*breaking news* Boston Marathon explosions

[manic111]

I'm sure you're trolling..but here you go.

"The Russian FSB intelligence service told the FBI in 2011 about information that Tamerlan Tsarnaev was a follower of radical Islam, two law enforcement officials said Saturday"

his uncle told the FBI

"Tamerlan told him in a 2009 phone conversation that he had chosen "God's business" over work or school."

So the FSB warend the FBI about him and the FBI looked in to it and said

"The FBI said that in response, it interviewed Tamerlan Tsarnaev and relatives, and did not find any domestic or foreign terrorism activity."

So they belived what they found to be true and not the FBS. So it turns out the FBS and his uncle was right.

So to me that is a fail by the FBI. I know of english people in FL that had to leave because they forgot to fill in a line
in the immigration form but ho hum.

The only evidence in all of that is that he wanted to do God's work. Maybe he wanted to become an imam?

The Russian intelligence agencies are, of course, hugely reliable and not even slightly biased when it comes to Chechens...

 

[[TW]Fox]

I'm sure you're trolling..but here you go.

"The Russian FSB intelligence service told the FBI in 2011 about information that Tamerlan Tsarnaev was a follower of radical Islam, two law enforcement officials said Saturday"

his uncle told the FBI

"Tamerlan told him in a 2009 phone conversation that he had chosen "God's business" over work or school."

So the FSB warend the FBI about him and the FBI looked in to it and said

"The FBI said that in response, it interviewed Tamerlan Tsarnaev and relatives, and did not find any domestic or foreign terrorism activity."

So they belived what they found to be true and not the FBS. So it turns out the FBS and his uncle was right.

So to me that is a fail by the FBI. I know of english people in FL that had to leave because they forgot to fill in a line
in the immigration form but ho hum.

So your answer is 'no grounds at all' then?

None of that is grounds to permanently expel somebody from your country.

Top tip: Accusing people of trolling doesn't add strength to your argument.

 

[deuse]

The only evidence in all of that is that he wanted to do God's work. Maybe he wanted to become an imam?

The Russian intelligence agencies are, of course, hugely reliable and not even slightly biased when it comes to Chechens...

But they was right

So your answer is 'no grounds at all' then?

None of that is grounds to permanently expel somebody from your country.

Top tip: Accusing people of trolling doesn't add strength to your argument.

There is a little know federal law called "Aggravated Felonies "
The government publishes no statistics on the number of individuals it has deported under the aggravated felony law.

The FBI could have used that. It's like Boston do not carry out the death sentence but they just hand over the case
to the federal courts and they can carry out the death sentence instead.
The state law says anyone arrested should be read their Miranda rights but under federal law they do not.

The US is not like the UK where a known terrorests like Abu Qatada can stay here for over 15 years and get looked after.
In the US if they don't like you then your out, no one is going stop them.

 

[RoboCod]

There can't be disagreement between a universally accept definition of psychopathy.

From what I gathered you say all terrorists are psychopaths and simply use Islam as an excuse.

What I am saying is that Islam(any dogma) can influence normal people with no psychopathic tendencies to kill innocent people for in their mind they are fighting for good.

It would be very wrong of you to say that every person who kills an innocent person is simply a psychopath hence there's no need to look for further reason behind such actions. It is my view and experience that people are easily manipulated into murdering innocents without suffering from mental nor physical mental conditions.

Nope, I didn't say all terrorists are psychopaths.

It strikes me as a naive viewpoint "oh the religions made them do it". You must have some psychopathic tendency to be able to plant a bomb some where to blow up innocent people. I don't agree with the usual rhetoric that people are being completely brain washed and that the acceptable excuse is that of religion. Regardless of what religious teachings told them, these guys were educated in the real world and should know what is right and wrong. There is something fundamentally wrong inside you if you truly believe that killing innocent and non threatening people is gods will. There are already reports the guy was suffering from depression, so he clearly had some mental instability!

