Issue with old employer

Pho

Pho

Pho

Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
9,337
Location
Derbyshire
Hello,

I was wondering what other people's input on this situation is before it turns nasty :D.

  1. I contract out to a Company A for ~2 years (giving them a good rate, and they know it).
  2. After this period I'm offereed a full-time position with Company A, I accept.
  3. I work full-time for Company A for just under a year, until I'm offered a new job with Company B who have shares in Company A (my contract includes servicing Company A's software). I accept.
  4. I've been at Company B for just under a year now.

This is all well and good but Company A thinks I accepted that during my final month of contracting I'd agreed to be paid at my salaried rate (a difference of -~£500). I don't have any evidence of accepting this (and why would I?). My argument is that if I did I'd have sent a revised invoice, I never did and included it in my tax return. Their argument is they helped me out greatly such as when moving to Company B, but the truth is it was in their best interest; they don't have to pay me, and get my time when needed.

Company A also owed me around £5,000 for contract work for about 1.5 years after I'd moved to PAYE (partly my fault for not chasing and I knew money was a bit tight for them, but I'd sent them the invoice so it was with them). If I were to persue interest + compensation that alone would cover the £500 outstanding.

It's now getting to the point where it's awkward and I might have to bring Company B into it to try and sort it out.

So before I make a fool of myself. Who's in the right? What would you do? It's mostly the principal to be honest.

tldr; old company believes they don't owe me £500, I maintain they do, not sure how to go forward.

Cheers!
 
I would get over it. Its only £500.....

Unless you believe you have an open and shut case for the small claims court, in which case just send it, then see your working life get very difficult for it.....
 
What I would do.. go in and see them, and just say, let's get this sorted out.

I'd not be too bothered about £500 compared to £5000. Be aware that it may just have been assumed, and I would seek to clarify exactly why it is they believe you would take the lower rate? (i.e. emails/paperwork etc?)

You can either ask them so supply evidence for you agreeing to the lower rate, or negotiate a half/half failure and settle on 250 (in my mind that's fair). As long as they pay you the £5000 (ish), without soaring the relationship.

Who EXACTLY (their position) in Company A is claiming you requested the last month at a lower rate?
 
BDEE said:
I would get over it. Its only £500.....

Unless you believe you have an open and shut case for the small claims court, in which case just send it, then see your working life get very difficult for it.....
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£500 was still x days worth of my time though. I gave them hours of un-paid time which is why I'm annoyed they won't do the good thing and pay it as a gesture of good will.

I can't see how I'd lose to be honest but as you say, it would make my life pretty difficult. I imagine it'd get sorted one way of another by my current employer before it got to that stage anyway, but I'd need to ask. I'm avoiding bringing it up so as to not hurt the companies relationship with each other.


Scougar said:
What I would do.. go in and see them, and just say, let's get this sorted out.

I'd not be too bothered about £500 compared to £5000. Be aware that it may just have been assumed, and I would seek to clarify exactly why it is they believe you would take the lower rate? (i.e. emails/paperwork etc?)

You can either ask them so supply evidence for you agreeing to the lower rate, or negotiate a half/half failure and settle on 250 (in my mind that's fair). As long as they pay you the £5000 (ish), without soaring the relationship.

Who EXACTLY (their position) in Company A is claiming you requested the last month at a lower rate?
Click to expand...

To be fair the £5k has been paid but it was just the time it took them to sort it out without evening apologising.

They claim it was a verbal conversation, which I don't remember. Certainly there's no email evidence as I've kept all of mine and there's nothing in there. I might mention the £250 then, cheers.

It's the managing director I'm dealing with: they're a fairly small company (Company B is far far bigger).


It's all hassle I can't be bothered with, but I know full well they're banking on this and want me to roll-over.
 
Pho said:
They claim it was a verbal conversation, which I don't remember. Certainly there's no email evidence as I've kept all of mine and there's nothing in there.
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If there's no evidence of this then they can't enforce it. This is why they're usually followed up by emails and/or letters.
 
I'd be looking at your contract that you signed in case they start asking for a referral / finders fee for you going across to the other company.
 
Accounts depts look to save money all the time, and speaking from a transport background, will often not pay out without paperwork even if they know the company did the job. Unless they have evidence of your agreement, they have no grounds to withhold the money.

I'd definitely say this is a thing you need to sort out in person.
 
Is 500 worth the tension at work?

Being a gardener people have owed me money only small amounts but they swear down they dont owe me and to save the hassle and loss of work I just let it go
 
So to summarise:

1) Company A have nothing in writing to back up the claim you would work at the lower rate, so nothing to prove they don't owe you the 500 quid.
2) By not chasing up payment from when you contracted, you in effect gave them an interest fee loan of £5000 for 18 months.
3) Company A 'helped you out' when you moved to Company B. What form of 'help' precisely was that? If they want a finder's fee, they should be talking to Company B - not you.


They're taking the you-know-what and I bet they know it. What happens to them if you leave Company B - can anyone else look after the software you're currently handling.

