. To a fairly large degree Bobcat and Bulldozer were designed in tandem, they share architectural similarities, one is designed for high clocks, deep pipeline(those go hand in hand) and big amounts of cache. Bobcat was the low power, short pipeline, low clocks, little cache version.

Scale Jaguar up to 4Ghz and all the crap you'd need to add to feed it and make it worthwhile, and you'd have Kaveri.

AMD isn't releasing a PS4 chip, it was ALWAYS releasing Kabini and Temash, the PS4 chip is a variant of a product that was always coming. To some degree Jaguar was built with a removeable/replaceable memory bus/controller, so that it can be adapted to various projects. Some will want unified memory, a different controller, different bandwidth, some will want less bandwidth, less cores, more power saving, someone might want a super high power version with an insane bus.

Why won't we see the same chip in desktop, because the PS4 chip will likely eat a lot of power that won't be worthwhile in the applications it wants to be in. For desktop and serious desktop replacement laptops, the power saving from Kaveri to a overblown Jaguar won't be worth it. Jaguar for PC's is balanced to serve the lower end of the market, no one wants or needs the power wastage that comes from an octo core mobile chip. THey can make an 8 core Jaguar no problem, its just they wouldn't have customers for it in laptops or anywhere else. Jaguar, 3-25W, 2-4 core, Kaveri 17/25W up to 100W, 4-8/12 cores.

Atom just sucks, and Intel didn't design their high end core for low power, Haswell somewhat changes that, but ultimately the design is a higher pipeline, higher power design and sticking it in a 17W form factor means lower clocks, less balance, less good chips than designing something for 5-25W. There will be a lot of crap on a 17W Haswell that will help that chip achieve 4Ghz, but it will never go above 2Ghz. Jaguar has nothing on the core to help it go above 2-2.5Ghz, and it will never go above 2-2.5Ghz, so its wasting less die space, less power.

Jaguar/Kabini looks like it will be great for AMD, Kaveri looks like it will be very good. PS4/Xbox chips look like they'll be very good. Haswell meanwhile looks boring, Intel has atom for low power(which has improved massively but still ain't great), while Haswell at the high end adds very little and is still being shoehorned into the low power segment(though again much less badly than the old chips were).
 
Without taking into account that this jaguar chip wont need to run anything as powerful (/bloated) as Windows before running an app/game - so not directly comparable with Sandybridge or anything

It is Jaguar works under windows, those benchmarks will have been done on Win 8 tablets most likely, Jaguar cores have been shown at trade shows, its not, at all, in any way a PS4 chip that they are going to shove in devices. Jaguar is the next iteration of bobcat, it will go in all devices(and more) that bobcat went into, they added in some more features that help it be customisable so various companies can have AMD make a chip geared towards a specific segment. This is what Sony have done, Jaguar chips being used in Temash have been shown for a couple months, are miles ahead of other tablet chips(but in the high power range and high end tablets, it is way to power heavy for use in crazy long battery, useless crappy small tablets).

Benchmarks are absolutely and completely comparable with Sandy/Ivybridge stuff, Haswell should be a HUGE improvement at the low end of the spectrum for Intel, but its still not a chip designed for low power, its a chip designed for very high power, having lots of extra features added on to save as much of it as possible.


I said 2-3 years ago, with new processes and generations, arm started from pure power efficiency, but are increasing die size and power usage every generation to add more performance, a15 is MUCH bigger per core than A9. AMD and Intel are starting from the other end of the spectrum, they had very high power cores but hadn't focused on power saving at all. For 3-4 generations both companies have been going in opposite directions and are likely to meet bang in the middle.

The more interesting question is, will ARM keep going and eventually offer chips in the 50-100W bracket geared at performance and not pure power efficiency, and will Intel/AMD keep going all the way down to sub 1W chips... the answer to the later is likely yes, someone from AMD suggested they were going to try chips for phones in the future, with the efficiency of Jaguar, there isn't a huge amount of reason to believe they can't do it. Intel already have very low power Atom's but they aren't great. there has been little to no sign of ARM wanting to fight AMD/Intel in the 50W+ bracket though.
 
We need to see the GPU specs, the CPU only needs to drive a 1080p panel at 60fps.

The CPU spec looks more than good enough for that target with plenty to spare.

Personally, I am more excited about the fact that the system will have 8GB RAM :>
 
I've put the Atom Z2760 back in for reference as it gets a very decent result per watt.

(Also chucked a FX8350 and ARM cortex A15 SoCs based on how they compare against the Z2760 in general use, even though probably suck for Cinebench :p)

Cinebench r11.5

Temash A6-1450 = Jaguar

FX8350 @ 1.8Ghz (~125w?) 6.85
Cortex A15/A7 Octo core @ 1.7GHz in multi mode (6w+)??
Core i3 3217U @ 1.8Ghz (17w) 1.8?
A6-1450 APU @ 1.4Ghz (6w) 1.39
Core i3 2367M @ 1.4Ghz (17w) 1.34
Dual core cortex A15 @ 1.7Ghz (3w+) over twice as fast as Z2760
A6-1450 APU @ 1Ghz (4w) 0.99
Atom Z2760 @ 1.8Ghz (1~2w) 0.56
 
I've put the Atom Z2760 back in for reference as it gets a very decent result per watt.

(Also chucked a FX8350 and ARM cortex A15 SoCs based on how they compare against the Z2760 in general use, even though probably suck for Cinebench :p)

Depending on who is reviewing they have the Z2760 @ 1.7 to 3w

Its a 2 core 4 thread, I agree its a decent little chip.

as for the Cortex A15, I think its an unknown at this stage, I would like to see ARM enter the Desktop space, but like up scaling Jaguar there is no guarantee it would be any good.

Plus Jaguar SOCs have a 128 GCN shader IGP.

Yeah, that must be taking up half the 6w TDP, if not more. It makes the whole thing look even more promising.

Whatever happens i'm looking forward to this chip ending up in the Desktop line-up, its will be very interesting to see what the CPU performance is and what the power consumption is.
 
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