Tongue-sewn diet patch makes eating painful

[aln]

Quite the opposite.

We are suggesting people look at the bigger picture & examine the causes as to why the person over-eats - instead of parroting a single line of "eat less lol".

I have nothing against that but I still think parroting the line of "eat less and excercise" helps in general. Myself, I gained about a stone when my GF left me. Comfort eating, bit depressed, etc. Sugar becomes addictive.

Nobody called me fat. Nobody told me to sort myself out. Nobody offered suggestions about excercise or dieting. People told me it was in my head, until someone told me it wasn't. I was told to go to gym and stop eating crap, so I did. But not until someone pointed it out.

This is the same for most folks in my personal experience, we all deny when we have problems and until confronted with it, where many of us are happy to do something about it.

Define "mind over matter", if you are talking about how our mental states can impact on our general health & well-being then yes - but if you are talking about some new-age hippy bull**** then no.

The former, but that it can be overcome. The same way someone can give up smoking, they can give up an excess of bad diet and sugar. You tell them they can and it's their own ******* fault, and they're more likely to do so.

I'm not being nice, I'm being pragmatic.

I'm saying.

"You eat too much because you are a sugar addict, have an array of eating disorders & have never established a healthy attitude towards food, to diet you will not only need to diet & exercise but you will need to change potentially some quite difficult personality traits & firstly admit you need to to achieve this".

Actually, theres nothing there that can't be sumerised pretty quickly with "your diet is crap and you need exercise".

Most people know the basics, we also know it's complicated, and if you give them a speil about how some folks metabolisms make it near impossible, they'll use that as an excuse to never really try and that's where most people fail.

Tell them they have a problem and it's a simple case of calories in vs calories out, plus avoiding sugar, and all of a sudden it feels like it's feasible and within their control.

 

[Glaucus]

Marginally overweight and people didnt say anything. Not surprising lots of people have a bit of a belly.
Trust me when you are properly fat people do say. It doesn't help at all. You are well aware you are fat. What you need is information and the information you have out there is a hinders ce not a help.

Tell them they have a problem and it's a simple case of calories in vs calories out, plus avoiding sugar, and all of a sudden it feels like it's feasible and within their control.

And no it is not as simple as that at all and with just that isn't within reach for many.

 

[Pestilence]

In a rather funny roundabout way, everyone here is actually agreeing with eachother to various degrees about each and every point.

Not sure if anyone else has noticed it.

 

[aln]

Marginally overweight and people didnt say anything. Not surprising lots of people have a bit of a belly.
Trust me when you are properly fat people do say. It doesn't help at all. You are well aware you are fat. What you need is information and the information you have out there is a hinders ce not a help.


And no it is not as simple as that at all and with just that isn't within reach for many.

Most people don't even start. My mum is quite a bit overwieght. She complains about it. What does she do about it? She sits on her backside, whining and goes through boughts of trying to starve, then binge eating on crap.

Pretty much every other fat person I've met is the same when it comes to their weight. They don't try a normal / low calorie diet and take up running, they just talk about how hard it is when in reality everyone who got in shape got there by doing, not complaining.

 

[Glaucus]

I find that extremely hard to belive, perhaps they just don't talk to you about it, or anyone else. Can could almost bet taht every single one of them has tried many many diets over the years.

Running is not a great solution. Increased weight and the impact from the running. Walking is better, people say swimming but this isn't a great suggestion either due to body image insecurites for many. Cycling is also another good one depending how over weight.
It has to be a lot of changes over many areas.

 

[Sudden]

They don't try a normal / low calorie diet and take up running, they just talk about how hard it is when in reality everyone who got in shape got there by doing, not complaining.

You can do both!

I try and do (admittedly, I am one of those who is a bit overweight but is just too lazy to do a lot about it) by trying to eat a bit healthier and go to the gym when I can, but doesn't mean I can't complain when doing it!