I wouldn't drag company B into it. It's not their problem, but if you go the small-claims route, then a sit-down with whoever's in charge of you for Company B so you can get your side of the story explained first would be a wise move - otherwise Company A can be talking behind your back.
 
Dear <Company A>,

I would appreciate it if you could pay me the outstanding amount of £500 for my time working with you, of which the date and details are listed below.

<list details>

If you would like to call me to discuss this I can be contacted on 01234567890, otherwise you have my account details.

Kind regards


etc
 
Burnsy2023 said:
If there's no evidence of this then they can't enforce it. This is why they're usually followed up by emails and/or letters.
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This was what I thought.


Morba said:
I'd be looking at your contract that you signed in case they start asking for a referral / finders fee for you going across to the other company.
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I'll check but I very much doubt they'll do that. It was in their best interest (and mine) for me to move anyway.


Scougar said:
Accounts depts look to save money all the time, and speaking from a transport background, will often not pay out without paperwork even if they know the company did the job. Unless they have evidence of your agreement, they have no grounds to withhold the money.

I'd definitely say this is a thing you need to sort out in person.
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It's amazing how many people try it on, though I suppose if you don't try you don't get.

I'd rather not have to do it in person but I think you're right. Fun :).


cjgardens said:
Is 500 worth the tension at work?

Being a gardener people have owed me money only small amounts but they swear down they dont owe me and to save the hassle and loss of work I just let it go
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No I completely agree which is why I've been very reasonable about with them on this and several other things. I just don't want to be a pushover for once :).

As it happens I mentioned it to an ex-colleague (solicitier, who still works at Company A) who completely agrees with me. I don't think people see me as being in the wrong with what I'm claiming.


peterwalkley said:
So to summarise:

1) Company A have nothing in writing to back up the claim you would work at the lower rate, so nothing to prove they don't owe you the 500 quid.
2) By not chasing up payment from when you contracted, you in effect gave them an interest fee loan of £5000 for 18 months.
3) Company A 'helped you out' when you moved to Company B. What form of 'help' precisely was that? If they want a finder's fee, they should be talking to Company B - not you.


They're taking the you-know-what and I bet they know it. What happens to them if you leave Company B - can anyone else look after the software you're currently handling.

I wouldn't drag company B into it. It's not their problem, but if you go the small-claims route, then a sit-down with whoever's in charge of you for Company B so you can get your side of the story explained first would be a wise move - otherwise Company A can be talking behind your back.
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1) Yep.
2) Yep. They were paying me PAYE at this point so I gave them the benefit of the doubt (not that I mentioned this to them) it was going to be paid when they could.
3) I wasn't too sure to be honest. I assume in terms of "letting" me leave and helping the transition. But in reality it helped them out by not having to pay me.

No one else could really look after it; I wrote a large portion of the software so it would take someone else a fair amount of time to understand it and there's no developers there any more anyway.

I really want to avoid having to drag them in, but I'd assume I'd need to mention it to Company B before trying to pursue any sort of small-claims because of their interest in Company A; I'm trying to keep it the most amicable for everyone. I definitely agree I need to give them my side of the story first.
 
Speak to your current employer about it see what they think. If your job is secure go for it and get what your owed.

If it's touch and go I you just let it lie and save the hassle at work.

If you could easy move to another job if it did end up bad at work I would go for it and take it to small claims
 
Ask them to prove you made that arangement, if not you'll be claiming (court or otherwise) for it..

Whether you do or not is upto you, just turning the screw a little.
 
Jokester said:
Have they paid the £5000?
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Yep that's all sorted.


cjgardens said:
Speak to your current employer about it see what they think. If your job is secure go for it and get what your owed.

If it's touch and go I you just let it lie and save the hassle at work.

If you could easy move to another job if it did end up bad at work I would go for it and take it to small claims
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My current job is very secure, everyone's happy with what I do and it would be difficult to find someone to fill my role. I hope, anyway :).

I think the only breakdown would be between me and Company A's director if this happened - and they're on a different site and don't interface with many people at Company B anyway. Infact, I've mentioned this to a colleague at both company A and B and both seemed to come to the same conclusion as me.

But I agree, it's a fine line between the hassle and the principal.


Doomedspeed said:
Ask them to prove you made that arangement, if not you'll be claiming (court or otherwise) for it..

Whether you do or not is upto you, just turning the screw a little.
Click to expand...

We've had several lengthy emails going on for weeks where I've constantly asked for proof for this reason only to be told it was verbal. I honestly don't remember ever talking about it and my argument was always why would I agree to something not in my favour and include the full amount in the tax return.

Joy :/.
 
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Pho said:
We've had several lengthy emails going on for weeks where I've constantly asked for proof for this reason only to be told it was verbal. I honestly don't remember ever talking about it and my argument was always why would I agree to something not in my favour and include the full amount in the tax return.

Joy :/.
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Whatever happened to Innocent until proven guilty?

If they were decent people they'd give you the benefit of the doubt, if it was that important to them they'd of got it in writing.
 
I'd go for it man. To some this might "only" be £500, but to those of us out of work it's 2+ months income. And as you said, you worked for it, go for the full amount rather than letting them get away with half of it.
 
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