Does UKIP have any longevity in politics?

D13 said:
ukip is a rising party, i am 30 I never vote in my whole life, never believed in a a politician/party before. The idea that i could scour youtube just to see his views on subject and hear him debate, I never felt compelled to do that before for any party leader. I will now take that walk down to the voting booth and show my support. One thing is certain, the ruling political elite should be very worried indeed cos the british people are so incredibly fed up with them.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't put too much stock in Farage. He's a good showman but he doesn't have the connections or political capital to do it in Westminster. His daddy wasn't a barrister and he didn't go to Oxbridge, so there's very little chance he'll get anywhere near a significant position in parliament. At best he might get an arm's length assassination like the Liberal Democrats have suffered under Clegg.

More importantly, UKIP's rise to prominence might mean we actually get a sensible debate on immigration and integration that we've sorely needed since the 1960s. Hopefully one not disrupted by "herp derp racism" when discussing whether or not we need more workless, uneducated numpties in the country.
 
Freakbro said:
I can point out exactly the same people on the 'right' who can't say anything about the 'left' without it becoming a foaming at the mouth rant that we are all communists who want to steal all their worldy goods and give it the undeserving scum :D
Click to expand...

In the last general election I manage to 'out' at least 3 people on this forum that wanted exactly that. Britboy was one, Scorza was two and I forgot who was the third. They stated out a little left wing and when pushed it transpired that they would love to see a full blown communist state in the UK that would love to see anyone who was richer then them simply have their savings taken away from them.

I know MoonX would freely admit that would be his wet dream too. So sorry but I do think the left here are closet communists
 
Last edited:
and the funny thing is we sort of do already know what the three parties would do, they consistently betray the uk people so we know we are screwed whoever we get
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter who you vote for. The Government always wins!
 
D13 said:
But honestly come on, what kind of argument is it to write paragraph about x y z problem we have in this country and then say "UKIP have nothing to say about this".
Click to expand...

Considering UKIP have been going for 20 years I think its a very good argument to point out that they have no actual policies in some areas.
 
ubersonic said:
Considering UKIP have been going for 20 years I think its a very good argument to point out that they have no actual policies in some areas.
Click to expand...

but that article is so unbelievably biased (its typical of anti-ukip reporting thats been going for many years).
People keep saying ukip are one party issue or have no policies, that's really funny because every single time nigel farage is put in front of seasoned experienced journalists and politicians who clearly want to mock or ridicule him, he makes them look sooo stupid every single time over and over.
im sure many politicians will try to avoid being in debate with him as it makes them look so bad.

If you go to youtube there is so many examples where he stands up and openly answers peoples questions, i saw one recently where he visited canterbury university and a lot of these kids had their questions ready to shoot him down, no mincing of words or cover up of the clear preconception they had of him.
Every single time he makes his counter point clear and concise, common sense always answering question directly. You see farage in places where the current political elite wouldn't be caught dead.
 
Yamahahahahaha said:
I wouldn't put too much stock in Farage. He's a good showman but he doesn't have the connections or political capital to do it in Westminster. His daddy wasn't a barrister and he didn't go to Oxbridge, so there's very little chance he'll get anywhere near a significant position in parliament. At best he might get an arm's length assassination like the Liberal Democrats have suffered under Clegg.

More importantly, UKIP's rise to prominence might mean we actually get a sensible debate on immigration and integration that we've sorely needed since the 1960s. Hopefully one not disrupted by "herp derp racism" when discussing whether or not we need more workless, uneducated numpties in the country.
Click to expand...
this is exactly one of the reasons people support him.
you right for so long just mentioning immigration means that you are racist, xenophobe jesus what an absurdity. When it comes to the economy no subject should be off the table. If someone is mature and objective then why cant we discuss all important issues.
 
robgmun said:
In the last general election I manage to 'out' at least 3 people on this forum that wanted exactly that. Britboy was one, Scorza was two and I forgot who was the third. They stated out a little left wing and when pushed it transpired that they would love to see a full blown communist state in the UK that would love to see anyone who was richer then them simply have their savings taken away from them.

I know MoonX would freely admit that would be his wet dream too. So sorry but I do think the left here are closet communists
Click to expand...
I have a feeling you don't really know what communism is.

You are aware that you sound like a "Bill O'Reilly sound board". (something you really should be ashamed of).
 
RDM said:
Unfortunately that is what practical communism tends to turn in to rather than the theoretical ideal.
Click to expand...
Indeed, but from the way he's talking about it he doesn't seem to know what either are.

When it starts to sound like the Glenn Beck show is usually when the brains have fallen out of a point anybody was trying to make.
 
elmarko said:
I have a feeling you don't really know what communism is.

You are aware that you sound like a "Bill O'Reilly sound board". (something you really should be ashamed of).
Click to expand...

In any situation where communism isn't 100% consenting by everyone involved, it cannot be any other way.
 
Dolph said:
In any situation where communism isn't 100% consenting by everyone involved, it cannot be any other way.
Click to expand...
Similar to the opposing view on the point of ownership of land & resources (of which consent was not 100% given therefore it's equally wrong?).

It's odd that people think that a collection land ownership based system is more "theft" than any private land ownership system.

