Sorry bro but if you're going to try and invoke psychology / neuroscience then you should make an effort to understand it.
Tongue-sewn diet patch makes eating painful
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Sorry bro but if you're going to try and invoke psychology / neuroscience then you should make an effort to understand it.
Did you even read this study?
It should be made clear that we are not purporting a causal link between sexual abuse and obesity per se but are suggesting a plausible link between the various consequences that are associated with severe childhood adversity and the subsequent development of obesity.
Although some of our demographic matching and statistical control represent methodologic improvement over past studies, we were unable to control for several conditions that may place children at high risk for obesity development. For example, familial histories of psychiatric or substance use disorders and numerous alternative adverse environmental factors such as comorbid neglect, poor nutrition and dietary habits, family dysfunction, and greater social isolation may contribute to the development of obesity in this population independent of the experience of childhood abuse. The extent to which sexual abuse is, in itself, a particularly salient risk factor remains theoretical
Come on mate!
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My good God, anything to actually avoid eating well, exorcising and self-control!
I ****ing hate fatties like these, can we now just stitch their snouts shut because if they eat this much no doubt they'll be spewing a load of bull**** out of their mouth too.
I ****ing hate fatties like these, can we now just stitch their snouts shut because if they eat this much no doubt they'll be spewing a load of bull**** out of their mouth too.
Aside from the obvious stupidity of this tongue patch, surely losing 30lbs in a month cannot be a good idea. Unless the person is very young thy are likely to show some serious excess skin. Although I suspect that the main 'drawback' can be summarised by something Jonathan Ross once said about coming off the Atkins diet. "It's like pulling the ripcord on an inflatable dinghy". Amusing and true, if the 'dieters' go back to their old lifestyle choices.
This patch is an amazing money making device! No application in the extremely overweight, just for people wanting to spend some cash.
Liquidizing McDonald's is common for gastric band patients, as is adjusting the tightness of the band before a holiday so allow for more eating.
Obesity is NOT just a physical problem, it's a combination of mental factors too. Fat people love eating, no matter what you do to divert the digestive system, there are always ways around it.
It's the psychological component that makes me think that during our current generation, even an appetite suppressing medication won't negate the need for obesity surgery.
Liquidizing McDonald's is common for gastric band patients, as is adjusting the tightness of the band before a holiday so allow for more eating.
Obesity is NOT just a physical problem, it's a combination of mental factors too. Fat people love eating, no matter what you do to divert the digestive system, there are always ways around it.
It's the psychological component that makes me think that during our current generation, even an appetite suppressing medication won't negate the need for obesity surgery.
Sudden: I would advise doing something you do enjoy then, although many would argue and just tell you to get on with it
Lol @ thread, so many people going round in circles its hilarious.
Calorie deficit to lose weight, calorie surplus to gain weight.
Some people find it easy to do, others don't.
Some find excuses and binge and lack self control, others just do what's needed.
SOME people actually have eating problems, I for one didn't eat when I was younger due to thinking all I could was fat in the mirror, however I've overcome that now to some extent.
I know. Difficulty I face is that my hours can be somewhat irregular and I don't want to commit to say a martial arts class (one of the few forms of exercise I do enjoy) and then not show up. Gym is my solution for that alongside eating a relatively healthy lunch and either skipping or having cereal for breakfast (and no, skipping breakfast doesn't mean I snack to make up for it). My dinners are my big meals of the day. I'm aware that it isn't the best way to go, but if you go by the calorie in < calorie out way alone, then it should be fine
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Whilst I agree with everything else you wrote I don't think this is true. Most supermarkets have a huge selection of fruit, veg and meats at low prices. I made a very healthy meal for 4 people tonight for less than a tenner in about 15 minutes.
If you have the time to do everything you said, track what you're eating etc. there's no reason everyone can't do it.
I'm guilty of being a lazy sod too, used to weigh 235lbs at 5'8, then got to 158 5'9 at my lightest and am currently around 180 due to injuring myself and using that as an excuse to be a lazy sod againI was 190 until 3 weeks ago until I started up again.
