The Budget 2013 - 12:30

[Xordium]

I think this is another problem with how our society has evolved over the last 20 years, everything now needs some kind of qualification which means less and less jobs available to unskilled workers.

When I was a teenager, babysitting was something most of my [female mostly] friends did for an extra bit of pocket money, it was an unskilled job. Now though, to look after kids even for a few hours you need several NVQs, a CRB check and some bull**** certification.

You could kill unemployment over night if all unemployed people could act as child minders and look after the kids of those with long working hours but because of the above that isn't possible and the whole thing has been turned into an 'industry'.

So when you have kids are you going to:

a) Let them be looked after by Shazza who will be giving her dope selling boyfriend favours, or
b) Let them be looked after by a professional who cooks healthy meals for them and provides a structured framework, timely and precise feedback, appropriate stimulation, advice and support, recognition of potential areas of developmental delay, proof of their safety, oh jesus do I really need to go on.

 

[No1newts]

Shall we through a few more emotive sets in there too? How about the large numbers of ill-disciplined, socially inept, slum estate kids with 3rd generation unemployed parents? Parental care seems to do next to nothing there.

Not exactly sure how belittling people for the child care choices hey have made with no real knowledge of what their personal circumstances are is either all that useful or even all htat relevant to the budget.

There is no belittling involved, more genuinely interested in the debate the two of you were having and I think it threw up some valid questions.

So whilst you spend the next few minutes picking your toys up and putting them back in the pram (as long as you are at home with the kids to do so ) I suggest you read what I read correctly, and realise that the whole point of my post is actually looking at those who are successful and making something of themselves rather than those who are unemployed. You seem to suggest I was talking about the latter, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just throwing a hissy and not actually unable to read.

 

[pingwing]

"hashtag downgraded government"

Quickest way to make Labour unelectable from Miliband.

Round of applause for politics right there...

 

[RDM]

There is no belittling involved, more genuinely interested in the debate the two of you were having and I think it threw up some valid questions.

You sort of ruined the "valid questions" when you decided to use the term "unwanted career blocker". Hence my equally provocative (and ultimately just as futile) "slum estate kids with 3rd generation unemployed parents".

So no, really you weren't adding anything overly valid to the debate.

 

[estebanrey]

So when you have kids are you going to:

a) Let them be looked after by Shazza who will be giving her dope selling boyfriend favours, or
b) Let them be looked after by a professional who cooks healthy meals for them and provides a structured framework, timely and precise feedback, appropriate stimulation, advice and support, recognition of potential areas of developmental delay, proof of their safety, oh jesus do I really need to go on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dichotomy

 

[Xordium]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dichotomy

Wow, why not go all out and do a dolph and put it in Latin!

I am of course well aware of what a false dichotomy is it is the premise you have based your initial arguments on here. But the flippant point had a point, would a responsible parent leave their child with:

a) a seemingly responsible teenager who has not formal training, or
b) a professional who cooks healthy meals for them and provides a structured framework, timely and precise feedback, appropriate stimulation, advice and support, recognition of potential areas of developmental delay, proof of their safety, oh jesus do I really need to go on.

Consider I have already highlighted option b) can be found for £3.75 per hour.

 

[Xordium]

/meh double post

 

[No1newts]

You sort of ruined the "valid questions" when you decided to use the term "unwanted career blocker". Hence my equally provocative (and ultimately just as futile) "slum estate kids with 3rd generation unemployed parents".

So no, really you weren't adding anything overly valid to the debate.

Well perhaps that was an emotionally heavy point but still a valid question

 

[do_ron_ron]

I like your assumption that someone on benefits could walk into my job

You seem to be implying that anyone who is in receipt of state benefits is unqualified/inexperienced.

Why do you think that person who is unemployed, regardless of their qualifications, would not claim or receive state benefits? I know of a couple of well qualified people who have been made redundant and who at first used their savings but then were forced to claim benefits.

 

[estebanrey]

Wow, why not go all out and do a dolph and put it in Latin!

I am of course well aware of what a false dichotomy is it is the premise you have based your initial arguments on here. But the flippant point had a point, would a responsible parent leave their child with:

a) a seemingly responsible teenager who has not formal training, or
b) a professional who cooks healthy meals for them and provides a structured framework, timely and precise feedback, appropriate stimulation, advice and support, recognition of potential areas of developmental delay, proof of their safety, oh jesus do I really need to go on.

Consider I have already highlighted option b) can be found for £3.75 per hour.

£3.75 per child and if they only have one child then it has to be minimum wage by law.

But you're missing the point, sure when both are readily available and the cost is negligible then of course they'd take B. But that choice doesn't exist when you require qualifications, CRB checks etc.

At risk of sounding like an old fat (I'm only 32) in my day there was always a host of people willing to babysit for you, it was an easy way of young teenagers (again usually girls) to get an easy job to earn some extra money but if you remove that and turn it into a profession that requires qualifications and the like it removes all young people from getting that possible job experience.

I know lots of people who had baby sitters and child minders that didn't have qualifications and were doing it for a bit of cash and none of them have turned into unhealthy slobs who were touched up, they're all healthy, rational human beings. Likewise I know a few teenagers that have been brought up only using so-called "professionals" who are rude and obnoxious. Of course I'm not saying that professional child minders are bad, but they're not some 'Super Nanny' miracle workers who will have some positive and profound effect on your child either.

 

[[TW]Fox]

£3.75 per child and if they only have one child then it has to be minimum wage by law.

Surely a child minder is self employed?

 

[do_ron_ron]

Crucial? So without a stay at home parent a child will have poor social skills and ill discipline?

