Help with a new system please

thumbitin

thumbitin

thumbitin

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12 Apr 2011
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Hello everyone,

Myself and my partner have moved into a new house and I have my own room to work from. I play some computer games but not as much anymore and I mainly listen to music as my entertainment.

So the question(s) is this...

I have a desktop pc that I play my music through at the moment, looking to upgrade to some decent speakers and sub as a lot of my music is dub. Would like a dedicated CD player as well, as I have heard it is worth having, instead of putting it through the PC CD drive?

There's about £500 in the pot to spend. Should I be looking at:

Amplifier - 5.1 Surround Speakers - CD Player

Amplifier- Sub - Bookshelf speakers - CD Player

or....should I just get a decent 5.1 PC based surround such as a Motiv 5 Digital? Can I hook up a dedicated CD player with this?

A couple more points: I already have a pair of B&W DM601's

Could a really good PC CD drive replace a dedicated CD player? I could also get a decent soundcard if this would make a difference? Or maybe an external DAC?

Anyway, thanks for your help!

The room is approx. 3.50m x 3.00m

Don't mind it being a second hand system either.
 
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The Beresford DACs work really well - I have one as my Soundcard/DAC for my office hifi. Would allow you to connect your PC via USB but also other things like a CD player via optical.

If you primarily listen to music rather than films I would suggest sticking with a stereo system rather than a surround system - you will get more for your money. A decent integrated amp with the Beresford TC-7530DC (I have a Caiman however I think these are out of production now :( ) and a decent budget sub like the Wharfedale SW150 would do you very well with the B&W speakers you already have!

Edit - just looked at Beresford's current DAC and it doesn't have USB in anymore :( I would recommend checking out the Caiman second hand - they really are great.
 
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Thanks for the help! Reading around it would seem that sticking with a stereo is best.

Sorry for what is probably a stupid question but I would have the following items in this order...

Computer (Source) - DAC - Amplifier - Speakers

Could I get away without the DAC if I purchased a decent soundcard? Or would it be best to have both? Or just DAC and onboard sound card?
 
If you're going to run the PC just to play music then I'd say forget about playing the disc directly. Rip it all in lossless format and use the advantage of the PC. Add XBMC and the SmartPhone app for Android/Apple and you'll get pretty slick control of the music library for playback too.

Personally I think I'd be considering a used NAD or perhaps a s/h Creek amp for around £60~£80. The room isn't big, so those DM601's are going to be hard up in the corners which isn't their favourite position. (They sound much tighter and better balanced with a couple of feet clear space behind and to the sides.) So using a sub probably makes sense in that it will filter a lot of the bass away from the B&Ws.
 
Ok, so I won't need a CD deck?

That's good news as it would just be something else to get in the way.

What amplifier and DAC would you recommend?

I had a look at the Marantz PM7200 amplifier and also the Teac Reference UDH01. Both around £200, so that would leave £100 for a sub.

Would a 5.1 system be a bad idea at a later date to upgrade? Like the.... Q ACOUSTICS2000i 5.1 speakers?
 
The thing is you have some pretty good speakers, so ideally you want the rest of the gear to be up to a similar quality. IMO £100 isn't anywhere near enough on a sub to compliment the B&W DM601's.But you've also got a limited budget, so you have to make some tough decisions about where you spend it.

Think about it as if you were building this system from scratch with no financial constraint. The current equivalent to your DM601 would be the 685 at £399. Would you partner them with a £100 sub? Probably not. You'd spend £350+ for an AV sub to add a bit of slam, or £500+ on a sub that blends well for music.

If it was me, and I was prioritising music, then I'd draw up a short list of s/h subs with high level inputs which is a speaker wire connection where the sub acts as a filter before passing through the signal to the main stereo pair. Go back and look at reviews for the main speaker and sub manufacturers to get this info. Or look through the classifieds on AV Forums and Ebay to see what fits the bill. Budget around £200 but stretch £50 for something good. You want to buy this once and not have to upgrade again later because you cut corners.

