The 9Designs2 Music Room makeover.
- Thread starter 9designs2
- Start date
Solidedge V14, have an academic licience, it's bit old now but does straight forward jobs ok. All parts are modelled in 3D, placed in an assembly and drawings linked to all parts,... Shame it's rendering and shading is a bit limited.
Good progress 
What are your plans for the windows? I know they can be a pain (pane.. lol) sometimes. Though of some acousti-curtains? http://www.acoustic-curtains.co.uk/acoustic-curtains.html
What are your plans for the windows? I know they can be a pain (pane.. lol) sometimes. Though of some acousti-curtains? http://www.acoustic-curtains.co.uk/acoustic-curtains.html
Hope to finish off the light feature on the ceiling at the weekend....should at last have all the right bits delivered. Then stain and colour the shelf system... After a test build.
Eager to hear how the system is going to sound.
Eager to hear how the system is going to sound.
Soldato
- Joined
- 17 Jun 2010
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- London
Shouldn't the ceiling cloud be roughly halfway between the speaker and the listening position (so the two you have would be closer together)? I know there's a light fixture there though....
Those things look huge! Part and parcel of proper treatment though, at least for dealing with the lower end of things.
Those things look huge! Part and parcel of proper treatment though, at least for dealing with the lower end of things.
The ceiling panels are still bass panels as such, so need to be near boundaries rather than a first reflection point. The centre light feature is going and spot lights going in on the centre ceiling feature... CAD/Pictures to follow at the weekend.
Panels are quite large, the square tuned bass panels are the most difficult, but they need to be thick as they are tuned to 40Hz.
Away this week on hols, so progress has stopped.... But the end is in sight
Panels are quite large, the square tuned bass panels are the most difficult, but they need to be thick as they are tuned to 40Hz.
Away this week on hols, so progress has stopped.... But the end is in sight
Intriguing stuff, looking forward to seeing the final result/acoustic changes! I was going to go with GIK but their shipping is pretty henious to my loc, I think I will build some panels using this video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8C4mcleE5U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8C4mcleE5U
Aye Denmark
Did you get any time to work on the room this weekend?
I went to the DIY shop and bought a load of stuff for my build.
Yep got a bit more done..... ( and a sneaky sound test .....)
If your building panels they need to be at least twice as thick as the video to trap any bass, or they will just dampen down the upper and mids too much.
The progress...
Ceiling light feature, driven by initial idea from the G/F.... who now claims "that's not what I meant" ..... ooops but I did manage to get two extra panels with my understanding of the requirement ....LOL.... designed and partially fitted...
So concept is this......
Six spot lights..... which now with experience I've learnt just how bright these things can be...
Lucky I went for the dimming versions and set-up.
I use the room for a few bits of in door photography as well, so light is good....
Along the sides will be LED coloured strip light and remote controlled...To add some ambient light effect to the room....
Need to assemble all the bits up next and fix and wire them in...
So room is looking like this so far....
Not finished, but can start to see the effect and mood coming together.....
LED strip lights to fit to centre ceiling feature, hidden from view so just the glow comes out across the ceiling.
New carpet to be ordered (coffee/chocolate brown).....
Wall rack to colour and finish off to replace the Quadraspire table...
Now couldn't wait to get a taste of how it will sound... so dug into the cupboard and got out an old 90's integrated classic amp... The IncaTech Claymore (slightly moded) .... hooked up to my old Linn Karik CD player....
So we have a 20 year £1400 CD player into around a 25 year old £350 amp into a current spec 5K "worth" of PMC speaker !!!.....
As an old school, bit of a flat earther this is all the wrong way around...
But fun anyway.....
First impressions..... MORE bass.... you put Bass traps in, and get more ?.... well, actually that's correct.... the big lulls due to cancellations go and you should get more even correct bass.... What I didn't notice was the boom I wanted to cancel....so looking promising....this was at low volume level, and was quite subtle.... Not really had chance to try it out, plus is not the normal equipment I hear in the room....but I briefly cranked it up on heavy bass guitar solo.... and oh it just got louder and better... not louder with more problems...so I'm encouraged so far.