Exactly. However, you're right about the supermarkets offering good foods, but people aren't interested, they want the frozen section and the shove in the oven/microwave and let it be done. You can buy a ready meal for £1 or something
You don't even have to spend that much money to get decent food - you just have to know how to shove a few ingredients together. I cook for 2 of us, and we're both slim, and I'm a bit of a beast, and can run up and down a rugby pitch for 80 mins (well used to as I don't play any more but am still reasonably match fit). To be able to do that, I have to eat well, and train, but also make a choice not to be lazy!
Good post mate
And well done on the weight loss! 
No - we've just developed a craving owing to the fact they create such an insulin spike. Our digestive systems haven't matured or evolved yet to be carb dominant. Heck some people haven't even evolved to be able to tolerate bovine milk. So we have a long way to go to becoming more evolved, certainly in terms of necessitating carb-rich diets over protein / fat based diets. It's pure gluttony. [/quote]
Will-power/self control is something which develops during very young childhood (studies have already been done on this) - which not everybody seems to have in equal amounts.[/url]
Sure, people have more or less - you can still train yourself not to be such a slave to your supposed needs. If you're too stupid or weak to be doing something to better yourself or make yourself better when you are effectively poisoning yourself then you either need to be restricted on what you're allowed to purchase, have sanctions, or given help, but not that the cost of others. I feel the same way about smokers feeling they deserve a lung transplant on the NHS - tough ****, you've made that choice learn to live with your mistakes, don't bring everybody else down around you. Survival of the fittest and all that. Nature's way of weeding the chaff it seems, is still apparent in modern society.
These links serve nothing towards this discussion as far as I'm concerned. More excuses rather than stepping up to the plate and taking responsibility for your life or making the right (And tough) decisions that need to be done. Mitigation for everything is NOT an acceptable way to live life. "oh no it's ok because of x,y,z...." no. It's not ok. Act up, or shut up. You cannot have your cake and eat it I'm afraid.
Well of course... you can lead a horse to water.... etc... However, isn't that what life is about, you make mistakes, you learn, and you improve? Learn from your peers? See what happens to those around you? Listen to the voices of experience?
Now this is where I almost decided to just pack it in. Of course we have free will. I'm a spiritual person, Christian with my beliefs, but the fact that you feel we have no free will is beyond preposterous that it's almost not worth arguing with someone who truly believes they do not have full control of their lives.
IF not, then I'm just better then most people, by some master plan. Well I should just go around saying "**** you all - I'm alpha, and you're all sooooo beta". No. It doesn't work like that. You get out of life what you put in. The more you put in the more you get out - the fact that you think free will doesn't exist is just another one of these excuses to try and mitigate some failing you have about yourself.
I'm genuinely sorry you're not happy with yourself and you're not in a state or way that you feel you should be - but you CAN do something about it, IF... IF, YOU really want to. No one else can do it for you. There are people that can help, and I'm happy to take this off line to discuss it with you.
The proving/disproving of free will is so subjective, and individualistic and almost an existentialist concept in it's question that it is unanswerable really. We're not here to have a discussion on philosophy.
Not really. Saving up for a gfx card or a night out doesn't strike as negative behaviour - it's a lot more sensible than taking a pay day loan to pay for it. IT shows planning and budgeting and prioritising.
However, if people applied the same behaviour to changing their lifestyles we wouldn't even be having this conversation as people's priorities would no longer be health, as everyone would be healthy as it would become part of their daily life and the way they are.
Of course, but it's also because I enjoy being fit and healthy, and I want to continually improve myself, and I enjoy food! I also like to have a few cheat nights and also be able to have fun guilt free. Furthermore, I've changed my behaviour so much, I no longer crave the bad things so even on a "naughty" day, my food and lifestyle is still good, it just breaks up the routine a little to give something a little different to my week.
Where are you?.
