Raising retirement age - Sustainsble solution?

No1newts

No1newts

No1newts

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Just having a think (slow day at work) that is raising the retirement age going to help things.

I understand the basic reasoning behind it, people pay in longer, retire later then get less time being paid until they die. But, we have a growing population and an economy that is not growing. If people stay in employment 10 years (or whatever) longer will we not create a problem whereby a slow economy and prior not retiring means a growing youth unemployment problem.

Surely the whole solution is based on a speculative (and hopeful) theory that the economy will just keep on growing creating new jobs people can step into. However the economy isn't growing and growth isn't going to always happen (as evidenced over recent times) even if we repatriotise a lot of manufacturing with Eastern labour prices rise manufacturing isn't people heavy like it used to be. America is finding this out at the mo, I was reading an article about a battery factory that is now producing in America again. It used to have 30-40 people per shift, now with lean and technological process it runs with 4.

So, rambled a bit but the original question is still, is raising retirement ages a good solution to use to help ease economic problems?
 
the only solution?

You get to 80, and your organic matter is recycled. blended. then thrown on a field
 
Soylent Green is People, SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!! :eek:

(Actually this is a serious issue and one that deserves more thought before I give a sensible reply. More later after I have finished work)
 
Ties into the idea of infinite growth.

It ain't going to happen.

Technology, computing equipment and robotics is getting increasingly clever. Lots of jobs will soon be completely redundant.

The solution? Who knows?
 
plus, how do all the people who do manual work continue until they are 70?

will brickies, floor layers (knackers your knees), roof tilers be able to cope working until they are 70?

at the moment i cant even afford to pay into a pension. so it looks like we will end up being old and poor. woohoo
 
To be honest the entire system need a redesign - what was useful during the booming industrial revolution is causing as many problems as it solved.

Not that it will happen, as too many select groups have too much influence & financial gain to see any real changes come into effect - meaning the west will gladly trudge into a dystopian future under the guise of "economic freedom".

I've said it before & I'll say it again - until we redesign corporations/businesses in such a way they are forced to take into account systemic risk, externalities & long term sustainability it will never happen.

Neither should it, the game is set-up in such a way that it's actually really hard to be an ethical CEO, I don't actually blame them for following the rules of the system they work under (I do blame those that attempt to influence policy & undermine positive social change though).

"The only people who believe in infinite growth in a finite world are madmen and economists." -
 
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I actually see this more like inflation.

NHS gets better, people live longer, we therefore increase retirement age to go in line with increased life span

kd
 
sports_brah said:
Ties into the idea of infinite growth.

It ain't going to happen.

Technology, computing equipment and robotics is getting increasingly clever. Lots of jobs will soon be completely redundant.

The solution? Who knows?
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I'm not seeing the problem with technology tbh... any more than I don't see a problem with 99% of the population not having to plough fields during the week and attend archery practice on Sundays

the world didn't stop because we people were not individually harvesting their own food just as it didn't stop prior to that when we moved away from living in caves and hunting in tribes... nor are we in crisis because large numbers of people are not working in cotton mills, or in heavy industry or mining for coal....

regardless of the unemployment % we've still currently got more people, in terms of sheer numbers, in employment than at any other time in our history - the idea that jobs can't exist because technology keeps improving is fundamentally flawed.... it only takes a minority to provide food, housing... plenty of other jobs exist simply because people want stuff and I can't see people not wanting 'stuff' goods, services etc.. any time soon. In fact increases in technology have only ever led to a greater desire for us to consume even more.
 
dowie said:
I'm not seeing the problem with technology tbh... any more than I don't see a problem with 99% of the population not having to plough fields during the week and attend archery practice on Sundays

the world didn't stop because we people were not individually harvesting their own food just as it didn't stop prior to that when we moved away from living in caves and hunting in tribes... nor are we in crisis because large numbers of people are not working in cotton mills, or in heavy industry or mining for coal....

regardless of the unemployment % we've still currently got more people, in terms of sheer numbers, in employment than at any other time in our history - the idea that jobs can't exist because technology keeps improving is fundamentally flawed.... it only takes a minority to provide food, housing... plenty of other jobs exist simply because people want stuff and I can't see people not wanting 'stuff' goods, services etc.. any time soon. In fact increases in technology have only ever led to a greater desire for us to consume even more.
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Technology isn't a problem in itself, and indeed, without the need to be better we'd probably have died out thousands of years ago!

The problem is when it's in conjunction with to high a population, with a finite amount of resources.

Population demands are growing, especially with an ever increasing expectation (we can't just deal out the RDA of calories and nutrients and expect people to be happy. Something that was never a problem for our society, it's now that China's middle class keeps growing, 300,000,000 and rising, along with other areas of the world, that we have a problem) from the world.

We also can't keep expanding into the tertiary sectors, as the fuel they run on is finite and is becoming even more so. (Not just oils, but rare minerals, forestry etc etc).

All is fine and dandy NOW, but I reckon it's not going to be sustainable for a lot longer. There will come a time when a few million more people is going to be far more problematic than a billion or so now.
 
Also it's worth mentioning that whilst life in the "old ages" was certainly no picnic, I do suspect as people are increasingly employed in jobs that don't REALLY need to exist, that the job satisfaction will drop massively, and we're going to have real societal problems in regards purpose and existence.
 
I've been thinking about this recently after watching utopia and reading the many threads on here about it and it is all rather worrying.

The ever increasing demand for resources and just room to live in general means that for the western world in particular we could start to see a downward slope in quality of life.

It's a rather selfish view but I don't want my living standards to drop so other countries improve.

So we either find a way for us all to live the western way or I can see things turning very nasty.

For jobs I think the general education level in this country has to improve by a fair margin as research seems to be one of markets that we are still good at.
 
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It's a case of some people reaching pensionable age, and others won't because it's a moving target. 20 years ago, you got it at 60. Last decade it was 65. This decade it's 68. It'll then go up to 70, 75, 78 etc. I'll be dead by the time I reach it :p
 
groen said:
There is no solution to the unfunded liabilities. The national ponzi scheme will collapse, it is not if, only when.
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I have a feeling this is posted by a smug socialist (these sorts of things normally are) but it is amusing how they fail to see the irony of the whole "ponzi" scheme being caused by their lovely socialist ideals. Blame capitalism! Oh the irony :)

Monserrat said:
It's a case of some people reaching pensionable age, and others won't because it's a moving target. 20 years ago, you got it at 60. Last decade it was 65. This decade it's 68. It'll then go up to 70, 75, 78 etc. I'll be dead by the time I reach it :p
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Yes but what of those at the bottom (by that I mean those entering the job market) unless there is more and more growth where will the jobs for them be if we are working forever?
 
If the govt raise retirement age by much it won't matter to a great deal of processes.
There was extensive research carried out into a relatively stressful job, a hospital consultant, and on average, those who worked to 60 could expect to live for 18 years, those who worked to 65, could expect to live for 18 months.
Such a difference.

I doubt many folks would want me half blind and decrepit treating them when I am seventy years of age.
 
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