I wouldn't agree that it is easy manipulate people to kill innocents. Are you sure you really mean that? I mean surely if that were true then we'd have half the Western world blown up every week?

Interested, what is this experience you speak of?

 

[Hicks]

A little video for those like me who were listening to the scanner all day and night, wondering what was going on after they found him on the boat.

 

[Rybo89]

bit of poo came out when the logo come up in the end lol......

 

[dowie]

It strikes me as a naive viewpoint "oh the religions made them do it". You must have some psychopathic tendency to be able to plant a bomb some where to blow up innocent people. I don't agree with the usual rhetoric that people are being completely brain washed and that the acceptable excuse is that of religion.

Do you have any evidence that people who do this are usually psychopaths? Say IRA bombers, Al Quaeda peeps, suicide bombers in Iraq etc...?

How do you explain Nazi Germany? Were all the thousands of people who had fascist views preached to them leading to the killing of millions of Jews also all psychopaths?

Were RAF bomber crews who carpet bombed civilians in Dresden during WW2 psychopaths? (And before you point out the obvious 'but that was war' etc.. that's an example of the circumstances under which ordinary British people can be killers and for it to be within the bounds of our own personal ethics... if you've got a different world view (as an extremist Muslims has) then the parameters under which you'd kill are different - it doesn't require them to be mentally ill else there would be far fewer jihadis in this world)

The majority of people in the UK don't have any issue eating meat... if you condition people to believe that say Jews are sub human then its not that hard to see how mass killings of Jews can come about. Its also not hard to see how subscribing to other ideologies such as extremist Islam can lead to these sorts of things either... if they are led to believe that non-muslims are lesser humans and legitimate targets.

 

[dowie]

quick goolge on the question found this which would seem to be in line with what I've posted

http://www.lsa.umich.edu/psych/news/department/news/?id=81

Likely Suicide Bombers Include Profiles You'd Never Suspect

By: Sharon Begley, Wall Street Journal
Friday, April 04, 2003


Adjunct Professor Scott Atran's research about what makes a suicide bomber tick is featured in the April 4, 2003 Wall Street Journal. The text of Likely Suicide Bombers Include Profiles You'd Never Suspect follows:

With a suicide bombing of American troops in Iraq, the call by Syria's highest Muslim cleric for "martyrdom operations," and renewed warnings that such bombers may target the U.S. and Europe, an old quest has assumed new prominence: Getting inside the mind of a suicide terrorist.

Doing so, homeland-security experts believe, might keep people from succumbing to terror recruiters. Failing that, it would at least allow us to profile potential terrorists -- arguably a more effective defense than trying to secure the West's myriad soft targets.

But there is a formidable barrier here. Many political leaders as well as ordinary citizens believe that suicide terrorists are cowardly lunatics. As President Bush said in October, "Those who would commit suicide in their assaults on the free world are not rational."

That belief is at odds with the growing body of new research focusing on profiling and prevention. As a 1999 report to the Central Intelligence Agency concluded, "Unfortunately for profiling purposes, there does not appear to be a single terrorist personality." Moreover, it continued, "contrary to the stereotype that the terrorist is ... mentally disturbed, the terrorist is actually quite sane, although deluded" by ideology or religion.

The last century presented scientists with abundant examples of terrorism. Based on studies of groups such as Germany's Baader-Meinhof Gang, psychologists spun imaginative theories that "narcissistic injury," "frustration-aggression," grandiosity and a damaged concept of self explained heinous acts. "In the 1970s," says Clark McCauley, professor of psychology at Bryn Mawr College in Pennsylvania, "the popular idea was that terrorists must be psychopaths or sociopaths."

Since then, studies of Palestinian suicide bombers, of al Qaeda allies in Southeast Asia and of the Sept. 11 terrorists have painted a different picture. These operatives, typically men in their early 20s, came from diverse social, economic and work backgrounds. They have at least as much education as the general population where they grew up, and usually more. They are seldom fatherless, friendless, jobless or hopeless.

