*** The Official Microsoft Surface Pro Thread ***

theheyes said:
I think its even simpler than that. Windows tablets aren't as cheap as android offerings nor as desirable as the iPad.
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But the price doesn't need to be the way it is.
The Dell XPS is 350 quid, but they're paying MS for the O/S license and the Office license, they even have a better SOC. So there's some obvious give for the Surface pricing.

Desirability I'd say is there, I mean I'm after any Windows tablet, but feel I'm bending myself over with any current offerings, I bet many feel the same way.
 
Martini1991 said:
Not sure how they got the hardware choices right for RT, maybe if it was priced as such, but it's not.
It's mediocre hardware with top end hardware price.
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If you see my older posts I was quite negative about performance but after a few firmware updates it really is pleasant enough. The approach they've taken doesn't seem to be working but there was always going to be a price premium with how they've made the Surface.
 
It's still a low end SOC put in devices that can be had at 130 (Acer 7" Tablet).
Turning the cheek just shows the consumers willingness to get bent over.

I'm both glad and peeved that Surface RT isn't selling well.

Besides the OS, it has absolutely no stand out specifications.

The Dell XPS 10 is both cheaper and faster, so to say MS got it right with the hardware is an absurd statement.

Sure, the performance might be pleasing now, as it was when I had a Nexus 7, but that was 160 quid.

MS probably would have been wiser to work towards a way of selling Windows RT and opening it up to other tablets, I'd buy a Nexus 7 and then spend X on Windows RT for it, bet that's make the market share grow.
 
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theheyes said:
Is that the Acer A110? Tegra3, 1GB RAM, 8GB storage?
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Indeed, 130 quid.
It's a budget product, and it's priced as such.
Build quality is pretty good though, screen is meh though.
Has Mini SD card though.

cu3ed said:
Well, im a VERY happy user of my RT.
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Can't imagine why you wouldn't be.
But that doesn't change facts, and that is, simply RT isn't selling well at all, and the reasoning is the pricing (Or, what's available for the price, as people have no problem shelling out for the Nexus 10/iPad3/4 etc)
 
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Martini1991 said:
Can't imagine why you wouldn't be.
But that doesn't change facts, and that is, simply RT isn't selling well at all, and the reasoning is the pricing (Or, what's available for the price, as people have no problem shelling out for the Nexus 10/iPad3/4 etc)
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Well then maybe look at the facts in their entirety.

We have the Surface come onto market at a VERY difficult time, just as Google gets its act together a bit better with their own Tablets and the iPad and Mini owning the market.

You have a complete new OS that is not familiar with people, a "first" for MS that have never made their own home grown developed Tablet before. Then they go on to only sell it in some VERY select areas and only via the means of their own website.

Its only a failure if you ever expected it to be a success, which im willing to bet my house that MS knew exactly what the number would be like, reception would be. Anyone who thought MS put this to market along with the PRO and was thinking MS though it would "do well" or even take a significant mindshare from users of iPad and Google need to be realistic, as most owners have been. Its a first step, a breaking of the ice, a chance to say look over here.

And in THAT respect, they have succeeded extremely well, sure theirs plenty to do, but theirs not just plenty to do with RT and the PRO, they're fine, even hardware wise it showed how wasteful other tablets are in their utilisation of Tegra3 devices, as im doing RT multitasking in ways that could never be done on Droid and iPads ( more the latter).

Now the ball lies with Win8 OS itself, as we know MS are not sitting back on that, and its only going to get better with the integration side of things.
 
Surface isn't only available on their site.
Surface RT's available in PC World and John Lewis too.

Other RT tablets aren't limited to MS's site, but they're still not selling great either.
Samsung are dropping the RT line pretty much, but they're pretty much one of the leading mobile vendors aren't they?

I somehow don't think Microsoft expected it to tank like this, I'm sure Balmer's even came out and said they're selling "Modestly" which is only PR to avoid telling it straight.

I want RT to be viable, but quite frankly unless there's products available which command the price, it won't happen, denial and wishful thinking won't change that.

EDIT : All they've done is say "Look over here, at our overpriced tablets with inferior specification", BUT IT'S GOT WINDOWS 8 ON IT (But not really, it's RT, which is confusing buyers, I've seen a few ad's on Ebay and the like as them selling due to them not realising they can't install X86 software)
 
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Martini1991 said:
Indeed, 130 quid.
It's a budget product, and it's priced as such.
Build quality is pretty good though, screen is meh though.
Has Mini SD card though.
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The XPS is a far better comparison, which like you say is 50 quid cheaper. But I don't think the value for money issue with the Surface RT is quite as extreme as made out.

I think the price to spec ratio *is* a factor, but it pales in significance next to app ecosystem and brand desirability. The iPad2 has a less than flattering spec sheet, yet at £329 for the base model doesn't attract anything like the criticism other tablets get for being supposedly low value. Same goes for the Mini. The bread and butter audience isn't going to be put off by it having a fraction of the RAM of some competitors.

What MS need to do with Windows RT is get rid of Office and push the price down as low as possible. As absurd as it sounds, an x86 version of RT wouldn't be such a bad idea either because they could justifiably cut the price and at the same time not cannibalize their normal Windows licenses. Anybody bothered enough about not being able to run desktop apps could hack it. Win-win.

They need to get that entry barrier down to within touching distance of the low end to convert some of those automatic Android purchases. As much as there isn't a range of awesome Windows tablets, there isn't anything much for the low end either. That's what's eating Windows in the tablet space at the moment. The Surface RT running Tegra3 is like a fart in a hurricane.
 
