Gay People Against Gay Marriage

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You got the hardest job in the world then as no one has ever translated a bible\scroll before Christ :)

I am not really sure what you are saying here?

In one bible Jesus did not die on the cross but watched. As I've said most are just made up to suite an agenda.

I think you are confusing the general term bible with The Bible. In any case, which Bible (or Gospel) are you referring to specifically that has such a Passion Narrative? (Resurrection of Jesus Christ by Bartholomew perhaps?)

Where do you stand on the gospel according to Mary Magdalene?

The Gospel of Mary is one of many Gnostic texts in the class of Dialogues with Jesus, it is one of the New Testament Apocrypha that was written by Early Christians but is not regarded as Canon by the mainstream Christian Churches. Where I stand is as an academic, I have no personal belief outside of that interest.
 
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Genesis 2:22-24
Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman, ' for she was taken out of man." For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

You know this is myth and not actually what happened don't you?
 
You know this is myth and not actually what happened don't you?

Please prove beyond any doubt that God does not exist, and did not create life on Earth.

I'm looking forward to reading all about your proof in tomorrow's papers. Shortly followed by your Nobel prize acceptance speech on TV.

You can conclusively prove this, right?
 
If it goes against the fundamental purpose for creation and method of reproduction then yes - why would god want to create a race that cannot itself reproduce


can all the horrific monstrosities that are the various types of angel reproduce then?

You state that God created the person like that, as if they have no choice which is completely false.

and when did you consciously choose to be straight?

are you saying you thought of making love to men but chose women?
 
Please prove beyond any doubt that God does not exist, and did not create life on Earth.

I'm looking forward to reading all about your proof in tomorrow's papers. Shortly followed by your Nobel prize acceptance speech on TV.

You can conclusively prove this, right?

Nice strawman - RDM said that it was a myth and it didn't happen. Nowhere did he say:

God does not exist.
God did not create life on earth.

That's you turning the debate to familiar territory because you can not substantiate any proof to demonstrate his assertions is incorrect.
 
I believe he used to and dropped it a year or so back he did a thread about it or in a thread about giving the job up to go back to academia.

Think he went something like: reprobate of a youth > RM > Officer Marines > Bus Company manager > PhD Theology Linguistical thingy etc.

May be wrong but that's how I remember it.
 
I believe he used to and dropped it a year or so back he did a thread about it or in a thread about giving the job up to go back to academia.

Think he went something like: reprobate of a youth > RM > Officer Marines > Bus Company manager > PhD Theology Linguistical thingy etc.

May be wrong but that's how I remember it.

That about sums it up....my life summed up in a sentence feels a bit disappointing.....
 
Please prove beyond any doubt that God does not exist, and did not create life on Earth.

I don't recall saying that. All I said was that the Adam and Eve story is a myth. One of the collection of Jewish creation myths, same as Noah et al.
 
Nice strawman - RDM said that it was a myth and it didn't happen. Nowhere did he say:

God does not exist.
God did not create life on earth.

That's you turning the debate to familiar territory because you can not substantiate any proof to demonstrate his assertions is incorrect.

Indeed.

But if he really wants to play that game then I shall ask for proof that Yggdrasil isn't real, or indeed any of the myriad other creation myths that he doesn't believe in. :D
 
That's you turning the debate to familiar territory because you can not substantiate any proof to demonstrate his assertions is incorrect.

Sorry, I thought the person making the assertions was the one needing to provide proof?

Not that all assertions become fact unless there is proof that they are not?

It would indeed be difficult (impossible!) for me to prove Adam and Eve. But surely wouldn't it also be impossible for RDM to disprove Adam and Eve?

I'm not going to say that evolution never happens to any degree, ever, but there is still no proof that all life began as a chemical soup either.
 
Sorry, I thought the person making the assertions was the one needing to provide proof?

Totally correct which is why you would need to demonstrate Adam and Eve existed as real people before we had to demonstrate it was a myth.

You seem to have the burden of proof the wrong way around.
 
Totally correct which is why you would need to demonstrate Adam and Eve existed as real people before we had to demonstrate it was a myth.

You seem to have the burden of proof the wrong way around.

So we're going nowhere fast, then. I'm not going to be able to prove to your satisfaction that they existed, and neither do you have infallible proof that they didn't.

However, about 'burdon of proof'. The general idea is that if two people have conflicting opinions, and the one wants to challenge the other, the one making the challenge has to challenge with proof.