In terms of what? What's the context - in terms of putting diet/food/lifetstyle/health as a priority then yes I would say I'm well removed from the centre SD curve, certainly as more people seem to straying to the eating disorder (both in terms of obesity and anorexia)/poor lifestyle/socially inadequate skew. It's a fact of modern society unfortunately. Everything's online, sports and social interaction are less popular for a lot of younger people, and the ease of staying at home ordering food, playing computer games and not having to move all night is easy to get lost into. I personally would go stir crazy.
You say it so matter of factly - I think it's appalling, and really very worrying.
That is true, but you can learn to improve that, and once you start improving your life, you realise it's no longer self control it becomes a systemic part of your behaviour, and your life then starts to transform and what was once self control is now a de facto state of mind, and the next challenge becomes self control etc... it's a re-iterative step, and it's all about continuous improvement. IF you don't strive to get better, and you're happy to be mediocre, then you should really re-evaluate your life. Everyone should aim to excel at something, or at least improve something about themselves or their lives - if your life means nothing to you then it's a very grey bleak world you live in.
I won't flog a dead horse. I've answered this already.,
I'm sure a lot of them do - but they want an easy fix, they don't want to put the effort in, and when it gets hard, and they have to make sacrifices they dislike it and stop. Well life can be a **** sometimes, and you just have to roll with the punches - sometimes it's a rocky ride, but you know what? /Every time you get back up, and over the crest, you get a feeling that makes you forget all the **** you've had to go through and makes you that little more convinced to keep going onto the next challenge.
I'm not arguing - I'm just saying what I feel, stating things as they are. I call them fatties, as I'd call a black person black, a ginger haired person, ginger, or a guy who is follicly challenged, bald.
So I have no argument to diminish, I'm just too lazy (
A friend of mine was starting to become type 2 diabetic. He overhauled his lifestyle, lost weight, and improved his insulin sensitivity, and changed his whole metabolism. He's had the weight creep on again, but he's happy and still healthy, and his diabetes hasn't returned, and his BP is healthy as is his health. He just holds a little more bodyfat than he'd like, but he's a naturally big guy.
The point of that was that people can change / revolutionise their health if they're willing to put work into it. However, it is SO dangerous to wait to have to do it for a reason, as a lot of damage has been done by that point. I don't keep fit purely for the health reasons and as a preventative measure, but I also happen to enjoy it, and have been active all my life over the past 3+ decades - doing some form of activity. However, I was lucky, I was born in a world where playstations, and 100 channel tvs, internet or computers were not in existence until my late teens/early 20s by then my interests were well and truly established. We all have a responsibility for those around us, especially the younger generation - trying to find excuses to let them get on with whatever they way is such a dire thing to do.
Well they need to seek help - because if they are that bad they have a huge psychological issue. I do not buy all the excuses. Sure, I accept that again going back to our SD curve, most of us fall within the 95% of being able to sort oneself out without any GENUINE health issues, and the 5% exceptions have an "excuse". However, that said, another friend of mine, he's had a few operations and has a thyroid-centric condition, can't remember the name, but I'll ask him, and yes he put on a bit of weight - however, again, he said "enough is enough" and learnt how to overcome his issue, and now runs marathons, does tough mudder and can lift 2.5x his bodyweight in a lot of exercises.
So sure, you may be an exception, and it's easy to find an excuse, but you know what? There is always a way of saying "**** you" to adversity, and showing that you can climb that mountain without your legs, discover new cutting edge science whilst being in a wheelchair unable to write or move, and achieve things in spite of what God, or whatever you believe in has put in your way.
We are strong people, but we are so clever, we try and find excuses rather than use our key strengths - our self determined, inner strength that trumps the most powerful negativity around you. Most people do not know how to unlock their potential, and it's just too easy to give up, sometimes you have to accept you do have to take a few steps backwards to help you build your momentum forward.
They need to start somewhere, and they need to realise they have an issue and need to fix it. Until they accept it and are willing to put the effort in and leave any excuses aside, then no one can help them. If you can't help yourself, you'll never get anywhere.
I'm not offering advice, I'm just pointing out that there are too many excuses, and not enough effort.
