If 'The City' does well the country does well?

[StriderX]

We need to have backups in case of economic failure in the world and frankly we have none.

The government has a pitiful R&D grant budget and no one in the UK is really using the research that is done here to further our economy, we just pick up the scraps left behind by massive corporations and firms that patent everything they can, South Korea and the US have over a thousand patents each and China has over two thousand patents...How many do we have?

54.

While you could argue quality over quantity, such things tend not to matter in the economy, so not only do we have nothing today, but we having nothing tomorrow.

 

[arknor]

the city does well at the expense of everywhere else considering how subsidised it is by every other area of the uk

 

[jellybeard999]

Www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21934564

Pretty convincing article.

I very much feel that central gov thinks England=London

 

[Judgeneo]

'Bankers' get a lot of misinformed criticism in the country. In my experience D.P. is mostly right, e.g. yesterday I was catching up with friend of mine who is now 1 year after graduation at a prestigious hedge fund. Very working class background, works hard, very smart.

There are of course a lot of guys in finance who are from the best schools, and get in because their dad was owed a favour by the CEO, but these guys tend not to do as well.

 

[Spook187]

That's because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

I beg your pardon.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/feb/28/rbs-losses-chastening-year-stephen-hester


The figures are there in black and white.

Instead of just saying i have no idea, explain to me and the rest of us what you know then


Oh wait you said.

The stigma around bank bonuses currently amuses me. If a particular person receives his/her bonus it will mean he/she is actually doing well hitting their particular targets that they are contractually obliged to hit and therefore generating profit for the bank.

It's the guys who aren't getting their bonuses we want to worry about...

And i say RBS didn't hit those targets did they, they made huge losses.

 

[Tunney]

(im counting down the days until I honeymoon in Maui, my boss was in Maui at Christmas and took a laptop to work form the hotel for most of it, there is the difference!).

Enjoy Maui - it's a stunning island and everything is so easy there. Hope you get to see some of the other Hawaiin islands too. It's a long journey and worth seeing the contrast with Oahu and/or the big island.

I've known a lot of people who fit your category 1 to a tee. All soulless individuals. If you're going to put that much work into something, why not do something genuinely positive with your life? Why put that much effort into the latest outsourcing project or company restructuring when you could be a scientist or a doctor? I guess I've had my views tainted by some of my ex-employers full of these people though.

 

[Andrew_McP]

'Bankers' get a lot of misinformed criticism in the country.

The sad thing is that the world has become so distorted that far, far too much talent has disappeared into the world of money, leaving the West an empty husk, slowly sucking itself dry as it struggles to face up to the developing East (and eventually, South).

To me the financial "industry" should be a valuable support mechanism, the oil lubricating businesses which actually produce something tangible and of value. But it seems that the brain drain into finance, and computerisation of complex manipulative financial tools, has led to a situation where flows of money are being used to create the illusion of work being done. It's a kind of phantom economy which looks like wealth, smells like wealth, but produces... what?

Without Central Banks pumping out a river of new money, the financial industry as we know it would wither and die. And the only reason Central Banks can do that is that we, the tax paying population, are the insurance policy governments can leverage eternally. So it's not hard to see the modern financial 'industry' as a kind of leech, creaming a percentage off every ebb and flow of the lifeblood of a normal economy. They make money wherever that money flows to, whether it's benefit cheques or corporate mergers.

Ok, the argument is that by being very good at this, we attract lots of foreign capital and get to leech a bit of everyone's wealth, not just domestic, and that money gets spent locally, boosting the UK economy. But whether you're sucking one corpse dry, or have access to an entire graveyard, you're still living on someone else's life's work, and borrowed time.

To sum up my position: bankers aren't bad, they're just sensible human beings looking after their own interests in a world gone nuts, where politicians and law struggles to keep up with hideously complex financial confuscation. We swapped pre-Thatcher slavery to the unions for post-Thatcher slavery to the banking system, and a new age where international finance is above the laws of any one nation was born.

It seems unhealthy to me.

 

[atpbx]

I dont have a problem with Bankers getting bonuses.

They are private companies, what they pay their staff is none of our business.

 

[jsmoke]

The sad thing is that the world has become so distorted that far, far too much talent has disappeared into the world of money, leaving the West an empty husk, slowly sucking itself dry as it struggles to face up to the developing East (and eventually, South).

To me the financial "industry" should be a valuable support mechanism, the oil lubricating businesses which actually produce something tangible and of value. But it seems that the brain drain into finance, and computerisation of complex manipulative financial tools, has led to a situation where flows of money are being used to create the illusion of work being done. It's a kind of phantom economy which looks like wealth, smells like wealth, but produces... what?

Without Central Banks pumping out a river of new money, the financial industry as we know it would wither and die. And the only reason Central Banks can do that is that we, the tax paying population, are the insurance policy governments can leverage eternally. So it's not hard to see the modern financial 'industry' as a kind of leech, creaming a percentage off every ebb and flow of the lifeblood of a normal economy. They make money wherever that money flows to, whether it's benefit cheques or corporate mergers.