With the sub handling a good portion of the power hungry bass side of things then you don't need to go mad with the main stereo amp. Driving midrange and treble takes far less power than bass. So you can concentrate on quality rather than power and save quite a lot on the budget. 2x30W will be more than enough to bring the house down. I have a real soft spot for Creek CAS4040 amps. It may not look like much but its got it where it counts. They're a bit of an unsung hero. The mad money chases Cyrus amps and pays over the odds. Creeks change hands for around £40-£60.

So, sub for £200'ish, and amp for £60. That leave you £200 to sort out the front end.

Adding AV is tricky, only because it'll take quite a good AV amp to come anywhere near as good as the Creek for music. You're going to be looking at something that was in the £800-£1000 price bracket new for the amp. Adding the extra speakers is simpler. Go for the matching partners to your DM601's.
 
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What sub would you say is good for that sort of money? I heard KEF are good? I really know nothing about subs. I'll have a look but if you could spoon feed me some names that would be good!:p

So matching partners for the DM601s, would that mean another pair of the same? Sorry.

They are really good speakers even if they are getting on now, seem reasonably priced looking around too.
 
Raymond Lin said:
BK Gemini.
Click to expand...
Good subs... but lacking the high level output connectors. This means they can't act as a frequency filter in-line before the main speakers. They can only connect in parallel to the mains.

What thumbitin needs is a sub that divides off the bottom end of the frequency range so that the DM601's are handling only midrange and high frequencies. This way the DM601's aren't drawing as much power from the amp, and they're not dumping a load of low frequency energy right at the room boundary where they'll have to be in a smallish room.

This Kef has the right in's and out's. Here's how it would wire up.

Sub_through.jpg
 
Lucid, I've heard KEF are good, which model is that? Would like to run four speakers if possible which looks like is possible with that sub?

whoops, KEF PSW 2000.
 
No, the sub doesn't have 4 speaker outputs. Can you not see from the picture, and the diagram I went to the trouble of drawing for you?

ONE SET for the INPUT FROM THE AMPLIFIER

ONE SET for the OUTPUT TO YOUR SPEAKERS

How is that not totally and utterly clear? :confused:


Neutrik is a different way of connecting. It has one earth connection (like the black socket on speaker terminals) and two live connections (red terminals) so that one Neutrik plug connects the stereo speaker level feed from an amplifier. What it doesn't do is act as both an input and output. So it's not like the 8 speaker binding posts on that Kef. It's like 4 of them. If you wanted to connect in the way shown in my diagram then the sub would need two neutrik connectors: One for the input and the second for the output going to the stereo speakers.


I'm really puzzled. You have a tiny room - 10ft x 12ft roughly. That's barely enough breathing room for just ONE of those DM601's you say you own, let alone a pair. Now you want to run 4 speakers in that space!!! Why???? This isn't like running PC satellite speakers. The DM601's are full blown Hi-Fi speakers. They're something on a completely different scale.

You seem really confused. What are your real intentions?
 
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Thanks for diagram, apologies if I didn't study it properly.

I'm also writing an essay at the moment so my mind isn't totally on the subject of a new hi-fi system.

Would it make you feel better if I got a picture of the DM601s for you?

Ok so just the one set of speakers then would be enough.

I appreciate your help on this. Probably enough to be going on with for the moment, wouldn't want to confuse myself further.
 
TBH because the high level inputs have to use high attenuation to get back down to a line level you end up with an odd gain stage - and an extra process that pre-outs would not have. I would try and buy an amplifier with preouts and use those to power the amp for the speakers. You could also consider the BK Gemini as an option that way as well.

@ thumbitin - yes you have the correct order for the equipment :)
 
Yeah, well we're all busy. I'm building a HTPC for a client at the moment and sorting some flight details. But I've still managed to keep my eye on the ball when it comes to your request for help. :cool:

Thanks, but I don't need pictures of your speakers. I know them well enough. Maybe a bit better than you.
 
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