Holiday in Iraq + Taksim Square

MickeyFinns said:
On that note I've always though the guys with kids who compete in the Isle of Man TT are worthy of some criticism, much more that someone who chooses to holiday somewhere risky.
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I totally agree with that, it's a very unfair and selfish thing to do, purposefully putting your life at risk when you have children.

On the other hand I can understand people who want to do things to the extreme when they don't have such responsibilities. Like you say as long as they're not harming others, then leave them to it.

However my argument was slightly different. I wasn't particularly thinking from the aspect of safety, more like why do these people want to holiday in these countries to begin with. If it's a general interest to understand the culture then fine, but to just go somewhere because an atrocity is ongoing is very tasteless in my view.

I shall say no more on the issue
 
AdladUK said:
I totally agree with that, it's a very unfair and selfish thing to do, purposefully putting your life at risk when you have children.

On the other hand I can understand people who want to do things to the extreme when they don't have such responsibilities. Like you say as long as they're not harming others, then leave them to it.

However my argument was slightly different. I wasn't particularly thinking from the aspect of safety, more like why do these people want to holiday in these countries to begin with. If it's a general interest to understand the culture then fine, but to just go somewhere because an atrocity is ongoing is very tasteless in my view.

I shall say no more on the issue
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From what you are stating it suggests to me that you have distaste for people who travelling with a condescending attitude towards those who reside in the visited country. I can understand that position.

Although I think the OP has demonstrated how to conduct himself in another country. If one doesn't then the repercussions are obvious.
 
smelly_legend said:
From what you are stating it suggests to me that you have distaste for people who travelling with a condescending attitude towards those who reside in the visited country.
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I'm not sure where I mentioned condescending.

My problem (albeit one that has been blown out of proportion by explaining it 10 times) is with people who go on "war tours."

That is they specifically visit countries in the midst of war, or very soon after. And their main drive it seems is to get some sort of ego boost, or temporary high, by visiting somewhere dangerous or "extreme." And like I said I find that very distasteful.

For example Somalia is in the midst of a terrible civil war that has been going on for decades. Hundreds of thousands of people have died as a result (many of them children starving to death). Why on Earth would someone think it's cool to go on holiday there? Essentially what they're saying is okay xxx,xxx people have died, this place is now on my list of countries to visit! It's really quite odd
 
AdladUK said:
I'm not sure where I mentioned condescending.

My problem (albeit one that has been blown out of proportion by explaining it 10 times) is with people who go on "war tours."

That is they specifically visit countries in the midst of war, or very soon after. And their main drive it seems is to get some sort of ego boost, or temporary high, by visiting somewhere dangerous or "extreme." And like I said I find that very distasteful.

For example Somalia is in the midst of a terrible civil war that has been going on for decades. Hundreds of thousands of people have died as a result (many of them children starving to death). Why on Earth would someone think it's cool to go on holiday there? Essentially what they're saying is okay xxx,xxx people have died, this place is now on my list of countries to visit! It's really quite odd
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OK, change my word "stated" for "implied". None the less, I still think the crux of what you are trying to say is that people who visit war torn countries for a holiday seem condescending to the people that have suffered. When you say "ego boost" - does that not imply a condescending attitude to the people of the country? Is that not what makes you mad - rather than the "ego boost" which we all do every day in one way or another? Maybe people go for the exact opposite, to try and relinquish certain aspects of the ego - to see what life is like for others, to not live in a bubble.
 
MickeyFinns said:
Haha! Currently got the following slightly sketchy places booked;

August: Tansnistria, a Mafia run breakaway state in Moldova.
October: Turkmenistan, Central Asian dictatorship.
January 2014: Somaliland, the safer region of Somalia.
Feburary 2014: Decapitated on the internet.
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There ya go, fixed your itinerary for you ;)

Fair play though, and good luck!
 
doofski said:
That must have been a bit risky.
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No! Because after we carpet bombed the place and killed lots of innocent woman and children and then realized there were no weapons of mass destruction we actually did manage to liberate Iraq and save the country from itself. After the country was flattened to the ground we then withdrew because we had won and Iraq was safe.

How on earth could his trip be risky?
 
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Mikoyan said:
Yep big respect, your probably showing that these places aren't as bad as the media portray?
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LOL

Hows he doing that by visiting NK as a tourist in what is going to be a very controlled tourist experience....

As for Iraq - I'm not sure what media you read but I don't think the Kurdish region has generally been portrayed as particularly volatile.

I'm sure they're very interesting holidays and I don't mean any disrespect to the OP as he's enjoying some fairly unique experiences regardless but a country like North Korea gets a bad press because it really is a despicable regime guilty of countless human rights abuses - the fact that someone from the west has been on holiday there and had an interesting experience doesn't change that.
 
albert said:
No! Because after we carpet bombed the place and killed lots of innocent woman and children and then realized there were no weapons of mass destruction we actually did manage to liberate Iraq and save the country from itself. After the country was flattened to the ground we then withdrew because we had won and Iraq was safe.

How on earth could his trip be risky?
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The Kurdish people living in the northern bit are generally quite grateful for the no fly zone that was enforced up there for several years and the invasion (which they also assisted with). Small matter of the previous regime massacring some them on a few occasions might have had something to do with that.
 
dowie said:
Small matter of the previous regime massacring some them on a few occasions might have had something to do with that.
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Well, that's debatable because the West has killed over 100,000 innocent civilians in Iraq.

Maybe it's because we are the 'good guys' and we just don't see it. We have definitely killed/massacred more civilians than Saddam ever did.

I'm 42 and I've told everyone i know and i'll bet anyone right now that before i die George Bush and Tony Blair will be tried for War Crimes over the illegal Iraq War.
 
Albert please go away and perform an anti war rant in some other thread and stop trying to derail it.

Interesting read OP. Shame about the usual anti war think of the children style responses. You aren't glorifying it or being pro war so no idea why they get off on the idea so much.
 
albert said:
Well, that's debatable because the West has killed over 100,000 innocent civilians in Iraq.

Maybe it's because we are the 'good guys' and we just don't see it. We have definitely killed/massacred more civilians than Saddam ever did.

I'm 42 and I've told everyone i know and i'll bet anyone right now that before i die George Bush and Tony Blair will be tried for War Crimes over the illegal Iraq War.
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There is a huge divide in a Iraq between the Kurds and Arabs. The civilian casualties in Iraq during the war were almost entirely Arab in the south and from what I saw the Kurds aren't too concerned about them, some were even quite racist about the people in the south.

We also found people quite friendly to the British in Kurdistan as we hosted a lot of them as refugees and they seemed grateful for it.
 
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