Israel launches strike on Syria

Castiel · 6 May 2013 at 13:52

Lazder said:
Its funny how those Israel attacks are seen as near to normal... Imagine what would happen if Russia bombed rebels warehouses and positions on accounts that there is weapons leak to Russian militants in Chechnya region... Which is a very fair excuse, whole world and media would go absolute bonkers... But Israel its ok... they went through holocaust they are allowed.

You have a point insofar that the world (or at least parts of it) do disagree with Russia's defence of itself in Chechnya, however Russia does systematically bomb targets in Chechnya all the time, it is just not reported very often, also while the situations are similar although the Chechens do not want to remove Russia from the Map, they simply want their right to self determination. While most Palestinians want the same, there are factions involved that are diametrically opposed to the very existence of Israel as a State which complicates matters.

areksnumbr1sxylady · 6 May 2013 at 13:56

Castiel said:
You have a point insofar that the world (or at least parts of it) do disagree with Russia's defence of itself in Chechnya, however Russia does systematically bomb targets in Chechnya all the time, it is just not reported very often, also while the situations are similar although the Chechens do not want to remove Russia from the Map, they simply want their right to self determination. While most Palestinians want the same, there are factions involved that are diametrically opposed to the very existence of Israel as a State which complicates matters.

Please dont forget that Chechnya is part of Russia, Russia has full right to bomb their own territories... Russia does not go bomb countries that supplied weaponaries to their enemies... Hell during 2008 Georgian war, Ukraine has supplied their AA missiles to Georgia... They were handled by Ukranian crews... Russia didnt go and bomb Ukranian factories or am I missing something here?

In response to Tefal about world not caring about anything... Do you remember the news in summer 2008 when Georgian war broke out??? I mean especially American networks were full of news demonizing Russias actions so much false information was leaked and given.. Just watch this video ;

areksnumbr1sxylady · 6 May 2013 at 14:04

It seems that the world doesnt care when the west does something appalling... but as soon as countries which oppose the west lift the finger, the whole world media is onto them... Saying how bad they are.

Tefal · 6 May 2013 at 14:05

Lazder said:
In response to Tefal about world not caring about anything... Do you remember the news in summer 2008 when Georgian war broke out??? I mean especially American networks were full of news demonizing Russias actions so much false information was leaked and given.. Just watch this video ;

yep i remember that, then i remember a few months passing and there being nothing, i also remember no action and nothing other than the news reporting it just like they've reported this strike.

Please dont forget that Chechnya is part of Russia, Russia has full right to bomb their own territories...

O.O

interesting if somewhat disturbing viewpoint.

areksnumbr1sxylady · 6 May 2013 at 14:09

Tefal said:
yep i remember that, then i remember a few months passing and there being nothing, i also remember no action and nothing other than the news reporting it just like they've reported this strike.

O.O

interesting if somewhat disturbing viewpoint.

US/Israel has right to overthrow whole regimes for their "security" but as soon as Russia starts bombing armed millitants on its territories it becomes a disturbing viewpoint... brilliant

Just to add, about nothing happening due to Russian war with Georgia

"Initially the Bush Administration considered a military response to defend Georgia, but such an intervention was ruled out due to the inevitable conflict it would lead to with Russia.[339][340] Instead, Bush opted for a softer option by sending humanitarian supplies to Georgia by military, rather than civilian, aircraft."

Castiel · 6 May 2013 at 14:13

Lazder said:
Please dont forget that Chechnya is part of Russia, Russia has full right to bomb their own territories... Russia does not go bomb countries that supplied weaponaries to their enemies... Hell during 2008 Georgian war, Ukraine has supplied their AA missiles to Georgia... They were handled by Ukranian crews... Russia didnt go and bomb Ukranian factories or am I missing something here?

In response to Tefal about world not caring about anything... Do you remember the news in summer 2008 when Georgian war broke out??? I mean especially American networks were full of news demonizing Russias actions so much false information was leaked and given.. Just watch this video ;

You are missing the point, Russia, China and others also systematically denounce Israel...in fact many western Nations also do. There is a reason why the Palestinians got special status at the UN after all. Don't simply read the news and assume that it is representative of the actual mood outside of the demographic they are aimed at.

Also the Israeli's, at least the Revisionist Zionists (like Likud) see Palestine and several other historical territories as being their birthright, it is not as dissimilar to Chechnya in that regard if you want to talk about arguable rights to bombing what they consider their own territory.

Tefal · 6 May 2013 at 14:13

Lazder said:
US/Israel has right to overthrow whole regimes for their "security" but as soon as Russia starts bombing armed millitants on its territories it becomes a disturbing viewpoint... brilliant

i don't think i've ever said america has the right to otherthrow regiemes?

but lets put your words differently.