 

[aln]

I find that extremely hard to belive, perhaps they just don't talk to you about it, or anyone else. Can could almost bet taht every single one of them has tried many many diets over the years.

Sure, they try crazy diets because they want quick fixes and pine for promises of "eat what you want, stay thin" but everyone, including fat people, knows that's a load of crap. From going to the gym classes, almost everyone who attends and doesn't stop coming loses weight.

Losing weight isn't really about quick wins, it's about a long term change. We aren't disagreeing on the fundementals, but what I am saying is from experience, the people who stay fat, do so because they give up. (the fact many people work 8+ hours a day on a desk, then commute for 2, then want to spend some time with the kids / other half, and have your prepare your meals in that limited time, probably has more to do with giving up than it fundamentally being difficult).

What do you think is so different now from the past where we didn't have such an obesity problem? Obviously quick access to preprocessed foods and lack of exercise in work, but is there anything else because if it's just that then it boils down to people being inherently lazier, and part of that is due to our PC attitudes.

Running is not a great solution. Increased weight and the impact from the running. Walking is better, people say swimming but this isn't a great suggestion either due to body image insecurites.
It has to be a lot of changes over many areas.

Running is good assuming you don't have joint pain or the like, because you'll expend more calories over a shorter period of time. However, part of that is trying to combat the fact exercise isn't really exciting, so it's about making the exercise shorter or more fun. I go to classes, better banter, less boring. The point is, anything is better than nothing.


Going back to your point about "Marginally overweight and people didnt say anything.", most folks don't start off fat. Sure some are fat when they're young, but for everyone else, having a belly that others can see probably puts you at fairly overweight and this is when you need to be made aware. The longer you leave it, the harder it will be to lose.

P.S. By far the biggest reason people don't go to gym, in my opinion, is because "nobody to go with".

 

[Glaucus]

Many many reasons, for a start our diets have changed drastically, our lifestyles have changed drastically, food is easier and cheaper, bad advice, media/magazines.
It is so different these days, and it all adds up.

I know I can't handle grains flours/pastas/bread etc. I eat the, I get hungry within an hour and it doesn't matter if I eat it with a high dose of protien a or fats. Cut them out and I'm ok. Sugar I can tolerate in small amounts until I get addicted.

Rather than just telling people that calories in needs to be less. Why not actually try having a conversation, suggest they read up on things like high protiene low carb if they now a normal advice doesn't work. Point out common triggers like bordem, depression etc. suggest they read up on insulin levels etc. suggest that quick fixes that media press won't work and as well as the sorting out the diet (depending how their body reacts) they need a totally different mind set. Could probe by asking them if there's anything they've always wanted to do but either can't or our to embarrassed.

Telling them they are fat and to eat less isn't going to work for 99% of people, most people are well aware they are fat and that ultimately you need few calories. Way people aren't aware of and really really need to know is how to achieve less calories in a sustainable way.


Anything is better tan nothing, but your advice won't help most people, it's not even advice it's saying something they already now and doesn't awnser the question of how to achieve it and for that you really do have to read up on the different types of diet, two most common being high carb low fat and high protien high fat low carb and how this can affect insulin and other responses, just because one way of eating works for one person does not man it'll work for another. You do need to get a bit sciencey.

A simple thing which burns a surprising amount of calories and most people can do regardless of fitness level, is rather than shopping on the way home or going to the corner shop, find a shop a mile or two away and walk there and back most days.

 

[aln]

....

I dare say what you've explained is pretty much fits in with calories in vs calories out.

You get hungry after eating bread, thus you eat more, thus taking in more calories. It's pretty easy for someone with a calories in vs calories out mindset to realise certain foods have certain effects on their body.

You don't need to go sciency to get to "it doesn't fill me" and "it makes me crave", those are walls most people will hit by just trying, and they'll be able to count the calories while doing it.

What people find difficult is knowing whether or not they're eating enough of the right kinds of vitiamins, and having a "balanced diet", but at this point most people seem to go "meh, too hard, give up, going mcdonalds".

