Bioshock 3 - Infinite
- Thread starter Neil79
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There should really be Paris DLC
Finished this yesterday, what a brilliant game! Like others, I didn't find the combat to be all that amazing but it wasn't bad at all, and the story and setting more than justify the high scores this is getting.
I'm a bit bugged by the ending though, the little bit after the credits...
I'm a bit bugged by the ending though, the little bit after the credits...
I want to believe that but before they drown him, the Elizabeths specifically say that it needs to be done "before the choice is made", and thus before the universe is split into the Booker/Comstock multiverses... In which case, both Comstock and Booker (and Elizabeth/Anna) would be wiped out of existence, so Booker wouldn't be able to be back in his apartment with Anna after the credits...
If they hadn't said anything about "before the choice is made" I'd be quite happy to believe that the Elizabeths drown the version of Booker who had just accepted the baptism, and that would only wipe out the Comstock universes and leave Booker and Anna to live happily ever after... Why did they have to say it's before the choice is made?!
Part of me thinks they added in the post credits part just for ambiguity and to appease those who don't like the sad ending of Booker and Elizabeth/Anna being wiped out from existence (I thought this was portrayed excellently with the musical notes chiming as each version of Elizabeth disappears, and then the final chime as the last version disappears and the screen fades to black). It seems a bit like Chuckie's glowing eyes at the end of Monkey Island 2. I think the fact the Booker doesn't actually hear or see Anna in the crib at the end makes it even more ambiguous.
If they hadn't said anything about "before the choice is made" I'd be quite happy to believe that the Elizabeths drown the version of Booker who had just accepted the baptism, and that would only wipe out the Comstock universes and leave Booker and Anna to live happily ever after... Why did they have to say it's before the choice is made?!
Part of me thinks they added in the post credits part just for ambiguity and to appease those who don't like the sad ending of Booker and Elizabeth/Anna being wiped out from existence (I thought this was portrayed excellently with the musical notes chiming as each version of Elizabeth disappears, and then the final chime as the last version disappears and the screen fades to black). It seems a bit like Chuckie's glowing eyes at the end of Monkey Island 2. I think the fact the Booker doesn't actually hear or see Anna in the crib at the end makes it even more ambiguous.
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I want to believe that but before they drown him, the Elizabeths specifically say that it needs to be done "before the choice is made", and thus before the universe is split into the Booker/Comstock multiverses... In which case, both Comstock and Booker (and Elizabeth/Anna) would be wiped out of existence, so Booker wouldn't be able to be back in his apartment with Anna after the credits...
If they hadn't said anything about "before the choice is made" I'd be quite happy to believe that the Elizabeths drown the version of Booker who had just accepted the baptism, and that would only wipe out the Comstock universes and leave Booker and Anna to live happily ever after... Why did they have to say it's before the choice is made?!
Booker can be in his apartment with Anna.
When Booker allows Elizabeth(s) to drown him at the Baptism, it prevents Comstock from ever being created, which means any timeline with him is then destroyed. Which in turn means that Booker never gave Anna away, Comstock never turned Anna into Elzabeth, Booker never went to Columbia to get her back, Booker never fought Comstock, never went to the 80's to see future Elizabeth to give young-Elizabeth the means to remove the siphon.
As such Elizabeth(s) couldn't exist to drown him creating a paradox. So all timelines are rewound back to the baptism choice. The difference this time is that Booker never accepts the baptism in any timeline.
Think of it this way, before Booker is drowned in the ending, there is a probability in every universe that Booker goes through with the baptism and becomes Comstock, thus setting into motion the events leading up to the beginning of the game. However, after Booker is drowned at the baptism the probability of Booker becoming Comstock becomes zero. However, this means that Elizabeth/Anna never existed. This creates a paradox, and a paradox cannot exist, so now in every timeline when Booker gets to the baptism there is zero probability that he goes through with it.
Thus Elizabeth(s)/Anna change a variable into a constant.
All timelines with Comstock are erased, and all timelines where Booker gives Anna away, creating Elizabeth... never happen.
Meaning that only timelines where Booker doesn't accept the baptism, and keeps Anna, exist.
