Tesla (Electric) car manufacturer explains poor sales due to petrol car companies lobbying!

LateX'Dog

LateX'Dog

LateX'Dog

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"If democracy was working properly, and the legislatures was implementing the will of the people, something else would be happening…and there would not be legislation trying to artificially restrict direct sales."
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Tesla CEO

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/4186560/events/2144242

Tesla represents a threat to the current market. Not only has it benefited from government subsides (this is very hypocritical considering the bailout), it has shown that a reliance on oil for cars is not necessarily required. Alternatives, that are realistic, are out there and will only be developed further.

Those with an invested interest in dealership and oil production see that if Tesla becomes affordable to the middle class worker, people will stop purchasing products the investors own. They will lose money. Thus they must lobby government to prevent competition to insure their own future revenues.

People who are wealthy enough have been buying cars directly from the manufacturer for years. I know BMW offers a full customizable interior and extras for those that preorder their car a year in advance directly from the factory.

Tesla is not offering anything new. It is just that their car is the beginning of entire change to the current market. This scares people with a financial investment in the status quo.
 
I have only two problems with electric cars, one they are expensive, and two they are ****.

Having said that I don't doubt there are some very wealthy influential people who's interest won't be served with the advancement of the tech.

Right now the the tech. and infrastructure needed is hugely short as a viable alternative.
 
What about Nissan and Chevy? Both making electric cars...? Both making them cheaply as possible. Unfortunately the battery makes them expensive.
 
In an obtuse way what he's says makes a small bit of sense. Honda had a fully road-ready hydrogen fuel-cell car, the FCX Clarity which James May of Top Gear fame drove on the streets of LA back in 2007. So we know hydrogen fuel-cells work but 6 years on we're no closer to being able to purchase one.

Think of all those oil billionaires who's fortunes would crumble if we stop relying on as much oil as we do. You can't tell me that even one of them has slipped 'a few notes' into influential back pockets.
 
But if oil revenues dropped off, how would the Saudi's fund the terrorlolism that Western Govts. use to control the populations and make $TRILLIONS off of?
 
Ahh the annual electric car thread, strangely not in the motors forum for once.
I expect this will follow the same lines as every over thread on here.
"petrolhead" wit no clue sprouts random reasons why the electric car is no good, here follows the usual line;
* electric cars are slow
* electric cars dont recharge fast enough
* electric cars have limited milleage, i need a car that can do 300 miles + per charge for all thoses long journeys i do
* electric cars are unsafe/boring because they make no noise
* electric cars are unsafe because of the electrocution factor
* infrastructure is not up to it
* hydrogen cars are the way of the future

Then a person in the know comes along and points out all the incorrect points from above, such as;
*electric cars are slow, there not it depends on the configuration. A lambo is fast but you wont get 30mpg out off it a electric car can be just as fast but yo wont get the range, see white zombie, killacycle
*electric cars dont charge fast enough, true electric car batteries will always take longer to charge. But with planning and three phase systems they can be quick.
*electric cars have limited mileage, yep but most drivers dont need 200 miles plus range a day. Image london with no emmisons or la.
* electric cars are boring dangerous because of the lack off noise. Firstly grow up most noise you here in a normal car is road noise if you really need the noise just have the sound systems used in modern bmws etc, secondly a motor at full spin sounds like a turbine. For example look up isle of man ttexgp
*electric cars are unsafe because of the battery pack , um in most car except diesels you are sat ontop of 30 plus litres of contained explosive fluid.
* infrastructure is not up to it, natiinal grid is upgrading the grid regularly to deal wih the increase of loads, standard power stations are being supplemented by non traditional systems all the time.
* hydrogen is the fuel of the future; says the oil companies. Hydrogen in its raw form needed for use in electric cars requires more energy to create than it puts out. Not exactly a good point for a fuel source. There is currently no way to 100% contain hydrogen so leakages will occur so you will be filling up more. There is no infrastructure for hydrogen.
But all the above will be ignored as it will turn into a tit for tat of extremes etc
 
Resident said:
In an obtuse way what he's says makes a small bit of sense. Honda had a fully road-ready hydrogen fuel-cell car, the FCX Clarity which James May of Top Gear fame drove on the streets of LA back in 2007. So we know hydrogen fuel-cells work but 6 years on we're no closer to being able to purchase one.