Ok, the argument is that by being very good at this, we attract lots of foreign capital and get to leech a bit of everyone's wealth, not just domestic, and that money gets spent locally, boosting the UK economy. But whether you're sucking one corpse dry, or have access to an entire graveyard, you're still living on someone else's life's work, and borrowed time.

To sum up my position: bankers aren't bad, they're just sensible human beings looking after their own interests in a world gone nuts, where politicians and law struggles to keep up with hideously complex financial confuscation. We swapped pre-Thatcher slavery to the unions for post-Thatcher slavery to the banking system, and a new age where international finance is above the laws of any one nation was born.

It seems unhealthy to me.

Well written, Bravo. Your right, it's mainly about creation of jobs, so you have a team of research analysts working for a bank for example and all half of them do is wine and dine their clients with a bit of paper pushing on the side.

 

[kitch9]

I beg your pardon.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/feb/28/rbs-losses-chastening-year-stephen-hester


The figures are there in black and white.

Instead of just saying i have no idea, explain to me and the rest of us what you know then
Initially

Oh wait you said.

The stigma around bank bonuses currently amuses me. If a particular person receives his/her bonus it will mean he/she is actually doing well hitting their particular targets that they are contractually obliged to hit and therefore generating profit for the bank.

It's the guys who aren't getting their bonuses we want to worry about...

And i say RBS didn't hit those targets did they, they made huge losses.

Since when would anyone take a position where their wages depends on what everyone else in the company is doing?

That's not how employment and renumeration works I'm afraid. Have a read up so you get an idea.

 

[Skull]

I beg your pardon.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/feb/28/rbs-losses-chastening-year-stephen-hester


The figures are there in black and white.

Instead of just saying i have no idea, explain to me and the rest of us what you know then

It's the guys who aren't getting their bonuses we want to worry about...

And i say RBS didn't hit those targets did they, they made huge losses.

Have you read the link you posted? The company as a whole made losses, but that doesn't mean every individual department did. In fact, the hard work of those departments almost certainly made the losses a lot lighter than they could have been.

What you seem to be suggesting is that if the organisation as a whole makes a loss, no one should get a bonus, regardless of their contribution. I would certainly like to see you accept that logic applied to your own work and whether or not you would accept being told:

"Yes Mr Spook187, I know you spent the last 12 months putting in 90 hour weeks, exceeded your targets by 800% and brought in 50x your salary in profits, but losses in other departments mean the company as a whole made a loss, so you won't be getting any bonus at all. Have a good Christmas and we look forward to you putting the same amount of effort in next year"

 

[jas72]

somewhere between 250,000 and 350,000 are employed in the COL financial sector (not including the accountants and solicitors that get work from the sector).

the people inhabit one of the most prosperous regions on earth per capita so the income tax received to the treasury is massive.

is it?

 

[jas72]

What you seem to be suggesting is that if the organisation as a whole makes a loss, no one should get a bonus, regardless of their contribution. I would certainly like to see you accept that logic applied to your own work and whether or not you would accept being told:

Eh LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

This happens in nearly every other industry if the company is making huge loses no one gets a bonus why should banks be any different?

Ask those in HMV who performed well last year how much of a bonus they saw. The banks were bankrupt. BANKRUPT! Propped up by the taxpayer yet people expect still to get a bonus when their company failed spectacularly? They were extremely lucky just to keep their job.

I know friends who not only had no bonus but had to accept to work for free for 2 weeks to stop lay offs.

 

[Skull]

somewhere between 250,000 and 350,000 are employed in the COL financial sector (not including the accountants and solicitors that get work from the sector).

the people inhabit one of the most prosperous regions on earth per capita so the income tax received to the treasury is massive.

Well the median salary is £40,000 a year, most of the people working there are employees rather than business owners so they'll be paying income tax, so I would imagine the treasury will be getting quite a lot of coins to pour into its vault.

 

[Rids]

The sheer amount of vitirol about The City that gets posted here is incredibly amusing. Some of you actually believe that everybody that works in banking or finance is a "low life leech" or whatever the actual quote was? My god it must be great to be able to see things in such clear black and white - is this your own opinion formed after a great deal of study or is this what you're saying because you've read in The Sun that a guy was incredibly good at his job got a well deserved bonus?

 

[jsmoke]

The sheer amount of vitirol about The City that gets posted here is incredibly amusing. Some of you actually believe that everybody that works in banking or finance is a "low life leech" or whatever the actual quote was? My god it must be great to be able to see things in such clear black and white - is this your own opinion formed after a great deal of study or is this what you're saying because you've read in The Sun that a guy was incredibly good at his job got a well deserved bonus?

One of the main issues is, if you look at the import/export data for the UK, then you will see that we import a huge amount of food, water and other goods, way more than we export.

So I guess people feel these bankers have created some kind of bubble where they think they are entitled to have what they want. But, are half of them actually needed, are they worth their money.

As said above it's a (possibly)phoney world they have created, phoney exports for real food and other consumerist imports.