Essentially the entire game never happened.
When Booker allows Elizabeth(s) to drown him at the Baptism, it prevents Comstock from ever being created, which means any timeline with him is then destroyed. Which in turn means that Booker never gave Anna away, Comstock never turned Anna into Elzabeth, Booker never went to Columbia to get her back, Booker never fought Comstock, never went to the 80's to see future Elizabeth to give young-Elizabeth the means to remove the siphon.
As such Elizabeth(s) couldn't exist to drown him creating a paradox. So all timelines are rewound back to the baptism choice. The difference this time is that Booker never accepts the baptism in any timeline.
Think of it this way, before Booker is drowned in the ending, there is a probability in every universe that Booker goes through with the baptism and becomes Comstock, thus setting into motion the events leading up to the beginning of the game. However, after Booker is drowned at the baptism the probability of Booker becoming Comstock becomes zero. However, this means that Elizabeth/Anna never existed. This creates a paradox, and a paradox cannot exist, so now in every timeline when Booker gets to the baptism there is zero probability that he goes through with it.
Thus Elizabeth(s)/Anna change a variable into a constant.
All timelines with Comstock are erased, and all timelines where Booker gives Anna away, creating Elizabeth... never happen.
Meaning that only timelines where Booker doesn't accept the baptism, and keeps Anna, exist.
Essentially the entire game never happened.
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i had to stop gaming yesterday, i cant get any further, i think the motion sickness set off the vertico, plus the girl throwing you stuff as well, there's just too much going on during combat, it makes you feel even worst.... i just had to escape the game, the trouble is the drugs to cure vertico/ motion sickness are very strong and that's what cripples you
i've deleted Bioshock from Steam
but i felt ok later on in FC3 and Borderlands 2..... just tired that's all
Thanks for that HeX, the paradox part seems to be what I was missing. I'll sleep soundly tonight knowing that Booker and Anna are safe.
There is an alternative explanation as well.
Where because the Comstock timelines always loop back to Booker being drowned, they effectively cancel out.
Yes Booker might make the choice to be baptised and become Comstock etc, but eventually those timelines are doomed as Booker will be drowned causing them to cease to exist. So all possible Comstock / Columbia / Elizabeth timelines are a closed loop that exists and don't exist at the same time.
The only timelines that can actually progress into the future are those where Booker does not get baptised.
Either way, Booker ends up with Anna.
So go with whichever makes you happiest
Where because the Comstock timelines always loop back to Booker being drowned, they effectively cancel out.
Yes Booker might make the choice to be baptised and become Comstock etc, but eventually those timelines are doomed as Booker will be drowned causing them to cease to exist. So all possible Comstock / Columbia / Elizabeth timelines are a closed loop that exists and don't exist at the same time.
The only timelines that can actually progress into the future are those where Booker does not get baptised.
Either way, Booker ends up with Anna.
So go with whichever makes you happiest
i had to stop gaming yesterday, i cant get any further, i think the motion sickness set off the vertico, plus the girl throwing you stuff as well, there's just too much going on during combat, it makes you feel even worst.... i just had to escape the game, the trouble is the drugs to cure vertico/ motion sickness are very strong and that's what cripples you
i've deleted Bioshock from Steam
but i felt ok later on in FC3 and Borderlands 2..... just tired that's all
Did you try adjusting your FOV using the INI file?
There is an alternative explanation as well.
Where because the Comstock timelines always loop back to Booker being drowned, they effectively cancel out.
Yes Booker might make the choice to be baptised and become Comstock etc, but eventually those timelines are doomed as Booker will be drowned causing them to cease to exist. So all possible Comstock / Columbia / Elizabeth timelines are a closed loop that exists and don't exist at the same time.
The only timelines that can actually progress into the future are those where Booker does not get baptised.
Either way, Booker ends up with Anna.
So go with whichever makes you happiest
Are there not also timelines where Elizabeth chooses not to drown booker though?
It doesn't matter, all those timelines spawn from that one moment.
That's why he had to die then, that's the focal point which creates the possible futures with Comstock.