Think of all those oil billionaires who's fortunes would crumble if we stop relying on as much oil as we do. You can't tell me that even one of them has slipped 'a few notes' into influential back pockets.
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Thing called infastructure,
We don't produce large quantities of hydrogen and we don't have the infastructure to transport it in those quantities.
We do have means of generating and transporting large quantities of electrcity, which is being upgraded to support EVs.
All new tech is expensive and it will drop in price, same with the infastructure, it won't happen over night but it is happening.

Hydrogen fuel cells for cars is a waste of time, expensive and inefficient over the entire life cycle of the hydrogen.
There are also plenty of battery protoypes that exist today that will make EVs suitable for almost everyone. But you are looking at the 2017-2020 before these hit mass production assuming no problems are hit.

I'm not sure what the op is on about or what he thinks seeing as its doesnt contain anything but a copy and paste.
There are plenty of big investors investing in EV also car manufacturers and power/oil companies as well.
 
Glaucus said:
Thing called infastructure,
We don't produce large quantities of hydrogen and we don't have the infastructure to transport it in those quantities.
We do have means of generating and transporting large quantities of electrcity, which is being upgraded to support EVs.
All new tech is expensive and it will drop in price, same with the infastructure, it won't happen over night but it is happening.

Hydrogen fuel cells for cars is a waste of time, expensive and inefficient over the entire life cycle of the hydrogen.
There are also plenty of battery protoypes that exist today that will make EVs suitable for almost everyone. But you are looking at the 2017-2020 before these hit mass production assuming no problems are hit.

I'm not sure what the op is on about or what he thinks seeing as its doesnt contain anything but a copy and paste.
There are plenty of big investors investing in EV also car manufacturers and power/oil companies as well.
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You also have to produce hydrogen somehow which requires (significant) energy input. Hydrogen isn't particularly energy dense (MJ/L) even in liquid form, which requires high pressure and/or low temperatures.

I really don't see hydrogen fuel as a way forward on a mass scale due to the production and infrastructure demands, even if fuel cells themselves are an interesting technology.

When you think about it if it was to replace petrol/diesel say, it's not very efficient:
Energy in to produce hydrogen>completely new transport and storage infrastructure>your car to power a fuel cell to produce electricity

Why not just cut out the middleman and go straight to electric powered cars......I know the technology isn't quite there yet with batteries but there's significant research going on.
 
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As probably one of the very few members who actually has owned an electric car back in 2010 for 12 months most of the points above are indeed issues with varying importance depending on what you use the car for.

Electric cars are not a replacement for petrol cars yet, if you wish to drive 500 miles in one day you need to find alternative transport options! Also the cost vs performance just isn't there yet. 3 years ago the prototype I had cost the best part of £35k and was effectively designed to be a 'commuter car' which you'd normally not spend more than £8k on new.

Until the battery technology becomes cheaper we won't see a massive increase in electric cars as that is the real bottleneck. Would you spend twice the money on a Nissan Leaf compared to a Nissan Note?
 
So it doesn't have anything to do with Tesla complaining or going on to sue anyone who says a bad word about them or their cars?

I can tell you, it puts me off a company a little...
 
Abraxaz1 said:
Ahh the annual electric car thread, strangely not in the motors forum for once.
I expect this will follow the same lines as every over thread on here.
"petrolhead" wit no clue sprouts random reasons why the electric car is no good, here follows the usual line;
* electric cars are slow
* electric cars dont recharge fast enough
* electric cars have limited milleage, i need a car that can do 300 miles + per charge for all thoses long journeys i do
* electric cars are unsafe/boring because they make no noise
* electric cars are unsafe because of the electrocution factor
* infrastructure is not up to it
* hydrogen cars are the way of the future

