Need help deciding on equipment for weight loss

[Tenzo]

A carb is a carb is a carb is a carb.

I'll opt for wholemeal where I can, but I can't resist a pot or two of sugary creme caramel. Still gets my macro juices flowing

 

[Buchanan0204]

As we discussed in your other thread in nutrition (sorry when I say nutrition I mean 'La Cuisine') - and as I alluded to earlier in this very thread - you seem to have a mixed understanding on foods that are 'good' or 'bad'.

Advising somebody (or agreeing with somebody who suggests) to 'stay away from' cereals, bread, pasta is just awful, awful advice - it presumes incompetence from the other person, and patronises them. Not only that, it is complete rubbish. It would be more helpful to suggest lifestyle changes - and a proper awareness of nutrition - rather than a blanket ban on some items.

You perpetuate the myth that there are good foods and bad foods. There are foods with different macros - neither being inherently 'bad' or 'good'. If you continue to spout this nonsense, then don't be surprised when people presume that you are not knowledgeable about the subject.

You also seem to have a fascination with brown this and brown that - why is this?

I would suggest that either your knowledge of nutrition is not as great as you make out, or you are not up to date with scientific findings and using old data and myths.

Obsessed with brown this and that haha.

Ok I'll bite...

Enlighten me. Why isn't brown better than white? Are you trying to insinuate they're all the same and everyone shouldn't bother with brown? Eat white bread, rice and pasta?

Out of curiosity... What makes you such an expert in the field? Read a few Internet articles or have you studied nutrition at college/UNI? Are you a sports nutritionist or ever been a full time athlete and had to know about this for any reason?

I skimmed his post. I don't agree with avoiding the foods mentioned, you should know that as I'm obsessed with them in the brown variety, so hardly telling him to avoid them.

No such thing as bad foods? Tell that to the person with brittle bones, diabetes and urinary infections. Of course there's good and bad food. What a stupid thing to say. Living off mars bars isn't a smart choice and will do you serious harm.

Excuse me for thinking its you who knows nothing.

 

[Skeptic]

Obsessed with brown this and that haha.

Ok I'll bite...

Enlighten me. Why isn't brown better than white? Are you trying to insinuate they're all the same and everyone shouldn't bother with brown? Eat white bread, rice and pasta?

A frequent mistake that people make is the assumption that all whole wheat products are significantly more nutritious than their white version. This is simply false. Evidence has shown that the higher phytic acid and fibre in the whole-wheat stuff can adversely affect the absorption of minerals such as iron, magnesium, zinc, and calcium.

To put this another way - the bio-availability of, say, whole-wheat pasta and regular pasta is about the same. This is also true for brown and white rice.

Evidence:

Cereals are considered an important source of nutrients both in human and animal nourishment. In this paper nutritional value of brown rice is compared to that of white rice in relation to nutrients. Results show that despite higher nutrients contents of brown rice compared to white rice, experimental data does not provide evidence that the brown rice diet is better than the diet based on white rice. Possible antinutritional factors present in brown rice have adverse effects on bioavailability of this cereal nutrients.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9302338

The effect of brown rice with low protein intake was studied in five healthy young men. Feces were weighed, the digestibility of nutrients was determined, and blood tests were made. Each subject followed a diet consisting mainly of polished rice for 14 days and one consisting mainly of brown rice for 8 days. Both diets contained 0.5 g protein per kg of body weight.

The brown rice diet had 3 times as much dietary fiber as the polished rice diet. On the brown rice diet, fecal weight increased, and apparent digestibility of energy, protein, and fat decreased, as did the absorption rates of Na, K, and P. The nitrogen balance was negative on both diets, but more negative on the brown rice diet. The phosphorus balance on the brown rice diet was significantly negative, but other minerals were not affected by the diet. The levels of cholesterol and minerals in the plasma were not significantly different on the polished rice diet and the brown rice diet. Comparing these results with data on standard protein intake we concluded that brown rice reduced protein digestibility and nitrogen balance.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2822877

Out of curiosity... What makes you such an expert in the field? Read a few Internet articles or have you studied nutrition at college/UNI? Are you a sports nutritionist or ever been a full time athlete and had to know about this for any reason?

None of the above, although I do have a science background. I don't simply buy into a lot of the stuff that I read without checking fully - in as much as is possible - the science behind it.