If Booker dies at that moment all timelines from that point forward with Comstock in them collapse.
That's why he had to die then, that's the focal point which creates the possible futures with Comstock.
If Booker dies at that moment all timelines from that point forward with Comstock in them collapse.
There is an alternative explanation as well.
Where because the Comstock timelines always loop back to Booker being drowned, they effectively cancel out.
Yes Booker might make the choice to be baptised and become Comstock etc, but eventually those timelines are doomed as Booker will be drowned causing them to cease to exist. So all possible Comstock / Columbia / Elizabeth timelines are a closed loop that exists and don't exist at the same time.
The only timelines that can actually progress into the future are those where Booker does not get baptised.
Either way, Booker ends up with Anna.
So go with whichever makes you happiest
That's actually pretty much how I interpreted the previous explanation. Booker choosing to be baptised in any timeline will always lead to the events of the game and the eventual paradox, which cannot happen, so it's the creation of the paradox by Elizabeth drowning Booker which prevents him from becoming Comstock.
Presumably, if Elizabeth hadn't had a hand in it and Booker had drowned himself, no paradox would've been created and it would result in Booker/Comstock/Elizabeth/Anna never existing, and it was only the creation of the paradox which allowed for the non-baptised Booker to go on. Although, I suppose it still would've been a paradox as Booker would never be there if not for Elizabeth.
I'm glad they didn't spell it out too much, this is far more fun.
Presumably, if Elizabeth hadn't had a hand in it and Booker had drowned himself, no paradox would've been created and it would result in Booker/Comstock/Elizabeth/Anna never existing, and it was only the creation of the paradox which allowed for the non-baptised Booker to go on. Although, I suppose it still would've been a paradox as Booker would never be there if not for Elizabeth.
I'm glad they didn't spell it out too much, this is far more fun.
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That's actually pretty much how I interpreted the previous explanation. Booker choosing to be baptised in any timeline will always lead to the events of the game and the eventual paradox, which cannot happen, so it's the creation of the paradox by Elizabeth drowning Booker which prevents him from becoming Comstock.
I'm glad they didn't spell it out too much, this is far more fun.
Yeah you can take it as Booker never chooses baptism (much like when the Leutice's ask you 'heads or tails' and the tally shows Booker always chooses heads...), or that the times Booker does choose baptism the eventual drowning paradox cancels out that choice making it the same as if Booker never chooses baptism.
And I agree, the discussion over the ending is almost as much fun as the game
And I agree, the discussion over the ending is almost as much fun as the game
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Fov does nothing for the worst sufferers!
Not sure if i have MD never been diagnosed but I do have an inner ear inbalance issue as a I failed pressure testing at hospital. Been really bad these last four days now, nausea, light headedness since playing Bioshock.
Not impressed
Mal X, what's your steam name? Is it Mal X by any chance lol
Should I be able to play this with ultra everything in the options on a 7950, i5 2500 at 1920 res? Seems a bit jerky? Read about some sort of auto aim which you need to deactivate but beyond that it just doesn't seem very smooth???
Soldato
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- 14 Mar 2011
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I agree, but you're slightly wrong about the coin toss - Booker doesn't always choose heads - in fact on the second playthrough he chooses tails... but the coin always lands on heads. This perfectly highlights the constants/variables idea - Booker can choose heads or tails and it makes no difference (a variable) because the outcome is fixed (a constant)
Soldato
- Joined
- 14 Mar 2011
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Well having played through the game once myself, I've now been sitting watching whilst my girlfriend does her playthrough, and I'm really enjoying the new context the second time round (switching to spoiler tags 
)
)In particular I'm so surprised just how in-your-face some of the nods and hints to what's going on are... There are several parts around the Battleship bay section where Booker very clearly refers to Anna, and even calls Elizabeth it directly, and it's just sort of immediately dismissed. And not only that but just prior to making it to Monument island at the bit where Comstock addresses you directly (where all the police are told to stand down) he near enough spells out the "big reveal" exactly, mentioning how Booker gave up Anna... coupled with the early Comstock voxophones which describe it all - although wrapped up in religious sounding prattle...