Not that that was the point anyway, I was referring to robgmun & his mouth foaming rhetoric - "outing people" lol...
 
elmarko said:
It's odd that people think that a collection land ownership based system is more "theft" than any private land ownership system.
Click to expand...

It wouldn't be theft is you were starting from scratch where nothing was owned by to convert to a communist 'economy' now would require the forced removal of land, property and wealth.

Humans are naturally aspirational, that's what communism ignores. When communists talk about 'collective ownership' what they really mean 'no ownership'.

Anyway here's a rather funky and quick explanation why communism doesn't fit with human nature....

 
estebanrey said:
It wouldn't be theft is you were starting from scratch where nothing was owned by to convert to a communist 'economy' now would require the forced removal of land, property and wealth.

Humans are naturally aspirational, that's what communism ignores. When communists talk about 'collective ownership' what they really mean 'no ownership'.

Anyway here's a rather funky and quick explanation why communism doesn't fit with human nature....
Click to expand...
I've yet to see compelling evidence that human nature is so set.

We simply fit into the society we are born - to say we are naturally materialistic and greedy is akin to staring at a puddle in a hole in the ground & gaping in awe at how well formed the hole is to the puddles form.

Besides, you can be aspirational & co-operative - the field of human motivation is far more complex than the average pro-capitalist person would assume.

But back on track for the OP - UKIP are not even Libertarian capitalist either - they are socially conservative nationalist/pro defence spending/intervention - very similar to American republicans.

It's a massive step backwards to vote for that kind of party & anybody who did so is an idiot (no offence to those who did) - but you simply didn't understand exactly what you were voting for, or you really are a small minded racist little homophobe (not aimed at you btw - I have no idea who you voted for).
 
Last edited:
Nitefly said:
UKIP will be around as long as the major parties fail to explain the necessity of the EU and address issues of concern to the public.

European law is generally wonderfully pro-individual. Health and safety, consumer rights, financial services... just an endless list of ways that people have benefited yet remain blissfully unaware.

My biggest bugbear is 'Herp derp the EU and human rights'.

1) Arrrgh the EU and the European Court of Human Rights are not the same thing;
2) The EU requires countries to adopt the charter following the Lisbon Treaty to bring everyone up to a base standard, but is not responsible for the decisions of that court
3) The Human Rights Act was not a result of EU pressure, it was entirely directional. Furthermore, it is on the whole a resoundingly good thing as it makes individuals access rights they'd otherwise had to apply to Europe to get (£££££££).
2) If you think the Convention is a bad thing, seriously, die.
Click to expand...

The EU as it has morphed into we do not need. Its a mess and its breeding contempt among its people. It appears to have forgot the people it was set up to benefit.....

We need the EU of the 80's not this quasi dictatorship we appear to be railroading towards.
 
elmarko said:
I've yet to see compelling evidence that human nature is so set.
Click to expand...

If it wasn't set it wouldn't be human nature. I'm talking about traits, instincts and emotions that we have as animals.

These aren't things that can be talked out of you or changed by reading Karl Marx anymore than sexual desires can be eliminated by taking a vow of celibacy.

Here's another way of looking at it. My cat has food on tap whenever he wants, he doesn't have to go out and hunt but he still does, why? Because it's just instinctive to him. In the same way if you had communism and could somehow ensure everyone had a comfortable standard of living, there would always be people who would want to work for an even better life.

You can't just expect humanity (or any of the animal kingdom) to drop this natural aspiration.

elmarko said:
We simply fit into the society we are born - to say we are naturally materialistic and greedy is akin to staring at a puddle in a hole in the ground & gaping in awe at how well formed the hole is to the puddles form.
Click to expand...

I said people are naturally aspirational, that's not the same as saying people are greedy and materialistic.

When Usain Bolt lines up for a 100 metres race, does he think "I want to win this race" or does he think "I hope we all cross the line at the same time and no one wins"?

elmarko said:
Besides, you can be aspirational & co-operative - the field of human motivation is far more complex than the average pro-capitalist person would assume.
Click to expand...

Sure people will often do selfless things but you'd be hard pressed to find any communist states historically that have been the beacon of invention and innovation.
 
robgmun said:
I don't need anything fixed by you thank you very much :rolleyes:

More then any of the others

Labour Lies
Click to expand...

Off course they lie. So does the Tories. So does LibDems. They all lie and cover their own arses. There's really nobody to vote for. Screw my 'civic' duty by feeling compelled to vote for a bunch of liars that'll say ANYTHING to get elected before going the exact opposite way after election. Yet morons fall for it election after election through a weird sense of 'duty'. Just don't participate in their nonsense. Would make zero difference either way.
 
elmarko said:
It's a massive step backwards to vote for that kind of party & anybody who did so is an idiot (no offence to those who did) - but you simply didn't understand exactly what you were voting for, or you really are a small minded racist little homophobe (not aimed at you btw - I have no idea who you voted for).
Click to expand...

You are aware that adding "no offence" to something doesn't actually stop it from being offensive?

You are also missing quite a few motivations where voting for UKIP with the full knowledge of what they are like and what their polices are can mean someone is neither racist nor homophobic. For example you may want the major parties to take more note of the problems immigration causes for your demographic, a protest vote for a largely anti immigration party if it gains enough support can cause the major parties to change their policies.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom