Need some advice for first home cinema setup

Shadowness

Shadowness

Shadowness

Soldato
Joined
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Location
Gloucestershire
Howdy folks,

I'll be moving into my new build house at the end of August, just have to wait for it to be built!
But I'm already thinking of my audio setup.
I know I'll be getting the Samsung F8000 TV, unless something else comes out before I move in, but of course it's silly to buy it now as the price might come down.

As for the audio, I have about £1000 to spend, but could go higher if needed.

The living room isn't huge, 4.4m x 3m.

Here's a layout of the room to help.


Now my options I'm thinking at the moment is either:

1) Get something like B&W 684 (or 683) in position A in the room only.

2) Get something like B&W 685 (book shelf speakers) in position A only.

3) Something like B&W 685 in position A and B&W 686 in position B too.

I could happily spend up to £500 for an AV receiver, I'm eyeing up a Denon 3313 for £595 at the moment.

My concern is that for this size room, 684s or equivalent would be too much, and instead a decent pair of bookshelf speakers would be more ideal. So I'm swaying more to option 2, and then later on maybe get some additional speakers in position B.

I could happily stretch to £800 or so for some floor standing speakers, but I'm worried it's a bit overkill for the room.

Any advice for this type of setup would be great :)
 
New Build lol
B&W 684 or 683 Guidelines
To begin with, the speakers should be positioned
between 1.5m (5 ft) and 3m (10 ft) apart at two
corners of an equilateral triangle completed by the
listening area at the third corner.
The speakers should be approximately
0.5m (20 in) away from the backwall
and at least 0.5m (20 in) away from any side walls.
 
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For your money I would put it towards quality front speakers and leave surround sound for later. Also whats the room like for light, and have you thought about Panasonic plasma's at all?
 
Is there any reason why you've left out a centre speaker?

But before you get to the stage of buying equipment, I think you should seriously consider getting some cables in place while the place is still a building site. Pre-wire for all foreseeable eventualities, including networking and satellite plus 2nd zone in to the kitchen, and then make some kit choices after that.

We could also do with knowing what your sources are likely to be. This is particularly important with TV viewing. The TV has Freeview and Freesat. But any PVR function built-in to the TV won't be a patch on a stand-alone recorder. Then of course there's the Sky, YouView and Virgin options.

My first thoughts: You seem torn on speakers between just a stereo pair or some sort of surround. If purely stereo then go with the 684 floorstanders. You haven't mentioned a sub so you'll need something with a bit of bottom end grunt to keep the sound balanced.

If you plan to do multichannel surround then you can think about some smaller speakers all round (685 fronts + 686 rears) but again you need some bottom end grunt too. So a sub makes sense. What would be in the back of my mind though is that the front wall is fairly small. You're likely to go for the biggest TV you can afford. Is there going to be enough space for the speakers as well?

I would keep my options open I think. The Monitor Audio Radius HD speaker range might be a useful alternative. Radius 45HD's at the rear are small and discrete and do a great job of ambience rear surround. Up front the pick of the bunch is the Radius 225HD. They are designed for wall mounting and would look good as well as sounding great either side of the TV. The speaker can also be mounted horizontally as a centre speaker. (These are priced as singles, so remember that when totting up.) Radius HDs are also available in a range of colours. Then add the sub of your choice.

Alternatively, go for the MA BX5 floor standers and mix 'n match with either the R45HD's again for rear duties or the low profile dipole surround BXFX speakers.

If you decide you can fit in conventional bookshelf speakers at the front then do have a look at the MA Bronze BX2 5.1 package. This is the full centre, fronts, dipole rears and sub for just under £1100.
 
I havent really no.

My cousin bought the S8000 Samsung TV and it's awesome, so I just thought I'd go with the newer model.

What pros would the plasmas have over the LEDs?
 
Thanks Lucid.

The area is getting Virgin cable, so I'll be going for that.

I'm probably going for a 40" TV, not too big, but it wont dominate the room either.

I'm not too bothered if it's a good stereo setup, or surround. Just something like a lot better than the TV speakers....which isn't hard to achieve I know!

Regarding the centre speaker, I wasn't really sure what it's main purpose is, if you already have two speakers up front already.

Would a 685s upfront with a sub, and 686s rears be a suitable setup?
 
Shadowness said:
Would a 685s upfront with a sub, and 686s rears be a suitable setup?
Click to expand...

685s upfront with a sub - Yes.

686s rears - IMO the jury is out. If the diagram showing the speakers hard in the corners is accurate then I think you might want to audition the speakers quite carefully. They're a little bass heavy, so putting them tight to a corner is going to make that worse. The saving grace is that you're planning on using a sub and AV amp, so there's opportunity to cut down the amount of bass those 686s receive for movies and TV viewing. Still, if you're going to spend £300 on speakers plus £50~£100 on stands or brackets then you want that £400 investment to stand up in its own right.

Shadowness said:
Regarding the centre speaker, I wasn't really sure what it's main purpose is, if you already have two speakers up front already.
Click to expand...
Someone else already mentioned the role of the centre speaker. About 70% of the sound you hear for movies comes from the centre, so they're pretty important.

You can get away with no centre but you need to really understand what's at risk if you do.

First things first. 685's are good speakers. But no matter how good the speakers it's the room and equipment set-up that can make or break the performance. I've seen lots of people spend shed loads of cash on new gear and upgrades and yet still be unhappy. Often, a more modest budget but more attention to the installation then gives a better result. The point is that running AV with no centre speaker mean you rely very heavily on the front pair to create a phantom centre image. But it also means you need to sit in the sweet spot to get the full effect. If you decide to use a centre speaker then those issues go away. There'll also be more places you can sit and still get good sound for movies.
 
Shadowness said:
I havent really no.

My cousin bought the S8000 Samsung TV and it's awesome, so I just thought I'd go with the newer model.

What pros would the plasmas have over the LEDs?
Click to expand...

I would never ever buy a tv because someone else bought one.

I would buy a tv based on research conducted by myself or by someone who I know is qualified in the field.

I have bought 2 tv's in the past year and I have got them both for half the original RRP.

First of all advantages of plasma over LED are:

Substantially cheaper to buy
Better Picture Quality
Better Motion Control
Less Input Lagg
Better Contrast
Much Better Black Levels
Longer Lasting

Disadvantages of plasma are:

Slightly Heavier
Slightly Thicker
Slightly Higher running costs
Image Retention
Cannot Be transported flat
Reflective if lighting cannot be controlled


I would also suggest that you never ever buy a "new model" you essentially get terrible value for money. I shall give you the two examples of me purchasing a tv in the past year.

Last year (mid 2012) before the world cup our living room tv decided to blow up, I was looking for a good tv and the 50" GT50 was £1400 at the time, our budget was £1000-£1500. I looked at various threads over at avforums (a dedicated forum to audio and video) and I found a lot of people raving about the 51" D8000 which was Samsung's top of the range plasma when it was launched in mid 2011, so essentially it was now a year old. The price of this plasma was now £769 (price matched at john lewis and it came with their standard 5 year guarantee and 2 sets of 3d glasses as well). I also then looked into the new model the 51" E8000 which was £1600 at the time.

So if you ranked the 3 tv's in order of PQ they would be

GT50 (2012 model) - £1400
E8000 (2012 model) - £1600
D8000 (2011 model) - £769

so why did I buy the worst one out of the lot? because essentially the D8000 was still a really really good plasma. now although the E8000 and the GT50 were better no way in hell was the E8000 £831 better and no way was the GT50 £631 better. essentially it came down to bang for buck and the 51" D8000 for £769 was a steal imo.


now fast forward to about 1 month ago when I decided it was time to upgrade my bedroom tv. i looked again at what was available and what the new plasma models where that were about to hit the market. F8500 and GT60 (2013 models) and I decided to buy the GT50 (2012 model) because now it was only £799 (price matched at john lewis) for the 50" with 5 year gaurantee and 2 x 3d glasses. the GT60 is £1500 and although a better tv, no way is it £700 better.