Parents who are working all day generally want to relax a bit in the evening. They often just dump their children in front of the TV or buy their children the latest gadget(in part to salve their conscience) Children pick up on this very quickly and will throw a tantrum or some other emotional blackmail until they get what they want. Then they come up against people who will not do what they want, usually in secondary school but sometimes in primary school. Their disruptive behaviour(a continuation of early learned behaviour) eventually comes to social work departments.

As I have mentioned before on this forum I am a teacher in a private school for pupils with emotional and behavioural difficulties. I come across a growing number of children that have grown up without the guidance and discipline of parents. The pattern is as I have described - both parents working - too tired to interact with the child - continually giving the child more or less what they want in compensation - disruption at school - Police/Social Work involvement.

The cost for a place, a boarder(the vast majority) is over £100,000 per year. I have mentioned before it would be cheaper to send these kids to Eton but of course they would never be able to fit in. The local authorities think it is cheap if we can divert these children away from a life that spirals down to more Police/Social Work/Young Offenders.

Of course not all children go down this route but from my own experience it seems to be a growing problem.

One of the other problems is that the budget cuts are forcing local authorities to cut back on sending children to these schools. They are forcing local schools to somehow fit them in(often on reduced timetables) They disrupt the classes taking teacher time away from children who do want to learn. As they are on reduced timetables(usually a morning) they have the afternoon to socialise with others in the same situation( the type that often seem to lead to greater Police/Social Work involvement.

 

[ubersonic]

It's funny that people blame Brown for the global financial crisis.

Like it would have been any different with anybody else in power, the graph shows the history quite well.

It would have still happened but it would have been nowhere near as bad from the UK's point of view, GB was told numerous times by the Torys and UKIP that he was being reckless and gambling with the country's future and low and behold the gamble failed.

 

[dowie]

So when you have kids are you going to:

a) Let them be looked after by Shazza who will be giving her dope selling boyfriend favours, or
b) Let them be looked after by a professional who cooks healthy meals for them and provides a structured framework, timely and precise feedback, appropriate stimulation, advice and support, recognition of potential areas of developmental delay, proof of their safety, oh jesus do I really need to go on.

I think in reality it will be shazza with the dope selling boyfriend who goes onto to acquire the babysitting NVQ and you'd be better off leaving the kids with a trusted neighbours' teenage daughter who's studying for her A-Levels and can exercise some common sense.

 

[jimjamuk]

So when you have kids are you going to:

a) Let them be looked after by Shazza who will be giving her dope selling boyfriend favours, or
b) Let them be looked after by a professional who cooks healthy meals for them and provides a structured framework, timely and precise feedback, appropriate stimulation, advice and support, recognition of potential areas of developmental delay, proof of their safety, oh jesus do I really need to go on.

He said babysitter not child minder

 

[SDK^]

You seem to be implying that anyone who is in receipt of state benefits is unqualified/inexperienced.

I'm not implying people on benefits have no qualifications.

Training people to do a job isn't the issue. It's behaviour and personality that is harder to change and this is what my employer would also be seeking alongside skills.
You could be fully trained, have all of the masters degrees and experience but totally not fit into the team because you don't gel with everyone else.

 

[elmarko]

It would have still happened but it would have been nowhere near as bad from the UK's point of view, GB was told numerous times by the Torys and UKIP that he was being reckless and gambling with the country's future and low and behold the gamble failed.

All political groups say that about whoever is in power & have done historically.

They are saying that about Osborne right now.

This isn't evidence that they had superior economic sense.

 

[kitch9]

Well, positive moves on Beer Tax, Income Tax threshold, and child care.

The budget as the whole is yet another failure. Osbourne continues to cling to a failed policy and now plans on trying to put fire into the housing market to drag the economy upwards despite the fact that house prices remain too high.

It remains to be seen whether the OBR's meagre prediction on growth will be met. They've really not been convincing so far. Even if they are, it merely highlights how bad Osbourne has been.

When have we ever had a chancellor worse than George?

Is it a failure compared to the rest of the eurozone?

I don't think borrowing and then spending billions on building houses then paying people to live in them for free whilst ensuring they have a spare bedroom in which to keep all their junk is going to fix this mess....

Until worldwide confidence improves borrowing even more billions as per the labour retard mindset to create demand that clearly doesn't exist I just can't see it working...

All political groups say that about whoever is in power & have done historically.

They are saying that about Osborne right now.

This isn't evidence that they had superior economic sense.

Brown was a blithering idiot who drowned in his own hype..... Selling all our gold in the middle of a boom, at the bottom of the market after telling the markets they intended to sell the gold 2 days before should give you an idea of the absolute stupidity of the opposition.

 

[atpbx]

Surely a child minder is self employed?

It kind of takes the fun out these debates if they know what they are talking about.

 

[V F]

Until worldwide confidence improves borrowing even more billions as per the labour retard mindset to create demand that clearly doesn't exist I just can't see it working...

Brown was a blithering idiot who drowned in his own hype..... Selling all our gold in the middle of a boom, at the bottom of the market after telling the markets they intended to sell the gold 2 days before should give you an idea of the absolute stupidity of the opposition.

Been lurking this thread. It's quite refreshing seeing so many insult Labour now. Unlike the past. That and the fact the amount that condemned Miliband yesterday. All he does is criticize and bring nothing productive to the table.

All I ever hear from Labour is what you can't do, nothing ever that you can do.


As others have said in this thread, how shocking the behaviour from the Commons yesterday.

It always sounds like this.

[Edit]Hehe, Balls is on Sky News at the moment whining as usual.