Would an independant Scotland be forced to join the Euro?

[Biohazard]

Scotland has the same representation as everyone else in the UK...are you suggesting that Scotland be given preferential treatment?

I think I've been quite clear Castiel, there is no Scottish representation or "say over the pound" on the MPC.

Your straw man about preferential treatment would be easily avoided if you followed my assertion; that nothing will change and would have to change on the advent on Independence in relation to Scotland's continued use of the currency.

Suggestions to the contrary are economic suicide.

'You don't think'...is exactly the point, it is your opinion. The interests of the UK economy are inclusive of ALL the UK, that includes Scotland.

It was a figure of speak Castiel, and of course it's my opinion. Just like what you are typing is your opinion.

Except there are plenty of polls that show people in Scotland do not have the same faith as you do in the 'best interests and intentions' of Westminster and I think (again, a figure of speach. I know) that's particularly acute when it comes to matters of economy.

No it isn't. It is, for practical purposes a currency union, however the UK Treasury doesn't guarantee or underwrite the Manx Pound, and the others are all using it as an exchangeable currency without legal tender status within the UK proper and/or subject to the BoE and Treasury policies of the UK.

So that looks nothing like a currency union which was what I asked you?

It's a defacto currency Union, and again I see no reason why Scotland would not be offered the same opportunity as others of have become independent politically. There would be good reason for it to continue, not least of which is part Scots ownership of the bank and substantial deposits backing our own currency issue.

There is nothing stopping Scotland using Sterling, but their is also no obligation to Scotland by the BoE or the rUK Treasury.

I think there is, we partly own it unless we are to get our respective share value.

It isn't absurd, it is something that will have to be negotiated, if Scotland chose independence. The rUK and BoE will act in the interests of the rUK and if that means a currency union then I am sure that will happen, however, if it doesn't or if there is issues such as Euro admission requirements on Scotland, then it may well not happen.

It clearly is absurd to argue all those other countries could have it but Scotland couldn't. How could you even disagree with that statement?

The rUK is commited to acting in the interests of both nations in the advent of Independence, as is Scotland. It clearly would be in the interests of both nations to keep a currency union, which is partly why people are a bit dumbfounded at all the threats to the contrary.

Scotland can't be 'forced' to join the Euro, it has to have its own currency to engage with the prerequisite exchange mechanism in the first place.

Again, no substantive proposals, just 'this is what will happen'...anyone can say whatever they want, the reality is often somewhat different however. Even the SNP/Yes Campaign cannot agree what they want at the moment.

The discredited and downgraded Chancellor can scream to the high heavens about just how much he is itching bite his nose off to spite his face in the advent of Scottish independence, it doesn't make his threats any less nutty.

 

[Castiel]

Of course it does.

I disagree...your local MP represents you just as mine represents me.

Essentially, yes.

The same could be said for any comparative demographic population of similar size in the UK...it's doesn't mean that Scots are not represented.

Scotland clearly is a political entity, and unpopular Government's elsewhere aren't of a concern really to the problem of Scotland's Westminster governance.

Clearly this has had a remarkable effect on Scotland's political landscape in past decades.

Again, the same could be said of other parts of the UK.

The former has nothing to do with England voting in the Westminster Government of the day, and when that choice is in stark contrast to Scotland there is no way out in the current UK political settlement. We won't have an independence referendum each time we get foisted with an unpopular Government we didn't vote into office. At best, we have a devolved parliament that Labour and the Conservatives would like to exist to mitigate against the worst excesses of Westminster rule.

Yet you do vote them into office, we all do. It's a general election, we all have a vote and the right to exercise it as we wish. The same rights, we are the United Kingdom, a single political state.

What a miserable existence that is.

I suspect that most people's everyday lives will remain unchanged, and some will benefit, others will be worse off.

The referendum will see how the majority of your compatriots feel about their miserable existence.

Which was my point, that it was irrespective of the referendum.

Then it has nothing to do with anything I have said and is therefore pointless to the debate. You referred to the Union falling apart, the referendum will at least show whether others agree with you in the main...

 

[Biohazard]

I disagree...your local MP represents you just as mine represents me.

Disagree all you like, that won't change the fact that those past Governments would have happened all the same and that Scotland is merely a participating bystander in these proceedings.

The same could be said for any comparative demographic population of similar size in the UK...it's doesn't mean that Scots are not represented.

Scot's do not choose the Government in Westminster. That the same can be said for another group of people doesn't particularly surprise me.

Again, the same could be said of other parts of the UK.

So what?

Yet you do vote them into office, we all do. It's a general election, we all have a vote and the right to exercise it as we wish. The same rights, we are the United Kingdom, a single political state.

Scotland as a political entity does not decide the Government. England does that.

I suspect that most people's everyday lives will remain unchanged, and some will benefit, others will be worse off.

The referendum will see how the majority of your compatriots feel about their miserable existence.

That miserable existence was in relation to the claimed purpose of a devolved settlement within a UK framework from the Unionist parties. That was clearly not me saying that Scots live a miserable existence Castiel.