now if i had to buy the equivalent LED to my D8000 in time in terms of PQ, it would have cost me £2K+ that is how big the gap is in PQ between plasma and LED. so my £769 plasma would have been better than LED's at twice it's price.

same goes for mt GT50, it is better than all LED's under £2K and it cost me £799.

now we shall compare their reviews focusing on the elements which effect PQ, so we shall ignore:

Sound quality built in
Networking/DNLA/internet/audio video streaming
Features
Ease of use/menus/remote/settings
Value for money
Overall

because these have no bearing on PQ

here is a review of my samsung

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Sam...)-51-Inch-3D-Plasma-TV-Review_192/Review.html

3 - reference
5 - excellent
4 - good

and a review of my panasonic

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Pan...-50-Inch-Full-HD-3D-Plasma-TV_287/Review.html

7 - reference
5 - excellent

now here is a review of the LED F8000 the tv you are looking at

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Sam...ch-3D-LED-LCD-Smart-TV-Review_491/Review.html

2 - reference
10 - excellent

now bear in mind that the 50" GT50 I purchased is still available for around £799-£899. a 46" F8000 is £1899 and the 55" is £2499.

so my 50" GT50 for £799 has 7 reference and 5 excellent scores in the review in regard to PQ, a 46" F8000 for £1899 has 2 reference and 10 excellent ticks.

now for £1100 less you not only get a bigger tv, you get a better one.

the only thing is it will cost you £10-£30 per year more in electricity, so it will take roughly 40+ years before the LED costs less to own overall.


now i suggest you go and decide what you want to do. but either way i advise you look into BIAS lighting as well, i got a kit from ebay for £24 which works imo just as well if not better than professional £200 kits. these not only help improve PQ further, they also help prevent eye strain, eye fatigue and associated headaches, etc.

there is a lot more info over at avforums about that as well.

i have looked into an audio setup as well, and tbh judging by the fact you have no clue on PQ i take it you do not know much about SQ either, i would just recommend you buy a £200-£300 panasonic or pioneer 5.1 blu ray surround sound kit. put the spare £700 towards the mortgage or other bills.
 
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Thanks for taking the time to write that Sonny.

Just because I 'have no clue' as you eloquently put it, doesn't mean I have to buy some cheap crap to suit.

Also, I didn't just base buying an F8000 just because someone else bought one, I did a lot of reading up on the S8000, and the fact that it got pretty much 5 star reviews everywhere said a lot.
 
Shadowness said:
Thanks for taking the time to write that Sonny.

Just because I 'have no clue' as you eloquently put it, doesn't mean I have to buy some cheap crap to suit.

Also, I didn't just base buying an F8000 just because someone else bought one, I did a lot of reading up on the S8000, and the fact that it got pretty much 5 star reviews everywhere said a lot.
Click to expand...

i wouldnt trust reviews over the ones over at avforums tbh, they are the best at what they do, i think hdtvtest are another who are good but imo av are the best.

also a £200-£300 kit is not cheap crap, a £50 setup from ebay is cheap crap, imo a £200-£300 kit is more than enough for you. sure a £1K kit will be better, but with the reading i have done it suggests a/v receivers arent really worth the money.

sure if i had £1K to blow i would get an onkyo 616 for £300 then another £300 on a sub and £400 on 2 floor standing speakers. over time i would then add to this setup another 2 floor standers and then another 2. i would also add a centre speaker.

add that all up and its £1200 - 6 floor standers, £100 centre speaker, £300 sub, £300 a/v receiver.

nearly £2K which is a lot of money you could have course just use 4 floor standers and save £400 but again £1.5K is a lot of money.

to spend more on sound than picture imo is insane especially when a picture tells a thousand words.

imo a kit such as this

http://www.totaldigital.biz/index.p...ucts_id=4742&zenid=grr84cao1cth4qojui8brs7bu7

if in 2-3 years time you do not think this is adequate for your needs, stick it in the bedroom setup and buy your dream £1-2K setup
 
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