Save the NHS!
- Thread starter scorza
- Start date
Yer right. But nice evasion from actually having to back up your assertions with any sort of substantiation.
I don't see you challenging scorza to back up his irrational attacks on anything private. My post was in response to his challenging his claims that private providers will end up like a particular nhs trust which has been found to have caused unnecessary deaths and provided substandard care. My comment, intended to be flippant, was that if the private provider only provides the same level of performance, we haven't lost much. This would be because if they can provide the same, poor level of performance with less staff, they would still compare favourably with north staffs.
It does not imply that all of the nhs is like that, nor does it imply that it would be a standard to aspire to.
Why would I challenge scorza when I am the biggest critic, on these forums, of the private health provision in this country? Whatever next shall we have people saying well I don't see you challenging dolph on the welfare system? Or maybe a historical one? How about I don't see you challenging dirtydog for not mentioning about immigration?
Your flippant comments will never be taken as pure jest, say if biohazard/semipro/RDM/D.P or any other regular poster, because of the context of your consistent attacks and misrepresentation of evidence in regards to the healthcare system.
I am glad to see you recognise that all NHS is not like that and that actually the evidence shows it provides good quality and efficient care - well it currently does - let's how it fares now the information is coming in from the massive cockup the Tories have made. You'll get to slate the NHS all you want soon I suspect and you'll have some evidence to back it up to this time. Nice that Cameron can put his kid through the best kid's hospital in the world on the NHS and then gut the system for everyone else.
Your flippant comments will never be taken as pure jest, say if biohazard/semipro/RDM/D.P or any other regular poster, because of the context of your consistent attacks and misrepresentation of evidence in regards to the healthcare system.
I am glad to see you recognise that all NHS is not like that and that actually the evidence shows it provides good quality and efficient care - well it currently does - let's how it fares now the information is coming in from the massive cockup the Tories have made. You'll get to slate the NHS all you want soon I suspect and you'll have some evidence to back it up to this time. Nice that Cameron can put his kid through the best kid's hospital in the world on the NHS and then gut the system for everyone else.
So essentially you'll not challenge Scorza's posts because you agree with them, even when they are nonsense and damage your cause. Glad we got that cleared up.
How is that different from Scorza's constant attacks on anything private? Or is it as above, that the content doesn't matter because you agree with his position?
If by providing good care you mean consistently lags behind the rest of Europe that uses the kind of system I advocate then sure.
I'm willing to be swung by evidence that not all the NHS is bad, are you willing to be swung by evidence that breaking the monolith may not be all bad, or are you another Scorza?
I disagree with how private health care is provided in this country. It is not for me to defend something I strongly disagree with, even if it is misrepresented, when I could post a challenge against something I do disagree with. It's called efficiency - something the NHS is rather good at according the numerous reports.
Again I don't agree with a lot of his points but I am hardly going to defend something I don't believe in. I don't agree with the way the city conducts itself so you don't see my jumping to its defense. I don't agree with the way the USA handles the world stage so you don't seem me jumping to its defense. Likewise though you don't see me often mentioning them in criticism. Again efficiency.
You have been shown by myself, and many others, plenty of evidence to show this is complete rubbish. Lots and lots. I have shown numerous times using examples (which you then misapplied):
1) How we treat more conditions than on the continent
2) How less money goes into the system here.
3) That the NHS is efficient and effective.
Every piece you seem to have ignored. So you'll excuse me for thinking the pot-kettle-black. If you had of actually bothered to read what I've put you'd see I am strongly critical of the NHS and a number of its practices but to think that hasn't stemmed from lack of financial input is rubbish. All you do is trot out one report to substantiate this chip you have on your should whilst ignoring all the evidence provided to the contrary. Where is you evidence it is not effective? Where is your evidence to demonstrate that the money labour put in to actually get the spending closer to European levels didn't make improvements? Or right you've never had any ... ever. Where do you get these ideas from because it is not the real world.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22460741
A&E facing serious problem, Health Minister admits. CQC have issued a warning about the state of A&E in England which was accepted by the government.
Still think the NHS isn't dying?
A&E facing serious problem, Health Minister admits. CQC have issued a warning about the state of A&E in England which was accepted by the government.
Still think the NHS isn't dying?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22529561
NHS A&E services on the verge of collapsing. The loss of confidence in the 111 service coupled with the withdrawal of other NHS services as spending cuts bite has resulted in a massive increase in the number of people visiting A&E. Heard from a senior A&E doctor this morning who is regularly working 16 hour shifts - it's completely unsustainable.