Then it has nothing to do with anything I have said and is therefore pointless to the debate. You referred to the Union falling apart, the referendum will at least show whether others agree with you in the main...

"Then it has nothing to do with anything I have said and is therefore pointless to the debate."

What utter arrogance. And a complete misunderstanding of the conversation you've just been involved in.

 

[Castiel]

I think I've been quite clear Castiel, there is no Scottish representation or "say over the pound" on the MPC.

Your straw man about preferential treatment would be easily avoided if you followed my assertion; that nothing will change and would have to change on the advent on Independence in relation to Scotland's continued use of the pound

Except that the BoE or UK treasury would not have any obligation to Scotland in its policies unless they coincided with the interests of the rUK...currently that is not the case, as Scotland is an intrinsic part of the UK economy.

So its not the same.

It was a figure of speak Castiel, and of course it's my opinion. Just like what you are typing is your opinion.

Except there are plenty of polls that show people in Scotland do not have the same faith as you do in the 'best interests and intentions' of Westminster and I think (again, a figure of speach. I know) that's particularly acute when it comes to matters of economy.

There are plenty of polls throughout the UK that show similar, Scotland is not unique in opposing the austerity.

So that looks nothing like a currency union which was what I asked you?

No you said Sterling Currency Zone, which is something different.

It's a defacto currency Union, and again I see no reason why Scotland would not be offered the same opportunity as others of have become independent politically. There would be good reason for it to continue, not least of which is part Scots ownership of the bank and substantial deposits backing our own currency issue.

This remains to be seen, as I said there are no guarantees and there is no obligations on the rUK to conform to anything.

I think there is, we partly own it unless we are to get our respective share value.

Again, this is open to debate and negotiation.

It clearly is absurd to argue all those other countries could have it but Scotland couldn't. How could you even disagree with that statement?

We live in a different economic and political world today, the failures of the Sterling Zone will potentially impact on any decision made in negotiations....again, I repeat, there are no guarantees and no obligations to accede.

The rUK is commited to acting in the interests of both nations in the advent of Independence, as is Scotland. It clearly would be in the interests of both nations to keep a currency union, which is partly why people are a bit dumbfounded at all the threats to the contrary.

If that can be demonstrated and is in the interested of rUK then I am sure, as I said, that it will happen.....however, ther are no, well you know!

Scotland can't be 'forced' to join the Euro, it has to have its own currency to engage with the prerequisite exchange mechanism in the first place.

I didn't say 'forced', but it may be a prerequisite to EU membership.

The discredited and downgraded Chancellor can scream to the high heavens about just how much he is itching bite his nose off to spite his face in the advent of Scottish independence, it doesn't make his threats any less nutty.

Rhetoric.

 

[Castiel]

"Then it has nothing to do with anything I have said and is therefore pointless to the debate."

What utter arrogance. And a complete misunderstanding of the conversation you've just been involved in.

Here we go, the belligerent biohazard arrives and the insults begin.....goodnight.

 

[V F]

You know the funniest thing I love this past week or two between the parties, Cameron, Osbourne etc arguing over the currency all the endless bitching, acting like we're all the same. Then you go down to England and get in a taxi and the taxi driver looks at you funny and wonders what this funny looking money is. Scottish money? do you take this sir? he huffs and puffs. Alright! As if it was plagued with a curse. Oh my god somebody handed me this crazy substance!

I remember one time one taxi driver did not know about scottish money. He honestly had never seen it before. Plus he wasn't some young guy.

 

[Biohazard]

Except that the BoE or UK treasury would not have any obligation to Scotland in its policies unless they coincided with the interests of the rUK...currently that is not the case, as Scotland is an intrinsic part of the UK economy. So its not the same.

It would essentially be business as usual. Scotland would remain interconnected to what is presently the UK economy. The likelihood of divergence at present is virtually zero.

It is for all intents and purposes, beyond the structure for ascertaining business conditions, the same.

There are plenty of polls throughout the UK that show similar, Scotland is not unique in opposing the austerity.

No this in specific relation to the 'best interests and intentions' of Westminster. Not specific policies individually.

No you said Sterling Currency Zone, which is something different.

Currency zone, union, same thing.

This remains to be seen, as I said there are no guarantees and there is no obligations on the rUK to conform to anything.

There are, two things. The Edinburgh agreement in relation to mutual interest and good intent, and also the clear sound economic interests in Scotland (and it's vast wealth and deposits) not being 'ejected' from Sterling.

Again, this is open to debate and negotiation.

Scotland's entitlement to a population share isn't some fanciful notion, it is the paid for right of Scotland.

We live in a different economic and political world today, the failures of the Sterling Zone will potentially impact on any decision made in negotiations....again, I repeat, there are no guarantees and no obligations to accede.

That doesn't actually mean anything though, nor is it justified reasoning.

If that can be demonstrated and is in the interested of rUK then I am sure, as I said, that it will happen.....however, ther are no, well you know!