No such thing as bad foods? Tell that to the person with brittle bones, diabetes and urinary infections. Of course there's good and bad food. What a stupid thing to say. Living off mars bars isn't a smart choice and will do you serious harm.

Excuse me for thinking its you who knows nothing.

I'm afraid that you're moving the goalposts somewhat here to support your own position. Living off a diet of SOLELY anything is a bad move, and nobody has suggested that.

I will say it again. There is no such thing as good or bad food (or basically 'clean' or 'dirty' foods as used in other circles). No. Such. Thing.

To support your position of there being bad foods, perhaps you could list some - or perhaps list some components that might make something bad?

Come at me.

 

[icecold]

Edit: strong post! ^^

You again

It's obvious to everyone getting fats from nuts and olive oil is better than a sausage roll.

Oh and just so we are clear. I have a very in depth knowledge of nutrition that doesn't come from reading a stickie on a forum. I'm not a beginner to this. Don't feel the need to try and educate me in nutrition.

*sigh*

Well, so much for trying to make that a friendly reply to avoid confrontation.

If you don't want to learn anything then that's your business. But honestly, and I really mean this with zero competitive ego BS (despite what you apparently assume, I'm really not like that), you really don't understand some fundamentals about nutrition.

I really don't care if you think I'm trying to wind you up or be some kind of weird internet point scoring weirdo, but I'd quite like to impart useful information I know to be true. I do have a have a line of tolerance for people just being douchebags, but we'll see how this goes.

I am NOT saying that eating sausage rolls is a great idea! But I believe that understanding your diet is the best way of controlling it.


Another example: The reason why brown is not really any better

The whole idea behind brown being better is centred around 2 or three ideas.

1) Fibre.

2) Slow release of energy. Got to release those carbs slowly so you don't get hungry or have an energy crash, right?

3) Smaller insulin spike. Helps with insulin sensitivity marginally, and a smaller spike means less energy is shuttled to fat for storage.

Here are the problems.

1) Cool, but you can get it elsewhere.

2) Very easy bottom line: Under no circumstances should anyone NEED carbs drip fed into them to avoid hunger pains or massive energy crashes. If this is in fact the case, you have a serious problem with the way your body deals with energy. Without going into too much detail (unless you're going to try to make out that I'm an idiot because I'm summarising, again), your body has next to no ability to regulate its ability to burn fat. You should be able to go for many hours without a nutrient drip, take a look at some of the research behind intermittent fasting for some background reading.

3) If you really need to moderate your insulin response, you need far more intervention than just eating less insulinogenic foods.

So yes, "white" carbs aren't exactly going to help in those situations. In fact they will be exacerbating the issue. But brown won't be doing any good either. And this is without even looking at nutrient absorption issues.

 

[Buchanan0204]

Ok, I concede. You obviously know a lot more than me. I'll take all that onboard.

Come at you?

As much as I'd love to debate brown bread and mars bars with you all night. I have a girlfriend who's getting wrestless. I'm going to see to her now.

Enjoy the rest of your night and keep calm.

 

[easyrider]

Brown rice is tastier tho....

 

[Skeptic]

Ok, I concede. You obviously know a lot more than me. I'll take all that onboard.

Come at you?

As much as I'd love to debate brown bread and mars bars with you all night. I have a girlfriend who's getting wrestless. I'm going to see to her now.

Enjoy the rest of your night and keep calm.

'Come at me' is a tongue in cheek comment.

It's not about 'knowing more', just trying to move away from myth and also support people toward their goals!

Not entirely sure what the girlfriend comment is about, but have a great time.

Brown rice is tastier tho....

Then fill your boots. Personally I can't stand rice most of the time in any variety!

 

[easyrider]

Ok, I concede. You obviously know a lot more than me. I'll take all that onboard.

Come at you?

As much as I'd love to debate brown bread and mars bars with you all night. I have a girlfriend who's getting wrestless. I'm going to see to her now.

Enjoy the rest of your night and keep calm.

I value your input mate...people are talking about me in this thread as if I'm some kind of simpleton ...I mention weights to tone and I get advised to spend 300 quid on some ?

Sorry but even I know this is BS ... I wouldn't advise a gamer to spend 300quid on a gfx card when he games at 720p ....what does 300quid of weights do over 50quid in my situation?

A bike is a bike....if I spend 300 on one will I get stronger and bigger than buying a 150 quid one ?

Nope...

I have no desire to get totally ripped....I want to lose weight ...get fitter and tone up a bit..... That's it....no extreme dream body that is far from interesting or even desirable...