NHS A&E services on the verge of collapsing. The loss of confidence in the 111 service coupled with the withdrawal of other NHS services as spending cuts bite has resulted in a massive increase in the number of people visiting A&E. Heard from a senior A&E doctor this morning who is regularly working 16 hour shifts - it's completely unsustainable.
Deleted member 651465
Deleted member 651465
I know we have issues with staffing and patient volumes as there's constantly a site alert in red put out on the work pcs (regarding A&E), although it could be eased significantly if there were more out of hours services IMO.
As ever, it's not any one thing that pushes a system to collapse, but holistic change. In any case, GPs have been able to opt out since 2004 and it's only now that we've reached breaking point.
The 111 system was always going to have a lot of issues on roll out. See what the situation is like in a few months.
That being said, A&E and general specialist units are stretched due to a lack of suitable staff coming through training. They need to reorganize to ensure they're all fully staffed (regardless of other changes occurring).
That being said, A&E and general specialist units are stretched due to a lack of suitable staff coming through training. They need to reorganize to ensure they're all fully staffed (regardless of other changes occurring).
Health Minister Jeremy Hunt scraping the barrel today, blaming Labour for the GP contracts that the Royal College of Physicians mentioned as one of the causes of the current A&E crisis. Some guy from the RCP on C4 new ripping Jeremy a new one. For the avoidance of doubt, this is a whole system problem and not attributable to any one thing. Nevertheless it is a very serious problem NOW, why aren't the government doing anything about it? The minister's complacency is damaging.
We looked at emergency admissions over the winter period 2013 in our hospital and compared basic epidemiology and presenting complaints to the situation a number of years ago. It was the most terrible 4 months the hospital had ever experienced. Example: a 'black' breach is when a patient is sitting in an ambulance and can't even get through the door - the hospital hadn't had a single black breach in its history, and in one day around Christmas it had five.
Main differences in admissions: much larger numbers of totally unnecessary admissions of elderly, often demented, patients who did not need hospital care, who simply did not have enough social support, did not have community medical advice available, or who's families could not (or did not want) to cope with them. Larger numbers of borderline admissions with next day discharges, who may not have been admitted in the past.
It was a small bit of data mining so don't take the conclusions to heart, but two basic patterns we could see. (1) Disproportionate increase in admissions in the elderly, dependant population (2) Disproportionate increase in admissions of patients 'to be on the safe side'...is this secondary to lack of community treatment available, and increase in compensation culture?
In addition, we can't discharge these elderly patients without full packages of care and possibly with nursing home placements (if their family dumps them in A&E, and if they go home without a full care package arranged and have a fall, the hospital gets sued by the family). Result is big bed-blockage.
TLDR: A&Es are collapsing under the weight of increased patient load. It's a public health problem. Where are all these extra patients coming from?
Main differences in admissions: much larger numbers of totally unnecessary admissions of elderly, often demented, patients who did not need hospital care, who simply did not have enough social support, did not have community medical advice available, or who's families could not (or did not want) to cope with them. Larger numbers of borderline admissions with next day discharges, who may not have been admitted in the past.
It was a small bit of data mining so don't take the conclusions to heart, but two basic patterns we could see. (1) Disproportionate increase in admissions in the elderly, dependant population (2) Disproportionate increase in admissions of patients 'to be on the safe side'...is this secondary to lack of community treatment available, and increase in compensation culture?
In addition, we can't discharge these elderly patients without full packages of care and possibly with nursing home placements (if their family dumps them in A&E, and if they go home without a full care package arranged and have a fall, the hospital gets sued by the family). Result is big bed-blockage.
TLDR: A&Es are collapsing under the weight of increased patient load. It's a public health problem. Where are all these extra patients coming from?
I think you've partly answered your own question, reduction in social care services across the country means these people who desperately need help have nowhere else to go.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22758157
NHS misses its waiting time targets for first three months of year. Reports of temporary facilities being set up in car parks. Still the Health Secretary does nothing.
NHS misses its waiting time targets for first three months of year. Reports of temporary facilities being set up in car parks. Still the Health Secretary does nothing.
This! I'm a student social worker but also work as an HCA sometimes in a&e for extra money, adult social care is destroyed people are coming into a&e and being given a bed in assessment units because they have no social care or their families can no longer cope, it's ridiculous you have people with no medical need being given beds in hospital, as no one else can help