I'll need to tune speaker positions and perhaps play with the best panel position behind the speakers.... So plenty to keep me busy for a few more weeks.
If your building panels they need to be at least twice as thick as the video to trap any bass, or they will just dampen down the upper and mids too much.
The progress...
Ceiling light feature, driven by initial idea from the G/F.... who now claims "that's not what I meant" ..... ooops but I did manage to get two extra panels with my understanding of the requirement ....LOL.... designed and partially fitted...
So concept is this......
Six spot lights..... which now with experience I've learnt just how bright these things can be...
Lucky I went for the dimming versions and set-up. I use the room for a few bits of in door photography as well, so light is good....
Along the sides will be LED coloured strip light and remote controlled...To add some ambient light effect to the room....
Need to assemble all the bits up next and fix and wire them in...
So room is looking like this so far....
Not finished, but can start to see the effect and mood coming together.....
LED strip lights to fit to centre ceiling feature, hidden from view so just the glow comes out across the ceiling.
New carpet to be ordered (coffee/chocolate brown).....
Wall rack to colour and finish off to replace the Quadraspire table...
Now couldn't wait to get a taste of how it will sound... so dug into the cupboard and got out an old 90's integrated classic amp... The IncaTech Claymore (slightly moded) .... hooked up to my old Linn Karik CD player....
So we have a 20 year £1400 CD player into around a 25 year old £350 amp into a current spec 5K "worth" of PMC speaker !!!.....
As an old school, bit of a flat earther this is all the wrong way around...
But fun anyway.....First impressions..... MORE bass.... you put Bass traps in, and get more ?.... well, actually that's correct.... the big lulls due to cancellations go and you should get more even correct bass.... What I didn't notice was the boom I wanted to cancel....so looking promising....this was at low volume level, and was quite subtle.... Not really had chance to try it out, plus is not the normal equipment I hear in the room....but I briefly cranked it up on heavy bass guitar solo.... and oh it just got louder and better... not louder with more problems...so I'm encouraged so far.
I'll need to tune speaker positions and perhaps play with the best panel position behind the speakers.... So plenty to keep me busy for a few more weeks.
Hi 9Designs2!
Nice update, the room is looking great! Does the XTZ show improvements?
Are you planning on doing side reflections?
What thickness are your basstraps?
As the rockwool/wood comes in several thicknesses I have had to try and get the best combination for both bass and regular panels.
I have 45mm thick rockwool so it will be:
6 panels at 50 x 600 x 1000 mm
2 bass panels at 92 x 600 x 1000mm
The two bass panels will be corner mounted which I think GIK recommends doing.
Nice update, the room is looking great! Does the XTZ show improvements?
Are you planning on doing side reflections?
What thickness are your basstraps?
As the rockwool/wood comes in several thicknesses I have had to try and get the best combination for both bass and regular panels.
I have 45mm thick rockwool so it will be:
6 panels at 50 x 600 x 1000 mm
2 bass panels at 92 x 600 x 1000mm
The two bass panels will be corner mounted which I think GIK recommends doing.
Not done a new measurement yet, waiting till curtains and carpet in...
Monster bass traps are 165mm thick... The others are 125mm. All sizes are on the GIK website........ The tuned traps are 255mm boxes....
Thanks for the positive feedback guys..... Slowly getting there.
Hi all,
Bit of a status update, as this is a voyage into the unknown and none of this comes with a set of instructions I’ve had to work on a few updates and changes.
Firstly SWMBO had a loss of faith in the colour..... too vivid.... so we have toned it down a bit, so room has now been repainted...... have to agree does look better and calmer now.
Experimented with the panels, early measurement was showing I’d taken the bass resonance at the 45-50 Hz down by several dB, but still has a bass “hump”... Though the RT60 decay time is much shorter at 125Hz.
Listening backs this up, the boom and drone is much improved, notes stop much quicker and are more detailed in the bass.
The top end is largely untouched, as you would hope with only adding bad traps at this stage.
The higher the volume the more impressive the results sound...... Still using my old CDP and Integrated amp while the rack gets its final coats of varnish and paint.
It’s started to develop that ability to draw you into the room when you walk past and music is playing. So already it’s working better as a room before the full Linn kit goes back in !!....