"Please dont forget that Cambridge is part of the UK, the UK has full right to bomb their own territories... "

Do you not think the view point that the British government would have the right to bomb other parts of Britain is disturbing?

if Scotland tries to leave like Chechnya should we go in and occupy it?

Just to add, about nothing happening due to Russian war with Georgia

"Initially the Bush Administration considered a military response to defend Georgia, but such an intervention was ruled out due to the inevitable conflict it would lead to with Russia.[339][340] Instead, Bush opted for a softer option by sending humanitarian supplies to Georgia by military, rather than civilian, aircraft."

so they sent food and medical supplies in a 747 painted green instead of white?

not too sure about the big deal there?

Guile · 6 May 2013 at 14:17

Lazder said:
Surely Israel should see the "rebels" who are essentially terrorist as a much bigger threat than Assad?? So why are they helping rebels then?

Israel's objective is to break the Shia Axis by replacing this modern, secular country and its capable army with a bunch of rag-tag militias. Israel cannot have friendly neighbours as these people have to live under the Zionist jackboot, so it will settle for throwing its neighbours into being divided and conquered. Also, when these Sunni radicals take over neighbouring states - it gives Israel some really good PR opportunities to drag Western bood and gold to fight more wars for their racial empire by saying 'help us against these radical Jihadist - we are democracy lovers like you'.

Tefal said:
sorry but you really can't use "the land isn't theirs"

What claims can these (mostly) Khazars have on Palestine when they originated from the Caucasus?

Theophany said:
the Syrian rebels have no beef with Israel

Utterly clueless. Jihadist groups don't have beef with Israel? Let's not forget Israel has been occupying Syrian territory since 1967.

areksnumbr1sxylady · 6 May 2013 at 14:18

Castiel said:
You are missing the point, Russia, China and others also systematically denounce Israel...in fact many western Nations also do. There is a reason why the Palestinians got special status at the UN after all. Don't simply read the news and assume that it is representative of the actual mood outside of the demographic they are aimed at.

Also the Israeli's, at least the Revisionist Zionists (like Likud) see Palestine and several other historical territories as being their birthright, it is not as dissimilar to Chechnya in that regard if you want to talk about arguable rights to bombing what they consider their own territory.

There is a massive difference between Chechnya region and Israel... For one Russia dont treat Chechens as trash... they are considered Russian Citizens and have exactly same rights as any other Russians... Chechnya as a Region is not discriminated at all, in fact they receive far more funding that other Russian regions due to the need to rebuilt everything after 2 wars... Unlike Israelis who openly discriminate against Palestinians I already mentioned examples of muslims not being allowed to live in Israeli settlements etc etc...

This is Grozny about 10-15 years ago (while independent from Russia)

This is Grozny now (As a member of Russian Federation)

Tefal · 6 May 2013 at 14:19

Guile said:
What claims can these (mostly) Khazars have on Palestine when they originated from the Caucasus?

same claim you have to wherever the hell you live in all likely hood.

Castiel · 6 May 2013 at 14:32

Lazder said:
There is a massive difference between Chechnya region and Israel... For one Russia dont treat Chechens as trash... they are considered Russian Citizens and have exactly same rights as any other Russians... Chechnya as a Region is not discriminated at all, in fact they receive far more funding that other Russian regions due to the need to rebuilt everything after 2 wars... Unlike Israelis who openly discriminate against Palestinians I already mentioned examples of muslims not being allowed to live in Israeli settlements etc etc...

Again you are the one making comparisons, I agreed with some and disagreed with others..you are making claims and then changing them to suit the replies you are receiving which seems rather strange.

For what it is worth and I am very critical of the Israeli Administration and consider it to be persecuting a type of apartheid in Israel at the moment.

areksnumbr1sxylady · 6 May 2013 at 14:52

Tefal said:
i don't think i've ever said america has the right to otherthrow regiemes?

but lets put your words differently.

"Please dont forget that Cambridge is part of the UK, the UK has full right to bomb their own territories... "

Do you not think the view point that the British government would have the right to bomb other parts of Britain is disturbing?

if Scotland tries to leave like Chechnya should we go in and occupy it?

so they sent food and medical supplies in a 747 painted green instead of white?

not too sure about the big deal there?

Lets remember Ireland...

If Scotland leaves via armed coup, and threatens to de-stabilize whole UK then of course there will be English army in Scotland...

