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Mr_Sukebe

Mr_Sukebe

Mr_Sukebe

Man of Honour
Man of Honour
Joined
23 Dec 2002
Posts
10,321
Location
London
Gotta give a bit of background first, sorry about the length of this...
I've been a Squeezebox user for a number of years now, the first one being an SB+ (SB3 on steroids), which replaced a modded Meridian 500 CD transport around 6 years ago.

A couple of years ago the SB3 was replaced with an SBT.
Last year, added a Meridian HD621 to my system, mainly to facilitate HD audio from BD into my system. Whilst it looks like just an expensive HDMI switching box, it also includes some clever voodoo from Meridian, which does a great job of cleaning up the signal and improving overall SQ.

Either way, late last year, struck me that it would be interesting to see what my system would sound like using a laptop outputing music via HDMI into the HD621. So, installed Foobar2000/wasapi and got to work. Did a GREAT job, sounding better than my SBT.
(Note: For those who believe that ALL digital data sounds the same, shake your head now, consider me a raving nutter, but please don't try waste time on this thread trying to debate it, though you're welcome to have a listen if you like)
Now, that got me thinking, so I did a lot of research into HDMI capable music streamers, some options:
- Apple TV. Big no no. Upsamples EVERYTHING to 48khz, which is a massive no no
- WDTV. Bought one, just couldn't get on with it, returned under 7 days sales regs
- Oppo 105. Sure, this is far more than just a streamer, as it's also a pretty good BD player and AV processor. However, it ain't cheap and the reality is that it doesn't sound as good as my existing Meridian processor combo. Ref it's streaming capabilties, yes they worked, but were seriously unfriendly when compared to say Squeezecentre
- Linn DS (before 9 asks). I really really rate these, but to add one would mean a complete rethink on my system, which is a VERY expensive no no
In short, was struggling.

So, started doing some reading ref the Meridian Sooloos option, which is generally STUPIDLY expensive, but is supposedly VERY wife friendly. After digging around, found out that they do an "all in on" style server called the MC200. Look at it an you'd think it's just a small fall factor PC (probably is), but with high quality connections, nice alloy case and a custom OS/control system.
Either way, I found a s/h unit going for what appeared to be a vaguely sensible level of cost, and picked it up today.
Looks like this:
MeridianMC200_Big.jpg


Initial thoughts:
- The pic makes it look like a cheap plastic case, as mentioned, it's actually a nice alloy unit and has weight to it. M appear to have payed genuine attention to the quality of the connectors, which don't have any flex as some cheapy consumber products
- Contains a 500GB HD, which ain't great, but I only have around 350GB of music, so will get me by for a while
- Plugged it in and it simply worked with the music already on it
- It's controlled by an Ipad app, which is VERY user friendly, and is as seamless as anything else I've seen
- Presently in the process of moving my whole music collection to it from PC
- For sound quality, has the edge over my laptop via HDMI, so is a good step up on my SBT. My understanding is that Meridian upsample and apodise the output via SPDIF, and somewhere in that lot works very well
- For absolute top quality, the MC200 can act as a server, running music via ethernet to an ID41 card sited in an 861v8 or 818 processor, which results in completely eliminating potential transfer issues that SPDIF and apparently is about as good as things get. Infact the guy I bought the MC200 from was running an 818

In summary, the easiest to use streamer I've come across, which also is a high quality digital transport.
So, happy bunny is me. Even the wife looks happy!
 
All digital data is the same though, that's the whole point of digital, it can't sound differently, but hey if spending money on placebo makes you happy then who am I to argue?
 
It looks nice. Mind if I ask what a sensible price is? Do you need to have one of these to act as a server or will any NAS do the job streaming to the ID41 card?
 
Appears to have been in the region of 2k, seems a tad expensive to me.

I see he bought second hand though
 
tom_nieto said:
It looks nice. Mind if I ask what a sensible price is? Do you need to have one of these to act as a server or will any NAS do the job streaming to the ID41 card?
Click to expand...

The Meridian solution requires that you use their servers, so the use of an existing NAS, PC or server is not an option.
In their world, I believe that there's two present options, i.e. the MD600 and the MC200, both of which can be servers. The MC200 also acts as a player with analogue and digital outputs. The MD600 requires a dedicated controller/playback device, which does include the ID40/41.

Ref whether digital signal ARE all the same or not, I'm not going to try to argue either way. All I can suggest is that you base your view on experience of having compared it, not just the science you've read somewhere.
 
Slam62 said:
Appears to have been in the region of 2k, seems a tad expensive to me.

I see he bought second hand though
Click to expand...

I personally consider £2k to be exhorbitant for what appears to be a small form factor PC with some dedicated ancillaries and a custom OS. Having said that, Olive kit also isn't cheap, and it does appear to work very well.
Let's just say that I paid under half it's original RRP, at which point, I don't consider it to be too obscene, not when you can spend that much on a decent laptop, against which it is almost certainly more "wife" friendly.
 
I feel I've failed :(... I couldn't even get you as far as Sneaky DS !!!..... "2K to be exorbitant" ..... I'll get my coat ;)
 
Broken Hope said:
Apparently where you place the server affects the sound?

http://www.hifi-advice.com/Meridian-MC200-review.html

Audiophiles really will believe anything won't they. I better get special feet for my hard drive, don't want it sounding odd..
Click to expand...