Isn't the GPU part of the iPad 2 and iPad Mini better than Tegra 3? CPU wise I can imagine it being kind of similar to the FX8/i5 situations we have now.

The iPad 2, not a great fan, but the competition wasn't what it was back then, so they could get away due to certain factors. (Which, if you see some of the backlash the iPhone 5 has taken, those factors aren't the same now)

I think the value for money issue is quite extreme, I mean seriously, compare it to the Nexus 10, in what area bar OS does the Surface RT win? You can't even say its storage space with 32GB as it's closer to the Nexus's 16GB.

I don't agree with removing Office from RT, not entirely anyway, MS can lower the price without removing Office.
 
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Martini1991 said:
Surface isn't only available on their site.
Surface RT's available in PC World and John Lewis too.

Other RT tablets aren't limited to MS's site, but they're still not selling great either.
Samsung are dropping the RT line pretty much, but they're pretty much one of the leading mobile vendors aren't they?

I somehow don't think Microsoft expected it to tank like this, I'm sure Balmer's even came out and said they're selling "Modestly" which is only PR to avoid telling it straight.

I want RT to be viable, but quite frankly unless there's products available which command the price, it won't happen, denial and wishful thinking won't change that.

EDIT : All they've done is say "Look over here, at our overpriced tablets with inferior specification", BUT IT'S GOT WINDOWS 8 ON IT (But not really, it's RT, which is confusing buyers, I've seen a few ad's on Ebay and the like as them selling due to them not realising they can't install X86 software)
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Pc world and JL have had it about a month, so not long at all.
Did Samsung even release an RT tablet?

You could also read Ballmer saying modest was to downplay anyone thinking they though it was going to make high numbers.

They didn't think it would tank in the first place, I think you are missing the point of the entire Surface exercise is about in it first ever phase, and yes, remember, this is the very first in a tablet form factor and W8 pairing for them and the other vendors.

Guess I'm not caught up in the CPU benchmark numbers game which is meaning less each cycle, but would be nice to have an ever faster user experience of course.

Yea, plenty to do, a few things I cant live without on the RT though, fully usable USB, overall build quality, and the kick stand, full office and a proper windows explorer for sorting all my files.

What they need is to get into the 7" or 8" market with aggressive pricing.
 
Samsung have the ATIV RT.
There's a bunch of RT tablets, but pricing is horrific, somewhat stupidly, they're outclassed by their X86 counter parts.
Asus's frankly abysmally priced Tegra 3 RT tablet came in at over 500 quid. They've just launched a 400 quid X86 tablet. Clovertrail, IGP is pants though.

Lenovo have an RT tablet at 750 quid, Tegra 3 again, again I can see a cheaper Clovertrail tablet from them.

I wanted a touchscreen Windows 8 device, was unimpressed with everything, so bought an Asus Vivobook, this is currently 420 quid, Ivy i3 Ultra low power, 4GB RAM and 500GB HDD 11.6" netbook, or I could pay 480 quid for a Tegra 3 and RT, what'd you think I picked?
Display is a let down, but it's a minor compromise for me.
 
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Well their was a funny backlash about Sammy saying about W8 not selling well and no one was interested, its just no one is interested in Samsung PCs and tablets as I don't find them appealing at all.
 
cu3ed said:
Well their was a funny backlash about Sammy saying about W8 not selling well and no one was interested, its just no one is interested in Samsung PCs and tablets as I don't find them appealing at all.
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Well it's not like they're lying are they? Windows 8 isn't selling well, it has slower adoption rate than Vista.
Sammy are pretty much dominating the mobile market (Definitely phones), they're the Nexus 10 manufacturer, so they're a pretty big deal.

I want to buy the Dell XPS 10, but that's pretty useless without the dock, and the redeeming feature of Office in RT pretty much requires that, but the dock costs a whopping 110 quid, and then we're 40 quid more expensive than an i3 Ivy and X86 Touchscreen Windows 8 laptop, so that's a none starter.
 
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Martini1991 said:
and then we're 40 quid more expensive than an i3 Ivy and X86 Touchscreen Windows 8 laptop, so that's a none starter.
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And this is the key issue.
I was in a PC shop the other day when I chanced upon an HP Envy X2 (Atom 2GB tablet with dock). It was sat next to an Asus ultrabook on the display. The Asus was not only £100 cheaper but was sporting an i5 chip, 4GB RAM, a touch screen and a 500GB HDD.

Now, when you put things like that in front of a customer, they are going to buy the Asus.

The pricing of Win8 tablets is all wrong. The Samsung Ativ PC Pro is over £1200. The Sony Vaio Duo is £1000 and the Surface Pro is going to be around the £700 mark. Those products can justify their prices (maybe not the Samsung) because of their good specs. The Atom devices just cant.
 
Trig said:
Anyone decided they arent going to bother with the Pro yet, I'm tired of waiting tbh...
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If it's released in the next 4 weeks I'll get one.
If not, I'll go with my original plan and get a Macbook Air or a Samsung ultrabook.
 
I'm impressed, http://m.youtube.com/user/SurfaceProGaming

Seems to run most things resonably well albeit it at low settings.

I'm going to see if my sis is willing to pick me one up from the states in April.
Although we're getting close to the possible launch of haswell, but then it's taken companies this long, there no guarnetee anything will be out in the wild for ages.
 
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