If we deem people not responsible enough to manage their own rent, why do we not manage the rest of their lives?
Bedroom tax
- Thread starter Danthus
- Start date
If we deem people not responsible enough to manage their own rent, why do we not manage the rest of their lives?
Soldato
- Joined
- 1 Jul 2007
- Posts
- 5,392
Good philisophical question, in short I don't know.
As they're still able to "manage" their lives daily. It's the lack of having any previous responsibility and being brought up in an irresponsible environment and with the attitude that society owes them and will always sort them out that causes it.
In fact just typing that, maybe this is what part of these social wellfare reforms are all about? It's trying to give them the slap in the face with a wetfish to make them realise that society doesn't owe them anything.
(I'm just waffling really)
Part of the aim is to ease the transition from benefit dependent to self supporting by aligning benefits to the real world, hence monthly payments and responsibilities for paying the bills, things that don't happen currently. It may not work, but it does make some form of sense.
i cant see the big problem with the bedroom tax other than the issues regarding people with carers or perhaps kids that see parents at weekends etc.
Surely giving people correctly occupied houses allows more housing to be free'd up for new people to occupy? wouldn't you feel stupid living in a 3-4 bed house with only 2 people or a 2 bed flat by yourself?
As for the minimum wage going up, I am sceptical that on some level that by increasing it there will be less jobs or perhaps more companies not willing to employ the extra help due to the cost.
That said there are more apprenticeships kicking about now, whether they are good quality and will provide you with a decent job/career and aren't just giving the government the opportunity to play with figures.. who knows.
Surely giving people correctly occupied houses allows more housing to be free'd up for new people to occupy? wouldn't you feel stupid living in a 3-4 bed house with only 2 people or a 2 bed flat by yourself?
As for the minimum wage going up, I am sceptical that on some level that by increasing it there will be less jobs or perhaps more companies not willing to employ the extra help due to the cost.
That said there are more apprenticeships kicking about now, whether they are good quality and will provide you with a decent job/career and aren't just giving the government the opportunity to play with figures.. who knows.
In what way?
Dolph and his timeless one liners. It almost makes me feel young again.
I live in a 2 bedroom detached house I pay a mortgage on and live in with girlfriend. We could easily live in a small flat but choose to live here.
You know what we do with our extra room? Rent it out to a lodger to pay bills and help keep things happy.
If people are having such major issues losing as little as 15 to 20 pounds per week because of an extra room:
1) find a job, I have never been unemployed for any long periods I have always scraped through with many bad jobs when needed. Life is tough, get on with it.
2) find a smaller place more suitable to the size of the occupants
3) rent out the extra room (s)
Maybe I am being unsympathetic here but I feel a major deal is being made over something relatively small to get our country out this godforsaken mess.
You know what we do with our extra room? Rent it out to a lodger to pay bills and help keep things happy.
If people are having such major issues losing as little as 15 to 20 pounds per week because of an extra room:
1) find a job, I have never been unemployed for any long periods I have always scraped through with many bad jobs when needed. Life is tough, get on with it.
2) find a smaller place more suitable to the size of the occupants
3) rent out the extra room (s)
Maybe I am being unsympathetic here but I feel a major deal is being made over something relatively small to get our country out this godforsaken mess.
Post of the thread here TBH
And the reason is this, rIcK has taken personal responsibility for his situation. He has a problem and instead of sitting about bitching and wining about his problem and running to the state expecting life to be paid out to him and thinking he has the right to a charmed life without working hard, he has found his own solution.
It's frustrating to me that there's some bleeding heart lefties here that prefer to throw free money at people, they live in absolute cloud cuckoo land. They truly believe that a true socialist utopia can be achieved and completely fail to acknowledge failures of Russia, Cuba and china et al.
It's high time that the left woke up and live in the real world. Money doesn't grow on trees, the state can't go round creating fake jobs like they did in the last Labour government (who only did it to secure votes for themselves), and throwing free money at people (again, to secure votes by making them dependent on the state). And they can't just sit there and moan about 'we're all in this together' statement when this government has gone and cut taxes for the poorest by lifting the personal allowance. The biggest tax cut for the poorest in living memory!!! You can't raise taxes for the rich excessively because they have the money to move there finances out of the country and leave the country if they need to. We need people to work hard, become rich and pay more taxes, i would see the 40% return and then you'll see the rich flooding into the UK from Europe.