I still think it mostly comes down to will power so we can agree to disagree, but if you have any fat friends that whine, make him a gym buddy and I'm fairly sure your opinion will change.

 

[theleg]

There's a lot of fluff in this thread. It's cals in/cals out at its root. That's the underlying point and it still stands in spite of peoples' protestations. Whether you succeed or fail is down to mental strength, nothing else.

Why do people insist on taking it down to an almost childlike level of simplicity?

Its like saying the key to becoming a millionaire is money in > money out. At its root, its true but there is so much more to it that the formula becomes laughable.

 

[theleg]

Most people don't even start. My mum is quite a bit overwieght. She complains about it. What does she do about it? She sits on her backside, whining and goes through boughts of trying to starve, then binge eating on crap.

Pretty much every other fat person I've met is the same when it comes to their weight. They don't try a normal / low calorie diet and take up running, they just talk about how hard it is when in reality everyone who got in shape got there by doing, not complaining.

Absolute rubbish. Either you are outright lying to try and further your point, or you are unaware of their dietary history. I can assure you that obese people dont suddenly wake up one day and think 'omg im fat, im going on a cabbage soup diet'...In almost all cases they have done tons and tons of different diets and the first ones are usually the regular healthy eating types. They turn to the extreme when they are much bigger.

Running? lol...most genuinely fat people would do huge damage to their joints by simply taking up running.

 

[tom_e]

Why do people insist on taking it down to an almost childlike level of simplicity?

Its like saying the key to becoming a millionaire is money in > money out. At its root, its true but there is so much more to it that the formula becomes laughable.

Because it really is that simple, at least to begin with.

 

[theleg]

Because it really is that simple, at least to begin with.

Are you a millionaire? If not, why not?

 

[tom_e]

Are you a millionaire? If not, why not?

Because I don't have millions coming in, overweight people obviously have enough kcals coming in to support and increase their weight.

 

[theleg]

Because I don't have millions coming in, overweight people obviously have enough kcals coming in to support and increase their weight.

Its not about gaining weight, the formula is to lose weight...we are talking about the simplicity of it, not the specifics.

You dont need millions coming in to be a millionaire.

 

[icecold]

It's the stupidity I find more tiresome.

People who don't know anything about the science behind differing metabolic rates

Care to elaborate?

 

[Raikiri]

You dont need millions coming in to be a millionaire.

Well yeah, by definition you do as you haven't specified a period of time. But as you know it's a silly analogy.

Regardless he isn't a millionaire because it takes time, his net worth will increase over time assume money in>money out. As anyone's weight would decrease assuming calories in<calories out.

He may never be a millionaire, in the same way a morbidly obese person may never be an ideal weight however they can both work towards that goal over time.

 

[theleg]

Well yeah, by definition you do as you haven't specified a period of time. But as you know it's a silly analogy.

Regardless he isn't a millionaire because it takes time, his net worth will increase over time assume money in>money out. As anyone's weight would decrease assuming calories in<calories out.

He may never be a millionaire, in the same way a morbidly obese person may never be an ideal weight however they can both work towards that goal over time.

but if it were so simple, why isnt everyone who has been working 50 years or so a millionaire? thats my point..there is far more to it than a simplistic one liner.

 

[tom_e]

Yes there is far more to it if you want to get that technical and get on to insulin sensitivity and other hormonal responses but there doesn't need to be.

 

[theleg]

Yes there is far more to it if you want to get that technical and get on to insulin sensitivity and other hormonal responses but there doesn't need to be.

Its not just that though, its extremely simple stuff like macronutrient choices that also come into it.

Someone who runs a calorie deficit of 500 calories with 90% of the calories coming from carbs will lose weight but will lose huge amounts of lean mass(which will compound the issue anyway) and be extremely unhealthy and probably very malnourished.

Youre a lifter right? You know the importance of doing things correctly and the huge difference between losing weight and losing fat.