Every time I mention a goal or direction....it's quashed by not being serious enough or hardcore enough...

I've lost 6.5 pounds in my first week and eaten all natural foods...no alcohol and been strict...I have been running on the treadmill and feel a lot better already.

These sausage roll BS posts are quite frankly laughable...you all know it...you are just trying to prove a point.

As for brown bread v white....A brown granary loaf blows chunks over a white loaf both in taste and texture.... So why would I eat white?

One can spout that white is no worse than brown....nutritionally speaking but who cares? Brown is where it's at.

IT TASTES BETTER....SO IT BLOCKS CERTAIN NUTRIENTS.? Well I can get these from somewhere else.....

See what I did there?

 

[icecold]

I openly admitted that I was making a point with the sausage rolls. I don't think anyone was actually suggesting you stuff your face with them

At the risk of being to brief again...

"Toning" a muscle isn't a thing. You either grow it or shrink it. Visible "tone" is more to do with the amount of fat covering it.

Regardless of semantics, high reps with some cheap dumbbells will not move you towards your goal. Unless your goal happens to be getting good at doing high reps with light dumbbells...

People were suggesting more serious weights because proper resistance training does all kinds of good stuff for your body composition (bodyfat %). They are not exclusively for people people who want to grow muscle. But if you don't want to do weight, that's fine too.

Either way, you will have to tighten up your diet (which you seem to have started).

 

[easyrider]

"Toning" a muscle isn't a thing. You either grow it or shrink it. Visible "tone" is more to do with the amount of fat covering it.

Regardless of semantics, high reps with some cheap dumbbells will not move you towards your goal. Unless your goal happens to be getting good at doing high reps with light dumbbells...

Ok then..So I mean grow some muscle where my moobs are (pressups can do this no?)...Joking aside so what do I do ? Are you saying those weights wont do me any good starting out? They won't grow muscle?

People were suggesting more serious weights because proper resistance training does all kinds of good stuff for your body composition (bodyfat %). They are not exclusively for people people who want to grow muscle. But if you don't want to do weight, that's fine too.

Either way, you will have to tighten up your diet (which you seem to have started).

What do you mean by serious weights? Do 5 reps of 50kg? what?

You mention this resistance training for people who don't want to grow muscle? How does that work? If you lift weights you grow muscle no?

 

[icecold]

For ANY vague muscle gain goal, you should train in the optimum fashion to achieve this in the fastest time.

This means training like a bodybuilder. Some people have serious difficulty wrapping their heads around that, but to do otherwise would just mean wasting your time.

To be clear, you do not have to do this to lose fat. However, I would recommend it, at least for a while. It makes things easier and when you drop to low bodyfat you won't look like a collection of chicken bones.

 

[easyrider]

For ANY vague muscle gain goal, you should train in the optimum fashion to achieve this in the fastest time.

This means training like a bodybuilder. Some people have serious difficulty wrapping their heads around that, but to do otherwise would just mean wasting your time.

To be clear, you do not have to do this to lose fat. However, I would recommend it, at least for a while. It makes things easier and when you drop to low bodyfat you won't look like a collection of chicken bones.

So what weights are we talking?

 

[Psycho Sonny]

basically icecold agrees with me that 15kg dumbells are for 12 year old girls.

"I mention weights to tone and I get advised to spend 300 quid on some ?

Sorry but even I know this is BS ... I wouldn't advise a gamer to spend 300quid on a gfx card when he games at 720p ....what does 300quid of weights do over 50quid in my situation? "

seriously lol, you have no clue about weightlifting, you need to have decent equipment in order to make any gains. therefore with £50 worth of equipment you will burn a small number of calories but make negligible gains in any other respect. you would have been better off spending nothing on weights and spending another 5 minutes on the treadmill instead.


"A bike is a bike....if I spend 300 on one will I get stronger and bigger than buying a 150 quid one ?

Nope..."

you cannot compare a bike with weights, yes if you buy better weight lifting equipment, you will get stronger and bigger than if you bought crap weight lifting equipment, to think otherwise is wrong.

also if you spend £3K on a proper treadmill it is usually a lot better than a £300 one from argos, it will allow you to run faster, at an incline, last longer, etc, so i imagine a £300 bike would do a better job than a £150 one. there is a big difference in quality.

e.g. i know someone who bought a treadmill for £600-£800, i can actually run faster than the top speed on their treadmill for more than 12 minutes consecutively. therefore i cannot really train on there treadmill can i? because it is below my level, i have outgrown their cheap equipment. i need a £2K+ treadmill.

buy cheap and you buy twice, this is how it works in the fitness world. why buy something you will outgrow within a day (in response to your 15kg dumbells)?