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Absolutely what I've been saying from the start. Though you put it a hundred times better. As my grandfather used to say, "there's no shortcut to hard work". If you want something badly enough, you will get it. It will take you time and sacrifices, but you will get it.
If you don't want it, you will make excuses like:
I'm too tired after work to exercise
Healthy food is expensive
I've got too many social events coming up
I'll start next week
I like KFC too much
My family cooks too well
I have Night Eating Syndrome
Etc, etc.
Oh, and there's nothing wrong with calling someone fat. It's a statement of fact, it's not an insult. If they find it offensive, they should do something about it.
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Hah. Very much like my excuses
I do disagree with your last point though. Of course it's an insult. You could call someone an idiot if they're not the brightest bulb in the bunch. It may be a statement of fact, but it is still an insult.
That all being said - at least from what I understand, Glaucus' point is simply that telling people to exercise more and eat less crap is not enough to help them actually do it. Some people need to be given more guidance in terms of how to get started on this. For example - the couch to 5k programme does something like that in my opinion as it splits things up into very manageable chunks. Or suggest easy changes to make and then go from there. For instance, I changed from white rice to brown rice. Apart from taking a little bit longer to cook, I didn't notice a massive difference initially and now prefer it. Has it resulted in weight loss? Don't think so. Is it healthier? From what I understand, yes.
With that explanation? Well no, not really.
People having varying metabolic rates only has one impact on fat loss: people need to find their individual level of calories that causes them to be in a deficit.
Apart from that, it's completely irrelevant. You shoot for a calorie figure (or an easily measured amount of food if you can't be arsed to calorie count) and reduce it slightly if your weight is static for 2 weeks.
I don't totally buy the concept of people being addicted to sugary food, but I don't know much of the science behind it so I won't comment further.
What's more interesting is how people's metabolisms change over time and in response to exercise and diet. However, this doesn't change the basic tenant of fat loss, which is that you need to be in a slight calorie deficit.
To optimise the process you can get more complicated with the stimulation of lipolytic enzymes and other fat burning processes, but the basics are simple and totally sufficient for the kinds of people we're talking about here.
The psychology behind wanting/doing it is a different matter, and has nothing to do with the effective processes of fat loss. My opinion is that some people just don't want it enough, which is fine, but it creates a dissonance that makes them very uncomfortable.
liquidising mcdonalds? god..i cant think of much worse than that..surely it doesnt taste anything like the original form?
i used to liquidise tuna and it was bloody awful..dont even wanna think about liquidised nuggets..
Firstly, it's a theory - one which requires more study.
Secondly. that's not the only study.
Try harder.
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1951240,00.html
http://www.obesityaction.org/educat...icles/sexual-abuse-and-obesity-whats-the-link
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=E991082A85F70868D3D612984B60C1C3.d04t02
Conclusions: A history of child abuse is strongly associated with food addiction in this population.
As you saying that the depression caused as a result of abuse doesn't factor in on eating habits?, or abuse during early development doesn't increase the propensity to engage in addictive & destructive behaviour?.
Awaiting counter argument.
While you may declare the idea that free will is an illusion preposterous it doesn't actually make it so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_free_will#Free_will_as_illusion
It's not some far out whacky concept, just tramples all over most religious concepts.
The rest just felt like a section from an ultimately useless self-help book.
I'm pointing out that there are objective reasons as to why the person is making those excuses.
Try stepping back one stage & looking at the bigger picture.
I don't recall suggesting otherwise, just that our metabolic rates are different.
Plenty of material on the subject.
"Finally, a 2008 study noted that sugar affects opioids and dopamine in the brain, and thus might be expected to have addictive potential. It referenced" bingeing, withdrawal, craving and cross-sensitization", and gave each of them operational definitions in order to demonstrate behaviorally that sugar bingeing is a reinforcer. These behaviors were said to be related to neurochemical changes in the brain that also occur during addiction to drugs. Neural adaptations included changes in dopamine and opioid receptor binding, enkephalin mRNA expression and dopamine and acetylcholine release in the nucleus accumbens."