Then a person in the know comes along and points out all the incorrect points from above, such as;
*electric cars are slow, there not it depends on the configuration. A lambo is fast but you wont get 30mpg out off it a electric car can be just as fast but yo wont get the range, see white zombie, killacycle
*electric cars dont charge fast enough, true electric car batteries will always take longer to charge. But with planning and three phase systems they can be quick.
*electric cars have limited mileage, yep but most drivers dont need 200 miles plus range a day. Image london with no emmisons or la.
* electric cars are boring dangerous because of the lack off noise. Firstly grow up most noise you here in a normal car is road noise if you really need the noise just have the sound systems used in modern bmws etc, secondly a motor at full spin sounds like a turbine. For example look up isle of man ttexgp
*electric cars are unsafe because of the battery pack , um in most car except diesels you are sat ontop of 30 plus litres of contained explosive fluid.
* infrastructure is not up to it, natiinal grid is upgrading the grid regularly to deal wih the increase of loads, standard power stations are being supplemented by non traditional systems all the time.
* hydrogen is the fuel of the future; says the oil companies. Hydrogen in its raw form needed for use in electric cars requires more energy to create than it puts out. Not exactly a good point for a fuel source. There is currently no way to 100% contain hydrogen so leakages will occur so you will be filling up more. There is no infrastructure for hydrogen.
But all the above will be ignored as it will turn into a tit for tat of extremes etc
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Okay m8
 
LateX'Dog said:
People who are wealthy enough have been buying cars directly from the manufacturer for years. I know BMW offers a full customizable interior and extras for those that preorder their car a year in advance directly from the factory.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? You don't buy BMW's directly from the factory in the UK - you order them through private companies who hold a franchise to operate a BMW dealer. This is the same of virtually every car marque on sale today.

There is also no such 'special' offer for those who pre-order a car a 'year in advance'.
 
Abraxaz1 said:
Ahh the annual electric car thread, strangely not in the motors forum for once.
I expect this will follow the same lines as every over thread on here.
"petrolhead" wit no clue sprouts random reasons why the electric car is no good, here follows the usual line;
* electric cars are slow
* electric cars dont recharge fast enough
* electric cars have limited milleage, i need a car that can do 300 miles + per charge for all thoses long journeys i do
* electric cars are unsafe/boring because they make no noise
* electric cars are unsafe because of the electrocution factor
* infrastructure is not up to it
* hydrogen cars are the way of the future

Then a person in the know comes along and points out all the incorrect points from above, such as;
*electric cars are slow, there not it depends on the configuration. A lambo is fast but you wont get 30mpg out off it a electric car can be just as fast but yo wont get the range, see white zombie, killacycle
*electric cars dont charge fast enough, true electric car batteries will always take longer to charge. But with planning and three phase systems they can be quick.
*electric cars have limited mileage, yep but most drivers dont need 200 miles plus range a day. Image london with no emmisons or la.
* electric cars are boring dangerous because of the lack off noise. Firstly grow up most noise you here in a normal car is road noise if you really need the noise just have the sound systems used in modern bmws etc, secondly a motor at full spin sounds like a turbine. For example look up isle of man ttexgp
*electric cars are unsafe because of the battery pack , um in most car except diesels you are sat ontop of 30 plus litres of contained explosive fluid.
* infrastructure is not up to it, natiinal grid is upgrading the grid regularly to deal wih the increase of loads, standard power stations are being supplemented by non traditional systems all the time.
* hydrogen is the fuel of the future; says the oil companies. Hydrogen in its raw form needed for use in electric cars requires more energy to create than it puts out. Not exactly a good point for a fuel source. There is currently no way to 100% contain hydrogen so leakages will occur so you will be filling up more. There is no infrastructure for hydrogen.
But all the above will be ignored as it will turn into a tit for tat of extremes etc
Click to expand...

Ignoring some of the incorrect facts this is a nice summary of why electric cars currently suck, apart from when used in one or two highly specific scenarios.
 
Was it not only last month that Tesla paid back a government loan ($500m) early as they were doing so well!
 
Abraxaz1 said:
A
* infrastructure is not up to it, natiinal grid is upgrading the grid regularly to deal wih the increase of loads, standard power stations are being supplemented by non traditional systems all the time.
Click to expand...

So why has Ofgem predicted UK grid capacity shortfalls by 2015, due to closure of coal fired power stations?
 
/pulls head out of sand..

Can you charge these through a 3 pin plug at anyone's house? Or does it have to be a specific charging point?
 
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