"These are rational people, not necessarily uneducated or impoverished," says retired Air Force Maj. Gen. Todd Stewart, director of the Program for International and Homeland Security at Ohio State University in Columbus. After all, terrorist cells need reliable killers who blend in, not mentally unstable misfits who behave unpredictably.

What, then, leads a sane individual to suicide terrorism? Scott Atran, an anthropologist and psychologist at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, and at France's National Center for Scientific Research in Paris, believes at least part of the answer lies in the famous "Milgram Experiment." In 1961 and 1962, psychologist Stanley Milgram recruited ordinary adults to, supposedly, help other volunteers learn better. When the "learner," hidden by a screen, failed to memorize word pairs quickly enough, the "teacher" was told to administer an electric shock, and to keep upping the voltage.

Prof. Milgram found that up to 65% of the adults complied with instructions to give potentially lethal shocks (labeled as 450 volts, but in fact 0). This, despite the victim's (actually, an actor's) screams and pleas. Ordinary people, it seems, can commit atrocities out of a sense of obligation to authority.

If individuals are capable of terrible things under the right circumstances, that suggests "it is not possible to 'profile' suicide terrorists: They are just like us," says Prof. Atran.

 

[ONESHOTKILL]

when he was hiding in the boat did he fire shots at the police? from what i have read the police fired loads of shots at the boat but i just cant understand why they would shoot the boat.It wasn't if anyone was in danger even if he was carrying explosives everybody was evacuated the only thing he could have done was shoot himself or blow himself up.I seen a clip on the news of a neighbour looking out his window and you could hear either multiple gunshots or those multiple bang stun grenades going off and it just seems like if it was gunshots what threat was he causing to fire randomly into a boat when they hadn't confirmed it was the suspect yet.It could have been anyone hiding ,from earlier in the police radio they said they had arrested a old guy wearing explosive vest and a deadman switch and they had called for bomb disposal experts and that turned out to be nothing so they could have easily made a mistake thinking the suspect was on this boat

 

[TheVoice]

The sheer amount of conspiracy theory nonsense going around is quite staggering, every other video on YouTube seems to think it's all an elaborate set-up. Can't really imagine what it must be like to be losing your grip on reality to such an extent that you start to believe that stuff.

 

[Nerusy]

Nope, I didn't say all terrorists are psychopaths.

It strikes me as a naive viewpoint "oh the religions made them do it". You must have some psychopathic tendency to be able to plant a bomb some where to blow up innocent people. I don't agree with the usual rhetoric that people are being completely brain washed and that the acceptable excuse is that of religion. Regardless of what religious teachings told them, these guys were educated in the real world and should know what is right and wrong. There is something fundamentally wrong inside you if you truly believe that killing innocent and non threatening people is gods will. There are already reports the guy was suffering from depression, so he clearly had some mental instability!

I wouldn't agree that it is easy manipulate people to kill innocents. Are you sure you really mean that? I mean surely if that were true then we'd have half the Western world blown up every week?

Interested, what is this experience you speak of?

There are a lot of experiments that show just how far people go, for example Milgram experiment or how normal people become violent and sadistic, such as Stanford prison experiment shows and finally, (do forgive me for having to resort to use that and please do not be that guy who has to point out godwin law) there's nazi and just how many people killed innocent prisoners during the holocaust, to say they were all suffering from mental problems is a bit far fetched.

So, not to stray too far from the point, you say religion has nothing to do with this, I say religion was and usually is a significant factor that would push a normal individual to do extraordinary things. For a dogma is a powerful tool to manipulate anybody to do anything.

Radicalisation of youth is one of the main man-power sources of extremists, youth that is going through social development, a fragile mind that is largely influenced by what they're told, especially once that religion portraits supposed innocents as sinful kafir worthy only of death. It's an old age trick to dehumanize the target and is not hard to achieve for troubled young minds who already are alienated.

 

[Freakbro]

Reports are that he is awake and answering questions through writing.