Last edited:
Not much, but it cost more to administrate than was worth the return, and it does potentionally impact future external investment.....50% is kind of a psychological barrier where people think, "damn, I'm giving half my money away" and that does have an impact. Ask the French, with their high tax rates they are seeing high profile investment and earners either investing elsewhere or physically leaving.
It also increases the desire to avoid taxation wherever possible, so its counterproductive to have high tax rates, better to have a simpler tapered system that is harder to avoid.
Didn't think so
Probably, but that is more to do with the temporary nature of the rate and it's one year advance notice of implementation and withdrawal, that allowed people to manipulate their tax affairs. A topic that has been covered extensively.
Funnily enough I did just the other day, and it has caused some high profile high earners to leave, but it isn't that comparable as their rate is 75% over 1M Euro.
A bit like the minimum wage argument, at a sensible level it doesn't harm employment, but it would if you made it £100 an hour.
So all we are doing is debating where the sensible line is, and in reality the motivational factors around 40-45-50% seem to be minimal in the overall scare mongering that 'all the rich will leave the country'
But I would be out of a job with a simpler system!
Didn't think so
However, there is evidence that it increased avoidance, as well as decreased inward investment and job creation...I know my wife was talking about it, their company began procedures to pay high earners through other systems and I suspect they were not the only one, you need competitive tax rates to compete effectively in a global marketable the return was simply not worth it in the long term.
People would be able to manipulate their tax affairs regardless, especially so if it was permanent. The idea is to maximise tax revenues, and simply having high tax rates is not necessarily the most effective way to do this.
The French tax system is a lot more than simply a 75% rate on high earners, the costs to a business on their staff of whatever stature are becoming increasingly uncompetitive and a barrier to investment, again my wife's company find it increasingly viable to reduce their French offices and relocate elsewhere in Europe or bring the work in centrally to the UK.
Indeed, a sensible rate lower than that psychological 50% barrier.
I disagree, 50% is quite an important figure when you are considering how to manage your tax affairs, whereas 40% or even 45% is 'less than half' and has a significantly lower psychological impact on the earner. I know a few who begun to look into their tax liabilities when this was instituted whereas they did not before, some paid significantly less tax as a result.
It is counterproductive, the returns were low and would potentially have gotten lower and more insignificant as more people took a hard look at their tax liabilities and ways to lower them, not to mention bringing in competitive talent from outside the UK or keeping that talent within the UK.
40-45% seems to be the limit that many people will pay before they begin looking at how to actively reduce their liabilities to the State, and therefore is a more sensible level than 50%.
But I would be out of a job with a simpler system!
Go into industry if you are an accountant.
Go into industry if you are an accountant.
Not again thanks, I much prefer it now I am self employed and my own boss
Not again thanks, I much prefer it now I am self employed and my own boss
A 50% rate (or higher) would be good for business, well, yours at least if not in general.......
Permabanned
- Joined
- 15 Sep 2010
- Posts
- 2,691
Bedroom tax wont go the distance, it'll go after con/dem's short reign at the very latest, you never know, the vile cons just might realise how silly they are being and scrap it before they become a complete laughing stock, too late in my opinion though, I've been weeing myself with laughter since Cameron and his arse lickers opened their mouths.
Last edited:
Associate
- Joined
- 12 Dec 2010
- Posts
- 100
- Location
- London
I couldn't agree more with this! Either pay the bedroom tax or they should have a single person lodge who is also in need of social housing. Sorts out the lack of single housing and the unused bedrooms. If rIcK can do it... why can't they?
Permabanned
- Joined
- 15 Sep 2010
- Posts
- 2,691
Ladies and Gentlemen, this is David Cameron.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfW3JMuHIjY
Targeting the unemployed during a recession would be cruel under any circumstances, and it was disgraceful to see the Government peddling the false notion that anyone without a job was a workshy scrounger and parasite-and to see that particular lie being lapped up by a large number of my fellow citizens, thereby revealing that, beneath many peoples superficial respectability beat hearts of hatred, forever burning to find a scapegoat and to make them suffer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfW3JMuHIjY
Targeting the unemployed during a recession would be cruel under any circumstances, and it was disgraceful to see the Government peddling the false notion that anyone without a job was a workshy scrounger and parasite-and to see that particular lie being lapped up by a large number of my fellow citizens, thereby revealing that, beneath many peoples superficial respectability beat hearts of hatred, forever burning to find a scapegoat and to make them suffer.
Last edited:
Oh dear...
Permabanned
- Joined
- 15 Sep 2010
- Posts
- 2,691
Indeed
More "Oh dear" that you would fall for that emotive rubbish and then repost it than any sign of support.