"I have no desire to get totally ripped....I want to lose weight ...get fitter and tone up a bit..... That's it....no extreme dream body that is far from interesting or even desirable...

Every time I mention a goal or direction....it's quashed by not being serious enough or hardcore enough..."

you don't seem to understand that losing weight, getting fitter and "toning up" are easier to do when you have a range of decent equipment, you only have a treadmill.

i did say you should join a gym at the start but of course you knew better than that.

therefore the only thing we can suggest is improvements to your diet, body weight exercises or to buy decent equipment.

in fact our knowledge is wasted on you as you clearly aren't reading a lot of the responses in this thread. i was trying to save you time and money by suggesting not to buy crap dumbells, but if your convinced they will work go ahead.

seriously you need to go to a gym imo or get a PT, or even go see a PT at the gym. your knowledge is seriously lacking and i did suggest in a previous post you do some reading.

you have no knowledge on how muscle is going to help you achieve your goal quicker and better imo. even people who run are advised to do leg exercises on weight machines in order to improve power. in fact most professional sportsmen are advised to do a weights regime of some sort i would think in order to further improve their game. their is obviously a few examples that wouldn't need to like table tennis players, etc.

weightlifting with proper weights can help your posture as well as make clothes fit better, it can help you in so many ways. 15kg dumbells on the other hand are only going to improve a scrap dealers profits when you inevitably throw them out.

you have no desire to get totally ripped now, but usually peoples goals change the more and more they exercise, or a lot of people simply just quit because their desire to change was never strong enough.

you never wanted to spend money on a treadmill at the start of this thread, why the sudden change of heart? what model did you get?

 

[Psycho Sonny]

So what weights are we talking?

it depends on your own physical strength and what exercises you are going to be doing.

you could easily need 100+ kg for deadlifts or squats within 6 months of weightlifting.

i think that you think this problem can be solved by throwing money at it, are you now going to buy proper weights?

i seriously suggest you join a gym or read my official home gym guide as i have previously pointed to in another post.

 

[Buchanan0204]

For ANY vague muscle gain goal, you should train in the optimum fashion to achieve this in the fastest time.

This means training like a bodybuilder. Some people have serious difficulty wrapping their heads around that, but to do otherwise would just mean wasting your time.

To be clear, you do not have to do this to lose fat. However, I would recommend it, at least for a while. It makes things easier and when you drop to low bodyfat you won't look like a collection of chicken bones.

I LOLD at chicken bones haha.

For what it's worth, I completely agree. Argos dumbbells unfortunately won't cut the mustard. I just wouldn't bother when it comes to weights.

If you want to do weights, which as Icecold and myself have pointed out, you don't need to. Joining a gym is the only way to go really. Unless you spend a good few quid on the equipment for the house.

Nothing wrong with not wanting to join a gym. Stick to body weight exercises and save the cash. Maybe later on you'll fancy it, you might get hooked on results and want to really push yourself... Who knows! But at the moment, save your money on the argos jobs, they're really not worth it.

 

[Buchanan0204]

I openly admitted that I was making a point with the sausage rolls. I don't think anyone was actually suggesting you stuff your face with them

At the risk of being to brief again...

"Toning" a muscle isn't a thing. You either grow it or shrink it. Visible "tone" is more to do with the amount of fat covering it.

Regardless of semantics, high reps with some cheap dumbbells will not move you towards your goal. Unless your goal happens to be getting good at doing high reps with light dumbbells...

People were suggesting more serious weights because proper resistance training does all kinds of good stuff for your body composition (bodyfat %). They are not exclusively for people people who want to grow muscle. But if you don't want to do weight, that's fine too.

Either way, you will have to tighten up your diet (which you seem to have started).

Your obviously super clued up on this topic and everything you posted here is spot on (obviously)

However, we obviously have differing views on nutrition. Which is cool, a lot of people disagree on it, it's a very controversial topic and always has been. How about we just agree to disagree rather than contradicting everything I say. Easy rider can do his own research and come to his own conclusions on our advice.