I didn't say 'forced', but it may be a prerequisite to EU membership.

That was in relation to the thread title and the OP. If Scotland does not inherit treaty obligations, it does not inherit debt. Should Scotland have to apply for membership in the advent of a Yes vote it will be doing so within the Union as part of the United Kingdom. In any event, Scotland will not own a currency itself to enter into the exchange mechanism.

It is impossible for the Euro to be forced upon Scotland.

Rhetoric.

It clearly isn't rhetoric, it's clearly an untenable position.

 

[Biohazard]

Here we go, the belligerent biohazard arrives and the insults begin.....goodnight.

"Then it has nothing to do with anything I have said and is therefore pointless to the debate"

As if the debate revolves around you, and every utterance you have said Castiel. That is nearly the definition of arrogance. That you now start to act up, as usual, when called up on it says more about you than it does me.

I'm not insulting you, you said it yourself.

 

[Castiel]

"Then it has nothing to do with anything I have said and is therefore pointless to the debate"

As if the debate revolves around you, and every utterance you have said Castiel. That is nearly the definition of arrogance. That you now start to act up, as usual, when called up on it says more about you than it does me.

I'm not insulting you, you said it yourself.

The initial response to what I said clearly had nothing to do with the referendum if you were talking about wider issues encompassing the entire UK, or the claim you made about the Union falling apart....as I said, the referendum will decide whether the majority of Scotland agree with you....whether you want to introduce something else to the debate is up to you, however it doesn't have anything to do with what you quoted if you maintain you were talking about wider social and economic issues that affect everyone in the UK regardless of the outcome of the referendum.

It isn't arrogance to say that it has no relevance to the statement or the opinion I made and if anything I cannot be bothered to engage you when you decide to get personal and belligerent.

This always creeps into your debates, accusations, insults, misrepresentation, rhetoric and simply ignoring what the other has to say if it isn't compliant with your specific opinion or shows your opinion to be somewhat less vaunted than you think it is. I am not interested in such rubbish and it happens often enough that I simply will ignore you from now on, I have gone to great lengths to offer you the benefit of the doubt at every opportunity with regard to your debating style and whether you hold any inherent prejudices or not and I will continue to do so, but I will not debate with you any further as it always degenerates into this kind of infantile bickering.

Goodnight Biohazard, enjoy the rest of your week.

 

[Biohazard]

It isn't arrogance to say that it has no relevance to the statement or the opinion I made and if anything I cannot be bothered to engage you when you decide to get personal and belligerent.

It wasn't just that though was it.

This is what you said Castiel;

"Then it has nothing to do with anything I have said and is therefore pointless to the debate"

You don't want to engage when you've been caught saying something silly, more like.

This always creeps into your debates, accusations, insults, misrepresentation, rhetoric and simply ignoring what the other has to say if it isn't compliant with your specific opinion or shows your opinion to be somewhat less vaunted than you think it is. I am not interested in such rubbish and it happens often enough that I simply will ignore you from now on, I have gone to great lengths to offer you the benefit of the doubt at every opportunity with regard to your debating style and whether you hold any inherent prejudices or not and I will continue to do so, but I will not debate with you any further as it always degenerates into this kind of infantile bickering.

Goodnight Biohazard, enjoy the rest of your week.

Enjoy your spack out!

 

[Castiel]

You have just illustrated my complaint admirably. I was very clear that I was talking about a specific point in relation to the referendum and whether the rest of Scotland agrees with you on whether the Union is falling apart....or the fact that I responded in good faith as regards UK wide issues not specifically subject to independence/referendum.

If you think it is silly then so be it, your opinion is yours to formulate as best you can.

 

[Biohazard]

You have just illustrated my complaint admirably. I was very clear that I was talking about a specific point in relation to the referendum, or the fact that I responded in good faith.

Then it has nothing to do with anything I have said and is therefore pointless to the debate.

 

[Castiel]

Indeed, so why belabour the issue, go to bed...you seem like you need the sleep, I know that's what I am doing.

 

[Bear]

Does this apparent widespread issue disappear with the advent of adulthood?

For part of the electorate allowed to vote, probably not.

 

[Bear]

Do you think it's exclusive to Scotland?

No definately not, but then I wasnt the one trying to pass off the failing of certain kids in the Scottish education system being the fault of the UK government.

 

[kitch9]

It would make me laugh that an "independent" Scotland is forced to join the quickly becoming a socialist headbanger dictatorship the Euro and they are promptly forced to hand over full control of their budgets and laws to Brussels in the name of "integration."

Independence indeed, Salmonds wet dream is drying out.

 

[Biohazard]

It would make me laugh that an "independent" Scotland is forced to join the quickly becoming a socialist headbanger dictatorship the Euro and they are promptly forced to hand over full control of their budgets and laws to Brussels in the name of "integration."

Independence indeed, Salmonds wet dream is drying out.

Scotland can't be 'forced' to join the Euro, it has to have its own currency to engage with the prerequisite exchange mechanism(s) in the first place.