Trans woman want to fight biological women in MMA?

[sports_brah]

"legalised woman beating"

Why does gender make a difference? We're meant to be working towards a equal society, not one where we selectively treat woman.

Last time I looked a woman was a human being. I don't like the idea of beating human beings full stop it's barbaric, but I don't agree it should be separated on gender.

 

[mattyfez]

double post

 

[mattyfez]

"legalised woman beating"

Why does gender make a difference? We're meant to be working towards a equal society, not one where we selectively treat woman.

Last time I looked a woman was a human being. I don't like the idea of beating human beings full stop it's barbaric, but I don't agree it should be separated on gender.

That's a valid point, assuming things like boxing were mixed gender. the only realistic option is to go the way of true mixed gender competitions.

Ethics aside I believe it would be unfair to do that because you would never see a female world champion boxer, unless they were taking a cocktail of hormones. And if its ok for women to take hormones then in the interest of fairness it would be ok for men, so we would effectively be back to square one. And a lot of women would get a serious beating in the process. Not exactly a good option in my book.

Gender defiantly make a difference, more so in the more violent sports.. if you look into evolution how and why genders have evolved to what they are today, that's not being sexist or anti equality, its just how it is.

 

[MooMoo444]

Ludicrous. If it's someone with a disadvantage competing with more able people then it's understandable, such as Oscar Pistorius running with full bodied sprinters..but this is the other way around. Surely it's unfair.

 

[Tefal]

Why does gender make a difference? We're meant to be working towards a equal society, not one where we selectively treat woman.

same reason weight makes a different in boxing, you wouldn't put the super heavy weight up against the phantom weight.

Men are physically much more advantaged, denying that and saying "oh but we're meant to be equal" is retarded.

if an ordinary able bodied woman beat a disabled man it would looked upon as even worse than an able bodied man beating an able bodied woman, because there the difference in strength and capability is even more.,


the average male has the capability to thoroughly destroy the average woman in a fight it's like picking o na 14 year old boy when you're 27.

but that doesn't give women an excise to hit men and expect no come back, once you start it they have eery right to use reasonable force to retaliate.

 

[Tefal]

That's a valid point, assuming things like boxing were mixed gender. the only realistic option is to go the way of true mixed gender competitions.

weight categories would make it so that women and men would hardly ever fight each other if boxing become fully mixed gender.

 

[theleg]

Does anyone in here know the exact extent of her hormone therapy? Does anyone know the physical condition of the guy before the change? Does anyone know exactly how it has affected him?

None of you are in a position to make informed comments. You know who is? The doctors who are employed by the sport and, more importantly, the licencing associations etc.

Sure, if its just a bloke in a dress then it would be dodgy. but its clearly a lot more than that and without knowing the details, its impossible to fairly comment.

 

[UncleRuckus]

To make it fair they should make it truly mixed, after all isn't it all down to skill?

As I understand it in MMA isn't it people who use different martial arts, thus they are put in the ring against people of different weights and sizes anyway?

 

[sports_brah]

same reason weight makes a different in boxing, you wouldn't put the super heavy weight up against the phantom weight.

Men are physically much more advantaged, denying that and saying "oh but we're meant to be equal" is retarded.

if an ordinary able bodied woman beat a disabled man it would looked upon as even worse than an able bodied man beating an able bodied woman, because there the difference in strength and capability is even more.,


the average male has the capability to thoroughly destroy the average woman in a fight it's like picking o na 14 year old boy when you're 27.

but that doesn't give women an excise to hit men and expect no come back, once you start it they have eery right to use reasonable force to retaliate.

But as someone already said, if it was then kept to the usual sporting of rules of differentiating through weight, then it would be less of an issue.

I would also reckon that women would enjoy the chance to compete in sports where they can gain more recognition through their skill, rather than being segregated through gender.

Personally I have no interest in football, but it always amuses/saddens me when you hear men talking about football like its a religion. Womens football though? They are incredibly disparaging.

Real equality has to start somewhere, and hopefully through such things being adopted, it will also feed into other elements of society.

 

[theleg]

and lets also not forget that the women that she fights have the choice of whether or not they fight her.

Nobody is forced to fight her. Only those who want to do so, do so.