Brings into question where you should spend your budget when investing in a decent system...... it certainly is going to mains leads and cables !
To be honest the tuned 40Hz bass trap boxes are a disappointment. They don’t seem to have done or do much, from a measurement point of view. They also came in deeper than I’d expected, so probably my mistake on the dimension.
They were taking up to much space behind the speaker, causing the speaker to be nearly touching.
Don’t really have the space in the room to pull them more forward.
So I’ve moved them to each corner of the ceiling (that didn’t go down to well with the other half ...... this makes space for the monster Bass traps to go in the corners and to add some extra panels at low level.
Did a bit of investigation work on these GIK panels..... ie I’ve had one untrimmed and been inside
..... Lets just say there’s no reason to worry about having DIY panels ........ nothing propriety inside. 
Looking online I found some interesting tools and calculators for making diffuser panels... Search for QRD (Quadratic Residue Diffuser).
I’ve designed a combined “Monster Bass trap” with QRD... One end is as the GIK, the other is a QRD, but uses the Rockwool insulation to produce the “wells”.... So I hope to get a combined effect of bass absorption and higher frequency scatter and absorption. ...... that’s my theory anyway
Waiting for some prices on Earthwool insulation material.... most stuff in the DIY shops is low density, around 35Kg/m3 so little use on low frequencies... Found the Knauf makes a range and up to around 140 Kg/m3 ......
I can also buy the fabric to cover them that matches the GIK items.
Updated room pictures to follow, perhaps when the misses has made the curtains
Slow progress, but it’s also learning on the job...... suggesting that this is the prototype for the lounge caused a few worrying looks
Bit of a status update, as this is a voyage into the unknown and none of this comes with a set of instructions I’ve had to work on a few updates and changes.
Firstly SWMBO had a loss of faith in the colour..... too vivid.... so we have toned it down a bit, so room has now been repainted...... have to agree does look better and calmer now.
Experimented with the panels, early measurement was showing I’d taken the bass resonance at the 45-50 Hz down by several dB, but still has a bass “hump”... Though the RT60 decay time is much shorter at 125Hz.
Listening backs this up, the boom and drone is much improved, notes stop much quicker and are more detailed in the bass.
The top end is largely untouched, as you would hope with only adding bad traps at this stage.
The higher the volume the more impressive the results sound...... Still using my old CDP and Integrated amp while the rack gets its final coats of varnish and paint.
It’s started to develop that ability to draw you into the room when you walk past and music is playing. So already it’s working better as a room before the full Linn kit goes back in !!....
Brings into question where you should spend your budget when investing in a decent system...... it certainly is going to mains leads and cables !
To be honest the tuned 40Hz bass trap boxes are a disappointment. They don’t seem to have done or do much, from a measurement point of view. They also came in deeper than I’d expected, so probably my mistake on the dimension.
They were taking up to much space behind the speaker, causing the speaker to be nearly touching.
Don’t really have the space in the room to pull them more forward.
So I’ve moved them to each corner of the ceiling (that didn’t go down to well with the other half
...... this makes space for the monster Bass traps to go in the corners and to add some extra panels at low level.
Did a bit of investigation work on these GIK panels..... ie I’ve had one untrimmed and been inside
..... Lets just say there’s no reason to worry about having DIY panels ........ nothing propriety inside. Looking online I found some interesting tools and calculators for making diffuser panels... Search for QRD (Quadratic Residue Diffuser).
I’ve designed a combined “Monster Bass trap” with QRD... One end is as the GIK, the other is a QRD, but uses the Rockwool insulation to produce the “wells”.... So I hope to get a combined effect of bass absorption and higher frequency scatter and absorption. ...... that’s my theory anyway
Waiting for some prices on Earthwool insulation material.... most stuff in the DIY shops is low density, around 35Kg/m3 so little use on low frequencies... Found the Knauf makes a range and up to around 140 Kg/m3 ......
I can also buy the fabric to cover them that matches the GIK items.
Updated room pictures to follow, perhaps when the misses has made the curtains
Slow progress, but it’s also learning on the job...... suggesting that this is the prototype for the lounge caused a few worrying looks
Nice update 9designs!