"Use its plastic/rubber feet and it will sound quite smooth, but not optimal in the bass."
Jesus. Nice to see he experimented with power cables too, wouldn't want to "under-emphasize the soundstage" or whatever by using the supplied cable.
 
9designs2 said:
I feel I've failed :(... I couldn't even get you as far as Sneaky DS !!!..... "2K to be exorbitant" ..... I'll get my coat ;)
Click to expand...

Now you know only too well that I've listened to a Klimax and several AKs, and can assure you that I gave them a lot of serious consideration.
My guess is that AK would probably have the edge over what I'm now using. However, would also require a replacement of all of my front end and the purchase of a new processor.
Unfortunately I most certainly do have to pay attention to SWMBO, who happens to rather like the Meridian approach (it IS very user friendly once configured), to the point that she didn't really mind that much about the addition of the MC200, though she did insist I ditch my valve headphone amp, ya boo sucks!

Ref the other posts of incredularity about an a certain website, can we please avoid getting into discussions on that, never helps.
 
Even plugging in the analogue out of a AKDS would cause a system upheaval ?

Looking at the review linked above, the interface looks very similar to the latest Linn control software, which is very user friendly I think now. As someone who's been in from the start I'll accept the early days had some challenging interfaces and controls, but iPad control now is sweet and partner friendly....
Then I do get granted a lot of freedom to do as I want..... Ie see my music room thread ;)
Keep us posted how you get on with the new addition and set-up.
 
My existing processor does not have a pure analogue input/output chain, ALL analogue inputs are run through an ADC, so as to allow the processor to "do it's stuff", just as it does with digital inputs. Sure, the ADC is of a high quality, but that just doesn't feel right to me in, and certainly in the context of a high end source like the Ak DS.
As such, my assumption is that I'd need to fully replace both the processor too.
Given the options, something like the Bryston SP3 is well off the menu, so my guess is that I'd go with say a legacy Classe processor (needs to have full balanced inputs), along with an Oppo 103. Add those to the costs of say a s/h Ak DS and you're still looking at an all up cost of £3500+.
Then you have the issue about potential synergy of that lot with my existing amp/speakers and the fact that it'll almost certainly sound worse with AV, which whilst of a far lower priority to me than music, is still a nice to have.
 
"Using a finger to operate the controls provides smooth bass but under-represents the vocal fidelity, whereas using one's toe disrupts the low-frequency waveforms but brings shine to the treble notes."

Something like that.
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
My existing processor does not have a pure analogue input/output chain, ALL analogue inputs are run through an ADC, so as to allow the processor to "do it's stuff", just as it does with digital inputs. Sure, the ADC is of a high quality, but that just doesn't feel right to me in, and certainly in the context of a high end source like the Ak DS.
As such, my assumption is that I'd need to fully replace both the processor too.
Given the options, something like the Bryston SP3 is well off the menu, so my guess is that I'd go with say a legacy Classe processor (needs to have full balanced inputs), along with an Oppo 103. Add those to the costs of say a s/h Ak DS and you're still looking at an all up cost of £3500+.
Then you have the issue about potential synergy of that lot with my existing amp/speakers and the fact that it'll almost certainly sound worse with AV, which whilst of a far lower priority to me than music, is still a nice to have.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'd agree, as your putting everything through the DAC then it would make no sense to digitise the analogue out of a DS....
This is the issue finding a good set up to do AV and music.... I was there a few years back with Linn Kinos, if you don't want HDMI and latest HD codec it does great.... Sadly Linn pulled out of AV......

So I've gone for a 7 series Marantz AV amp.... And plugged my old ADS into that... Sounds good, so I thought, till I put the Linn kit in the lounge while rebuilding the music room.... Hooked the Marantz pre outs to the Linn Pre etc....

Even on TV it sounds better, films more so.... But the OMG moment comes when you stream some music.... ADS+Marantz compared to the full Linn into the same speakers, in the same room was a reminded why I bought what I did.... Yes huge cost difference...... But I was up to 1am on the first night listening to loads of old favourites....just so engaging.
So in the future I will be looking for a power amp to go with the Marantz, to give it a bit help.
 
Funny you mention that, I dem'd a Marantz processor (7 series) last year as it was on a very good price. Was HDMI capable and I had hoped that being "new technology" that it would be capable of seeing off my ancient Meridian processor. Unfortunately, wasn't to be, the Meridian made it sound distinctly "OK".

For yourself, you might want to consider one of the Oppo units. I recently tried a 105 at home. For the dosh, was really good and can also act as a processor. Add in some reasonable power amps and it would be a great AV system.
 
Yep the SR7005 which use to be a £1400 AV amp was on offer for £799, did a deal on that and also took the matching top of the range UD7006 BD/Universal player, I believe I got the lot for just over a grand. It's nice kit, but even playing DTS-MA it doesn't sound as good as old Linn kit playing normal DTS off a BD, or possibly a DVD !!!..... In fairness it doesn't need to, I decided to sacrifice the lounge set-up to fund upgrades in the music room.

I was going to sell my old Akurate DS to help fund the updates, in the end kept it, having two that sync together in multi room mode is great. Use it a lot when streaming radio stations and having it on upstairs and downstairs.

I believe the Marantz "struggles" to drive my old DIY built Dynaudio speakers, hence adding a power amp should add some weight, control and finesse. For the money it isn't bad, was better than the Arcam I dem'd it against, so I'm happy with it...... If I wasn't I'd pick up a used Kisto that sell now for silly low amounts of money.
 
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