It is said he may be charged with 'Terrorism using Weapons of Mass Destruction'... Which I found a bit odd, so looked up the definition of WMD.

Unsurprisingly there is no universal definition of the word and it differs from military to civilian context. Though they all refer to nuclear, biological or chemical.

One of the criteria for the FBI is

any explosive or incendiary device, as defined in Title 18 USC, Section 921: bomb, grenade, rocket, missile, mine, or other device with a charge of more than four ounces

 

[deuse]

Reports are that he is awake and answering questions through writing.

It is said he may be charged with 'Terrorism using Weapons of Mass Destruction'... Which I found a bit odd, so looked up the definition of WMD.

Unsurprisingly there is no universal definition of the word and it differs from military to civilian context. Though they all refer to nuclear, biological or chemical.

One of the criteria for the FBI is

Like I said a page back they are going to use federal law not state law.
Reason for this is they now can put him to death.

 

[Scougar]

Reports are that he is awake and answering questions through writing.

It is said he may be charged with 'Terrorism using Weapons of Mass Destruction'... Which I found a bit odd, so looked up the definition of WMD.

Unsurprisingly there is no universal definition of the word and it differs from military to civilian context. Though they all refer to nuclear, biological or chemical.

One of the criteria for the FBI is

With respect to the dead, wounded and mourning, that was hardly a WMD. I doubt they invaded Iraq due to some IED's. It's disgusting when they abuse the law this way (if they are... so much misinformation).

He's a US Citizen so should be charged in such a manner and use of appropriate law should be a given.

 

[Scougar]

The sheer amount of conspiracy theory nonsense going around is quite staggering, every other video on YouTube seems to think it's all an elaborate set-up. Can't really imagine what it must be like to be losing your grip on reality to such an extent that you start to believe that stuff.

All you have to do to see how bonkers these guys are, is look at how they reacted, and what they put online during the incident and investigation. Basically complete and utter fallacies, that were proven to be wrong within the day. i.e. guy with legs blown off, they were claiming he's some ex-vet (wrong), Speakers just before the bomb asking people to be calm (wrong), and many other things.

 

[Soundood]

to be fair, the living brother is spotted on video, leaving the scene after the explosions, still holding his back pack, as opposed to the 'FBI' guy seems to have lost his.

 

[deuse]

to be fair, the living brother is spotted on video, leaving the scene after the explosions, still holding his back pack, as opposed to the 'FBI' guy seems to have lost his.

That's a new one. Can you link me to it please

 

[oll3h]

The sheer amount of conspiracy theory nonsense going around is quite staggering, every other video on YouTube seems to think it's all an elaborate set-up. Can't really imagine what it must be like to be losing your grip on reality to such an extent that you start to believe that stuff.

+1

 

[theleg]

no its an easy way out, spending the rest of his life, considering hes 19 theres loads of year left in a supermax with no human contact would be better.

this..a thousand times this.

I will never understand why people think the death penalty is the ultimate punishment. Its not. It lets them off with punishment completely. Rotting in prison for the rest of his life, THAT is punishment.

 

[theleg]

Wonder if they get to waterboard him once the neck is healed?

Seemingly they've used some loop hole to not require him to have a lawyer or be read his rights yet... though the loop hole AFAIK is there when there is some imminent danger and they *need* to get information from a terror suspect. Doesn't seem to be quite the case here since the other guy is dead.. and given that they're going to have to wait anyway as a result of his injuries the urgency aspect becomes slightly meh....

I'm not fussed out of any concern for the guy... he's a complete waste of skin tbh.. but they shouldn't abuse these exceptions to normal process just to play to public opinion...

Should just give him a lawyer, do it properly and above board, trial, send to death row after fairly open/shut case... or if information needed then offer life in a Super max jail....

Its not a loophole, its the public safety exception. Its quite an old thing i believe and isnt just a terrorism thing. If there is a danger to the public, the police can ask the guy questions before reading him his rights