I can't believe you haven't been tempted to put the linn gear back in before now! Looking good, i think it will sound superb.
Thats a complicated looking bass/diffuser combo you've got going on there. Perhaps you might want to have a stab at making a regular gik style panel first?
I have now hung my DIY ceiling panels (the misses took some convincing), it was the icing on the cake soundwise.
I can't believe you haven't been tempted to put the linn gear back in before now!
Looking good, i think it will sound superb.Thats a complicated looking bass/diffuser combo you've got going on there. Perhaps you might want to have a stab at making a regular gik style panel first?
I have now hung my DIY ceiling panels (the misses took some convincing
), it was the icing on the cake soundwise.Struggling to get good finish on the MDF for the new wall shelf, so didn't want to put the Linn kit back in on the old rack.... Lesson learnt don't skimp and use MDF get either the pre veneered stuff or use marine grade faced ply.
100Kg/m3 Rockwool on order, plus 3 meters of the Cara fabric, foam backed not like the cheaper non backed stuff GIK use Should arrive next week, hope get my hybrid designed trap cut and together ready over the weekend.
Materials are coming from a different acoustic company who seemed quite interested in my design !!!!
It's all pretty easy stuff to make
100Kg/m3 Rockwool on order, plus 3 meters of the Cara fabric, foam backed not like the cheaper non backed stuff GIK use
Should arrive next week, hope get my hybrid designed trap cut and together ready over the weekend. Materials are coming from a different acoustic company who seemed quite interested in my design !!!!
It's all pretty easy stuff to make
So, after what seems an age I’m (nearly) finished....for now.... I have some detail work to do, hiding cables and finding or making a new record storage unit.... Which I want to use to treat my first reflection point better on the side wall. That said the general feel and look of the room is there now.
Feel different it certainly does..... you walk in and there is calmness and quiet sensation which is really nice. It’s not dead sounding as in an anechoic chamber sense, the treatment is more focused to lower frequencies than highs so it still sounds natural. Even conversation is more “natural”....
Still tweaking the system to match the room..... the Linn kit is back in, so need to fine tune the speaker positions and toes in etc. Plus I’m just making up some new speaker leads. Going to replace the Linn K400 with some Chord Epic Super twin Bi-Wire cable.... which I hope will work better with the PMC’s.
Enough waffle...... a few pictures......
My DIY panels...
Turned out well...... knowing what I know now.... I could have made all the panels !!!!
So the room....
Still with the old record cupboard......... always more to do !
For now I’ll leave as shown....... started decorating two other rooms already . .... will see how it sounds, re-measure and later see if there is any more to squeeze out of difficult sized room.
What I can conclude and this a point few realise (from ready various forums) treating the room is the most important part of a decent Hi-Fi system.
A treated room with a decent “budget” system in will sound better than any Hi-End set up in poor room.... and cost what ... 40K less !!!!
I’d rather listen to my old amp and kit in the new room, than the Linn kit in the old room..... and on that bomb shell .........
Feel different it certainly does..... you walk in and there is calmness and quiet sensation which is really nice. It’s not dead sounding as in an anechoic chamber sense, the treatment is more focused to lower frequencies than highs so it still sounds natural. Even conversation is more “natural”....
Still tweaking the system to match the room..... the Linn kit is back in, so need to fine tune the speaker positions and toes in etc. Plus I’m just making up some new speaker leads. Going to replace the Linn K400 with some Chord Epic Super twin Bi-Wire cable.... which I hope will work better with the PMC’s.
Enough waffle...... a few pictures......
My DIY panels...
Turned out well...... knowing what I know now.... I could have made all the panels !!!!
So the room....
Still with the old record cupboard......... always more to do !
For now I’ll leave as shown....... started decorating two other rooms already .
.... will see how it sounds, re-measure and later see if there is any more to squeeze out of difficult sized room.What I can conclude and this a point few realise (from ready various forums) treating the room is the most important part of a decent Hi-Fi system.
A treated room with a decent “budget” system in will sound better than any Hi-End set up in poor room.... and cost what ... 40K less !!!!
I’d rather listen to my old amp and kit in the new room, than the Linn kit in the old room..... and on that bomb shell .........