 

[aardvark]

I'm sure he'll be very loud, fighting is very rarely a quiet thing.

However, if you believe the article and the person's claims, they have been given the okay by doctors, as the doctors apparently don't believe they have an advantage given by their background.

very odd - either the doctors were idiots or paid off. The higher strength of men vs women is a medical fact, and not due to transitory hormones.
if they want to fight then fight with the men, or start a transsexual league.

this is pretty much just a man beating up women from a biological point of view.

 

[mattyfez]

Basically, and this might seem sweeping but I believe we only have two basic options here.

Have true mixed gender competitions and legalise doping in the interest of fairness and all the issues that brings, i.e. when a new drug comes out then certain people taking it will be at a theoretical advantage until every one see starts taking the drug too.

Keep sports as separate gender, i.e what you were born as (and I'm more talking about the violent contact sports here - no ones going to care about women losing at rowing or golf because they probably wont end up in hospital with their faces smashed up).

 

[Dave M]

Ludicrous. If it's someone with a disadvantage competing with more able people then it's understandable, such as Oscar Pistorius running with full bodied sprinters..but this is the other way around. Surely it's unfair.

There's actually quite some debate about the blades disabled competitors run with giving them an unfair advantage - lets face it, able bodied runners can't choose how long their tibia is can they?

 

[mattyfez]

and lets also not forget that the women that she fights have the choice of whether or not they fight her.

Nobody is forced to fight her. Only those who want to do so, do so.

But that is fundamentally unfair, surely? in a female league they would have to fight her in order to get a title if the opponent already held the title?

 

[theleg]

very odd - either the doctors were idiots or paid off. The higher strength of men vs women is a medical fact, and not due to transitory hormones.
if they want to fight then fight with the men, or start a transsexual league.

this is pretty much just a man beating up women from a biological point of view.

Or, and maybe you might need to sit down for this, the doctors......know more than you?


On one side we have a 5'7 man who weighs 10 stone and who has no real history of sports, certainly not of fight sports. He has been on hormone therapy for 7 years...He is a very small man who doesnt have an athletic history and little experience.

On the other side you have women who have been lifting weights and been training combats sports for years..some even since they were children. Their bodies have been moulded into the best fighting shape.

We are not dealing with the average woman here.

 

[theleg]

But that is fundamentally unfair, surely? in a female league they would have to fight her in order to get a title if the opponent already held the title?

It depends on how the particular setup works. Its also worth noting that this person has only had two fights.

 

[Gilly]

To make it fair they should make it truly mixed, after all isn't it all down to skill?

As I understand it in MMA isn't it people who use different martial arts, thus they are put in the ring against people of different weights and sizes anyway?

Well it is, but if you have two highly skilled martial artists one who is massive and one who is tiny I would suggest that the weight factor is a huge benefit to the larger guy.

What if they happen to be schooled in exactly the same martial arts? The little guy would have next to no chance.

That's why there are weight categories.

 

[mattyfez]

There's actually quite some debate about the blades disabled competitors run with giving them an unfair advantage - lets face it, able bodied runners can't choose how long their tibia is can they?

Indeed it can work both ways.. so how that is to be controlled in the name of fairness, I would say it's not possible.. in the future, prosthetics will only become better, what's to stop someone with a robot arm competing in discus or javelin? how fair would that be to a person with bones in their arm rather than precision machined carbon fibre and steel cable for tendons?

 

[Tefal]

Personally I have no interest in football, but it always amuses/saddens me when you hear men talking about football like its a religion. Womens football though? They are incredibly disparaging.

there was a article about womens runners and they said (this was before all the kids were fat) at 14 the average boy started running faster than the national level girls.

if you made football mixed gender you wouldnt see any women playing (aside from the odd one in lower teams for publicity) because even the very best woman's footballer would lag far behind the mens conference players on the pitch.

 

[Dave M]

someone with lower testosterone would not only be at a physical disadvantage, but also a psychological disadvantage as they would also not be interested in things like boxing - they would be less 'eye of the tiger' and more 'eye of the (crochet) needle', therefore due to their psychological disposition they would not be interested in boxing or whatever in the first place.

Seriously?