Sorry if I was a bit cheeky in the previous post with the roll eyes, it was just getting tedious. For the record I'm well aware of the saturated fat myth, hence the roll eyes mainly.

I'll be getting back into a proper weights program around August and I hope you don't mind if I call upon you for some advice in this field. When I was training full time I was always just given a program and worked from it, however my needs have changed since my judo days and I'd like to make sure I'm doing the proper routines for my goals. Your obviously the man to ask.

 

[Buchanan0204]

I value your input mate...people are talking about me in this thread as if I'm some kind of simpleton ...I mention weights to tone and I get advised to spend 300 quid on some ?

Sorry but even I know this is BS ... I wouldn't advise a gamer to spend 300quid on a gfx card when he games at 720p ....what does 300quid of weights do over 50quid in my situation?

A bike is a bike....if I spend 300 on one will I get stronger and bigger than buying a 150 quid one ?

Nope...

I have no desire to get totally ripped....I want to lose weight ...get fitter and tone up a bit..... That's it....no extreme dream body that is far from interesting or even desirable...

Every time I mention a goal or direction....it's quashed by not being serious enough or hardcore enough...

I've lost 6.5 pounds in my first week and eaten all natural foods...no alcohol and been strict...I have been running on the treadmill and feel a lot better already.

These sausage roll BS posts are quite frankly laughable...you all know it...you are just trying to prove a point.

As for brown bread v white....A brown granary loaf blows chunks over a white loaf both in taste and texture.... So why would I eat white?

One can spout that white is no worse than brown....nutritionally speaking but who cares? Brown is where it's at.

IT TASTES BETTER....SO IT BLOCKS CERTAIN NUTRIENTS.? Well I can get these from somewhere else.....

See what I did there?

Your doing great. Don't change a thing. Your not a full time athlete and you shouldn't and don't need to train like one. Obviously the harder you train and better you eat the quicker you'll get results.

Just keep at it and don't sicken yourself off by doing too much. The guys on here are all into weights and training etc. your doing it as a means to an end. Which of course is fine. Don't be bullied into thinking your being pathetic or not doing your best.

Just take it easy, enjoy the process and see where you end up in a few months. Your feelings might change and you might want to start looking into developing further etc. see how it plays out.

Keep doing what your doing however and you'll definitely, look, feel and perform better in all areas of life.

As the saying goes the more you put into something, the more you get out of it.

Keep up the hard work and I look forward to hearing about it.

 

[Buchanan0204]

'Come at me' is a tongue in cheek comment.

It's not about 'knowing more', just trying to move away from myth and also support people toward their goals!

Not entirely sure what the girlfriend comment is about, but have a great time.



Then fill your boots. Personally I can't stand rice most of the time in any variety!

She was waiting on me coming off of the iPad to make us something to eat. She was getting annoyed I was taking so long. Never meant anything more by it.

Maybe if she had a wholegrain dinner she wouldn't have been so hungry!! Haha.

We both disagree with each others views. I don't want to prove myself nor am I interested in your views with the greatest of respect. I don't/won't contradict you and you do the same to me. You seem to be very aggressive and annoyed because I have different opinions to you. Big deal! Get over it. I'll continue to spout my nonsense as you say, if you don't like it... Don't read it.

For the record, my knowledge has came from being a full time junior athlete, a diploma in health, fitness and exercise and numerous sports coaching seminars where nutrition is taken seriously. Not a bunch of science articles on the net.

Again. Your obviously a very intelligent guy and everyone's allowed their own opinion. Lets allow the OP to make up his own mind on what's right and wrong.

To conclude. Lets not drag this out, were never going to agree with each other. It ends now.

 

[smit101]

Advising somebody (or agreeing with somebody who suggests) to 'stay away from' cereals, bread, pasta is just awful, awful advice

Not disagreeing with you here, but if as you say wholegrain contains high levels of phytates, which have been shown to have a binding/blocking effect on certain minerals and the refined varieties being virtually stripped of anything nutritionally useful, is it really bad advice to suggest avoidance or at least limitation of these foods?

Carbs as you know can come from many other sources which don't require ingestion of phytates or refined grains, starchy/fibrous veg, salads & fruit for instance.

Also what are your opinions on soaking sprouting & fermenting grains? processes which are said to breakdown phytates and improve digestion/bioavailability of the grain.

 

[Ultra_Extreme]

The OP is not going to succeed its written all over the first post. So many wasted words in here.