But I guess they argue that they are creating jobs and wealth elsewhere in the world, particularly third world counties by driving demand, which is a fair point. Their fear is that when these poorer counties become stronger and less corrupt then we will have much less to bargain with.

 

[kinobestew123]

And i say RBS didn't hit those targets did they, they made huge losses.

I didn't realise that you knew what the targets were of each individual person were at RBS? Pretty sure everyones target wasn't "make RBS make a profit".

Just because the organisation itself made a lost doesn't mean that individuals within it didn't meet their targets and thus deserve a bonus.

The rewards for individuals that meet targets are needed in order to retain those people that are helping RBS in the best way they can. Without them, RBS would have likely made an even bigger loss or gone under completely due to a lack of staff. People arn't going to stick around otherwise.

Not quite sure why you think "business makes loss - nobody gets paid properly" makes proper sense.

No doubt you're going to spiel off something about the people at the top getting huge amounts. What do you suggest? Get rid of them and hire some fresh faced graduate with no experience to run the business? Those top people arn't going to stick around without the correct remuneration package.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

Agreed, also annoys me when people are just purely jealous that someone has a highly respectable well paying job and try to justify their lack of career achievements by saying inane comments like "but I'm from a working class background", "it is not what you know but who you know", "It is just an old-boys club".

All the CEOs/top managers/IBs etc. that earn high salaries (e.g. 200k> more + bonus) who I know personally achieved that by working from the bottom up, from a working class family at the poverty line. They all share similar traits:

• All are very smart, very adaptable, outright intelligent people
• All are very hard working, to the point of workaholics and will enjoy spending most of their evening and weekends working (normally split between their actual work and side projects).
• Are confident, well spoken, often a slight arrogance that helps them succeed. Good communication skills and ability to debate, reason, and defend their PoV.
• Gave 110% to everything they do from when they were at primary school. They studied hard to get their first class honours etc. Since they were smart and hard working a lot of them finished school/uni/phd early.
• They made their own luck through perseverance , positive attitude, not getting caught up in failures but focusing on the next success. E.g., one of them has set up 3 start-ups all of which have failed but he picked himself up and his 4th attempt quickly succeeded in making him a millionaire. Most people would have given up on the first or second failure!

The people that do the complaining typically have these values:

• Try to do the minimum effort to succeed. Never over deliver, merely provide what is requested.
• View the working day as a strict 8 hour limit, when 5pm hits they race home.
• View work has a boring necessity rather than a fun challenge.
• Would rather drink beer with friends than try to solve a difficult problem.
• Count down the days until their next vacation
• View taking a dump at work as winning 10 minutes of the companies time.
• Work out how much money they earned during their 15min fag break
• Will only work overtime if they get paid additional money
• Hates when a project deadline is due and longer hours are required (winners love the challenge and experience of working furiously to meet tight deadlines)

Don't get me wrong, many of the traits in the second list a natural and I have many of them (im counting down the days until I honeymoon in Maui, my boss was in Maui at Christmas and took a laptop to work form the hotel for most of it, there is the difference!). But that is what separates me from people with highly successful careers. I do however have enough of the traits in the first list to put me into a career that is paying in the top 5-10%.

Also it is not obvious that being the type of person in the first list is really a positive. I don't think being a workaholic is healthy.
A simpler questions is do you work to live or live to work. Most successful people are of the latter, while most of the rest of us are of the former.

Hard to argue with this because it's kind of what I believe, but you gotta admit a good majority of them are probably douchebags.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

Yes and No. You need these traits, but also you need to be good at positioning yourself into the right situation.

For example, you could work your ass off for company and expect to get promoted. However you need look at it from the other side too. Would you rather let them carry on working their ass off for you on a lower salary, or a higher salary? They will keep dangling carrot, because it is in their self-interest and they are not idiots but it doesn't they will act on it. Asking for it won't work(Implicit threat), and saying your going to leave(Explicit threat) is a threat which most bosses hate.

They need a good reason for them to get promoted which is something other than intelligent, hard working and so forth.

Often this reason is political like being good friends with a large client(I have personally used this) or knowing information no one else knows and so on. It not merit based process. Obviously being intelligent/persistence helps you manipulate your way into these situations but no always.

I can show a list of people with these traits, who have gotten nowhere. For a lot of people their salary will just keep inline with the market rates because its the only genuine leverage they have, even if they are highly intelligent and hard working.

I think you have survivorship bias, just because you have those traits doesn't mean its going to get you there. So you end up working your ass off, and getting nothing.

This too, sometimes people work their ass off and never see anything. I remember reading a good book was by a successful financial guy, and he kind of said if you ever want to be rich don't work for somebody else.

 

[Hades]

This too, sometimes people work their ass off and never see anything. I remember reading a good book was by a successful financial guy, and he kind of said if you ever want to be rich don't work for somebody else.

Was that Rich Dad Poor Dad? I think everyone should read that book in their late teens or early twenties as it will likely influence their approach to working and to wealth.