Again dont mix up Chechnya and Scotland... they want to leave via referendum and are already been pressured by UK politically not to leave.. Chechnya from day 1 tried to gain independence by terror methods throughout Russia, with hostage taking situation.

Yes ofcourse 747 only carried food and medical equipment... obviously no weapons and ammunition.

and if tomorrow Cambridge becomes Al-quaeda haven, UK wouldnt bomb it then? Just send a strong worded letter?

[TW]Fox · 6 May 2013 at 14:55

Freakbro said:
And then immediately counter it with your own unfounded speculation portraying what you believe the response to be..

Yes, because I genuinelly beleive it to be the policy of the US Government to issue a facepalm in response :rolleyes:

areksnumbr1sxylady · 6 May 2013 at 15:00

I just find it ridiculous that Teflon even compares situation of bombing Cambridge by UK with situation in Chechnya... Chechnya has extremist groups threatening de-stabilization of whole region those Boston bombers were from that region lets not forget... And yet for some reason it is wrong for Russia to eliminate real terrorists threats on its own territory while other countries such as Israel/USA go as far as bombing factories in other countries to apparently protect themselves...

As I mentioned above, if Cambridge becomes haven of terrorists which are radical and heavily armed and threaten security of UK and whole Europe... I really wouldn't be surprised if Cambridge got bombed by UK and that would be seen as a totally right thing to do.

I would find it more disturbing if UK government didnt bomb extremist Cambridge that threatened whole UK

Truly stupid comparison.

Skii · 6 May 2013 at 15:01

To be anti-Israeli would mean I share a view with George Galloway,

I simply can't do that.

Castiel · 6 May 2013 at 15:14

Lazder said:
Lets remember Ireland...

If Scotland leaves via armed coup, and threatens to de-stabilize whole UK then of course there will be English army in Scotland...

Again dont mix up Chechnya and Scotland... they want to leave via referendum and are already been pressured by UK politically not to leave.. Chechnya from day 1 tried to gain independence by terror methods throughout Russia, with hostage taking situation.

Yes ofcourse 747 only carried food and medical equipment... obviously no weapons and ammunition.

and if tomorrow Cambridge becomes Al-quaeda haven, UK wouldnt bomb it then? Just send a strong worded letter?

The UK didn't bomb Ireland?????

areksnumbr1sxylady · 6 May 2013 at 15:16

Castiel said:
The UK didn't bomb Ireland?????

I didnt say they did... but Uk did have troops in Ireland did they not?? I find it irrelevant to go into a detail on whether air-force was sent in to bomb few targets... the point still stands that there was military intervention.
Actually sending air-force to drop few bombs isnt seen as serious as landing troops in the country... So I dont understand the point you are trying to make.

Castiel · 6 May 2013 at 15:22

Lazder said:
I didnt say they did... but Uk did have troops in Ireland did they not?? I find it irrelevant to go into a detail on whether air-force was sent in to bomb few targets... the point still stands that there was military intervention.

It was a security action with very strict RoE and it was to support the policing of Northern Ireland (which is part of the UK)...there was no military intervention into the Republic of Ireland..so your examples are total nonsense to be fair.

The devil is in the details, so I would say they are totally relevant when you are trying to justify comparisons, especially when the comparisons are so different both in their politics and implementation.

areksnumbr1sxylady · 6 May 2013 at 15:27

Castiel said:
It was a security action with very strict RoE and it was to support the policing of Northern Ireland (which is part of the UK)...there was no military intervention into the Republic of Ireland..so your examples are total nonsense to be fair.

The devil is in the details, so I would say they are totally relevant when you are trying to justify comparisons, especially when the comparisons are so different both in their politics and implementation.

You can paint apple orange... it will be still an Apple. Security action or not... UK military was present in Ireland and 704 UK military soldiers have died according to Wikipedia.. Which is a very high number if this was just a security action especially if you compare it to full blown invasions of iraq/Afghanistan casulties.

areksnumbr1sxylady · 6 May 2013 at 15:34

Btw, Chechnya same as Northern Ireland is part of Russia... Some people in N.Ireland wanted to join Ireland so UK sends in "security forces" to regulate security but for some reason its the guys who wanted northern Ireland to join rep of Ireland seemed to get shot more... This is seen as a normal thing to do...

Once again it shows how brain washed some people are... People view actions of the west as right thing to do while if something similar happens in Russia or in China whole world starts saying how bad they are... Ridicolous... Just proves the point that Israel does what it wants and nothing happens to them since it seen as right thing to do... China or Russia go in Syria tomorrow taking out rebels which by security bases would be right to do... The whole world will go completely bonkers. With sanctions flying left and right and threats of Nato intervention...