"taste of sweet is said to stimulate the brain by activating beta endorphin receptor sites, the same chemicals activated in the brain by the ingestion of heroin and morphine."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21082629
http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S22/88/56G31/index.xml?section=topstories
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-sty...abetes-cancer-heart-disease-article-1.1054419
All great information to those motivated enough to use it.
Regardless as to how much they want it, underline issues may impact on that (which is all I'm saying) - it's a problem more complex than simple dietary advice & "Just do it BRO" like some on here are suggesting.
It's literally as stupid as when people make out that say depression is made up (which has genetic elements & is a physical illness) - which in turn can result in a person losing motivation (which ends up being a factor for obesity).
Not specifically at you.
But to those so opposed, what exactly is so hard to understand about the idea that other contributing factors influence an individuals ability to lose weight & that ignoring the pretty critical psychological elements which play into motivation is a fools errand if you wish to actually solve the problem of our obesity epidemic.
Meaningless & ultimately useless platitudes.
Let's use depression as an example, a real physical illness with known genetic elements.
If a certain proportion of the population has a pre-existing susceptibility to depression (one of the symptoms being reduced motivation, helplessness, substance abuse or addiction etc) - why then would this not be taken into account for understanding the underline causes of the behaviour which leads to obesity?.
If person A has a genetic pre-disposition to depression & as a result is also obese - that person needs more than diet advice & somebody saying "just gotta want it more bro!".
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I'm not sure how it's relevant but.. 11 & a half stone 5f11, well within green BMI.
So nah, have been lifting for the last couple of years on & off (on the old powerlifting totals thread, nothing great).
You don't have to be fat to find the over-simplification of complex problems tiresome - just having a close family member with severe clinical depression makes you a little bit more aware of as to how one condition can impact on a multitude of different aspects of a persons life (diet, motivation, social skills, relationships).
The dietary & exercise advice deals with the method in a which a motivated person may lose weight & resolve their own obesity problem - this you guys do have nailed, but it's half of the picture.
The psychological analysis examines as to why the person may lack the motivation/self control/addiction problems & the potential blocks or underline issues which may need addressing first - which once resolved will then lead to the person having the motivation required to proceed to the first step.
Simplifying the second section to "just get more willpower", is as bad as simplifying the diet advice to "just get thin".
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You over complicate and over analyse everything. I hope you're just doing it for the sake of online discussion else I feel sorry for you. People make valid excuses from time to time but like everything in life it's always the exception to the rule.
I'm not going to waste my time arguing any further as I have better things to do. But I'm relieved to hear you think I'm akin to a useless self help book. I just hope you're not a psychiatrist with all that nonsense you're spouting.
Either way I wish you all the best and whilst I'd like to say I enjoyed our chat, I'd be lying.
I'm not going to waste my time arguing any further as I have better things to do. But I'm relieved to hear you think I'm akin to a useless self help book. I just hope you're not a psychiatrist with all that nonsense you're spouting.
Either way I wish you all the best and whilst I'd like to say I enjoyed our chat, I'd be lying.
You have a pretty lame attitude and I wonder why you are so concerned with other peoples weight. Personally I couldnt care less about whether someone is eating well and excercising or not.
You could equally apply your arguements to becoming successful in life. Are you a wealthy person in the top 1% of earners in this country ? If not why not, are you lazy and thick ? Why would you choose to be thick and ignorant instead of feeding your mind to become something worthwhile and contribute something significant to society instead of being a leech ? If you are not a net contributor then you are a leech. Obviously I dont think like that but just illustrating it can be applied to other things in life.
The problem is its easy to attack people to make your pathetic life feel better, lets face it, its part of the reason soaps on TV are so successful. Watching other peoples misery makes your own pitiful life feel better.
Perhaps the world isn't as simple as you think it is.
If you could point out specifically where I was objectively wrong I'll be more than happy to revise my original post.I just hope you're not a psychiatrist with all that nonsense you're spouting.
To be honest I expected more depth.
Very valid point.
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