Otherwise you have "Your beliefs are wrong!" "Why?" "Prove they aren't!"
 
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So, the primary message that Christ bought to Mankind is effectively bunkum, as it only applies to those who comply to a narrow definition of how people should feel.

Almost three-quarters of a million UK adults say they are gay, lesbian or bisexual - equivalent to 1.5% of the population, a survey suggests.


Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11398629

According to the UK then - 98.5% is a narrow definition?




I think you will find that someone's sexual orientation is, in most cases, something that is part of their nature...not something they choose to feel. And are we, as a race, not made in Gods Image..are we not a reflection of his nature? if this is the case then should we reject those who may be a reflection of that nature simply because that reflection is not the same as our own? Is Gods Nature so simplistic that it is so easily defined?

We are made in Gods Image - Correct. Now you have written a very controversial statement because none of us meet the standards of God, therefore we all fall short and we all sin. God says we cannot make him love us any more or any less through works - We can only try to make ourselves more christ like in our acts / words as we choose to also allowing the holy spirit to enter our hearts. As part of a christian church we don't 'reject' anybody where they're at, we accept and love people.

People may feel overwhelming urges and what they call love for another member of the same sex - but most of it spirals around circumstances / how you're brought up / things that might happen to you etc.

How does that square with the central theme of Christ's Commandment?

We love one another as Christ loves the Church.
People aren't perfect
We choose to do different things
Some people follow Christ - Some people don't



They were punished for other things than their parenting...In a world of isolation and if we assume the literal interpretation of Genesis as you appear to be doing, then should we not look toward the family unit as being the defining factor in the morality of the children as there were no other intervening or influencing factors? this is of course what you are saying is the problem with non conventional families after all....If Adam and Eve were good parents and Cain's aberration was due to his own morality (given by God perhaps) then surely we cannot judge any Family Unit, however it is comprised based on morality alone, as surely that would mean that your reason for believing that Adam and Eve is Gods template for a moral and just family unit is flawed.

Adam and Eve are a perfect example of why we shouldn't turn a blind eye or ignore God. Because of their Sin, they brought it into the family line for generations to come. It is only flawed in the same essence that the whole world is flawed and no one is perfect.


You are stating that a Parents morality is a primary value in bringing up children, the younger the child the more impact it will have...You pointed to Adam and Eve as being examples of what God intended a family to be...I pointed out that the morality of your example is flawed as is the example itself.

Adam and Eve were the first, that's all and consequently, made mistakes - no they were not the "ideal" family, but God still blessed them with another son. It just shows God has forgiveness and is willing to give second chances. God is all about Love as is his character. I am not saying we should idolise Adam and Eve as the Family unit by a long shot. In my view we should look to Christ to form our character and the Bible to guide our decisions where possible and not only that, use the mistakes / consequences learned by people in the bible to best guide us in our lives here today.



So, if we go by that, the primary goal of any family unit is to procreate....as simple as that....so to best accomplish that we should be in multiple partner relationships, having as many children as possible and follow any family system which best provides for this outcome...polygamy or better yet, as with many species on the Earth, follow only transient, temporary family units that are expressly for the sole purpose of producing as many young across as broad a genetic spectrum as possible, so why have marriage at all...surely we should simply be having sex with as many people as possible.

And you talk about it being ludicrous.

I think you have taken one verse out of context again without factoring in other verses in the bible obviously associated with it. THere are obviously CHristian Morals to have here and although "Be fruitful and Multiply" applies, you still have for example "Thou shalt not commit adultery" - You cannot take just one verse and literally use that on its own to guide your life, it has to be put in to perspective with all other verses of the bible to gain an overall outlook rather than a directive view abusing one particular verse.
 
Sorry, I thought the person making the assertions was the one needing to provide proof?

Yes, the assertion is that homosexuals raising children is wrong because God made Adam and Eve as the family unit. So surely that assertion needs to be proven?

If someone wants to use a Bronze Age creation myth to enforce policy they are going to need a bit of proof.

Not that all assertions become fact unless there is proof that they are not?

It would indeed be difficult (impossible!) for me to prove Adam and Eve. But surely wouldn't it also be impossible for RDM to disprove Adam and Eve?

I'm not going to say that evolution never happens to any degree, ever, but there is still no proof that all life began as a chemical soup either.

I hadn't realised you were a biblical literalist, hopefully not a young earth creationist too? Also what has abiogenesis got to do with anything?
 
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