**** The Official Superman - Man Of Steel Discussion Thread ****
- Thread starter Jimz
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We watched this Super Independence Assemble Matrix last night and overall it was enjoyable, though there was so many things wrong with it, plot inconsistencies galore.
For example, how come the atmosphere in Zod's ship caused such an adverse reaction to Superman, but going out into the vacuum of space is ok?
If Superman got his 'powers' by soaking up the radiation of our sun whilst growing, how come Zod and his minions had the same 'powers'?
I loved the touch when he was fighting the southern hemisphere machine, and again, his sensitive bronchial airways were irritated by the smoke coming off, enough that a good 40 a day cough was audible over the (extremely loud) sound effects - but sticking your head in a flaming rocket engine, no problem!
I must say as well, that the dramatic line from Zod of "Release the World Machine!" just didn't quite have the same ring or gravitas to it as "Release the Krakken!"
But criticisms aside, I did enjoy the movie even with all the silly parts. And remember boys and girls, if ever you are facing adversity and need to overcome that challenge...just go "Raaaaawwwwrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....." and try that little bit harder, and everything will be ok!
For example, how come the atmosphere in Zod's ship caused such an adverse reaction to Superman, but going out into the vacuum of space is ok?
If Superman got his 'powers' by soaking up the radiation of our sun whilst growing, how come Zod and his minions had the same 'powers'?
I loved the touch when he was fighting the southern hemisphere machine, and again, his sensitive bronchial airways were irritated by the smoke coming off, enough that a good 40 a day cough was audible over the (extremely loud) sound effects - but sticking your head in a flaming rocket engine, no problem!
I must say as well, that the dramatic line from Zod of "Release the World Machine!" just didn't quite have the same ring or gravitas to it as "Release the Krakken!"
But criticisms aside, I did enjoy the movie even with all the silly parts. And remember boys and girls, if ever you are facing adversity and need to overcome that challenge...just go "Raaaaawwwwrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....." and try that little bit harder, and everything will be ok!
We watched this Super Independence Assemble Matrix last night and overall it was enjoyable, though there was so many things wrong with it, plot inconsistencies galore.
For example, how come the atmosphere in Zod's ship caused such an adverse reaction to Superman, but going out into the vacuum of space is ok?
If Superman got his 'powers' by soaking up the radiation of our sun whilst growing, how come Zod and his minions had the same 'powers'?
I loved the touch when he was fighting the southern hemisphere machine, and again, his sensitive bronchial airways were irritated by the smoke coming off, enough that a good 40 a day cough was audible over the (extremely loud) sound effects - but sticking your head in a flaming rocket engine, no problem!
I must say as well, that the dramatic line from Zod of "Release the World Machine!" just didn't quite have the same ring or gravitas to it as "Release the Krakken!"
But criticisms aside, I did enjoy the movie even with all the silly parts. And remember boys and girls, if ever you are facing adversity and need to overcome that challenge...just go "Raaaaawwwwrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....." and try that little bit harder, and everything will be ok!
1: Zod said they'd been visiting many outposts around the universe so they've also adapted to different planet environments. You're also forgetting that he and his soldiers are products of artificial population control and were genetically designed to be warriors so will have that adaptation built into them. Cal was not born this way so he's had to adapt over time.
2: It was "Release the World Engine"! Not machine
3: Because Superman.
Caporegime
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At first watch and in the moment, it is an enjoyable movie. When you start analysing under the surface however this is when this film come short and ultimately it's undoing.
Plot holes aside, with regard to Superman's strengths and weaknesses, or why Lois Lane was requested on the alien ship or why she was needed on the military ship (apart from being Lois Lane), even disregarding all that, I couldn't say there was any particular scene which I now think back and say "oh yeah, that was such an awesome scene", be it acting performance like Anne Hatherway in Le Mis, or a brutal beach landing in Normandy in Saving Private Ryan. At the end of the day Superman was one big blur to me and the longer the time since I watched it the more average the movie becomes. At least with Dark Knight Rises I remembers its struggles, in both Bane and Bruce Wayne and good supporting characters in Freeman, Oldman and Gordon-Levitt who are much more three diamensional. In Superman even the main characters are undeveloped. Lois Lane is a reporter who do anything to get a story. Zod is fine I guess for his part, but I was expecting a smarter plan from him to incapacitate Superman. I mean in the movie they are all supposed to have equal strengths so against each other it would be all even out, so Superman should be outnumbered easily and in some way restrained.
The characters that I think had depth were Crowe and Costner, who were much better than the rest. (Although lets not forgetting the plot hole of Crowe's character is supposed to be a scientist by birth, so what on earth was he doing with a giant suit or armour and where did he learn how to fight like that?)
Talking about scientist, re - Codex, wouldn't there be more than one, as in there is that chamber with all the eggs in the South Pole, what was the point of it without a Codex, and I presume there would be other ships like it all over the galaxy too?
Plot holes aside, with regard to Superman's strengths and weaknesses, or why Lois Lane was requested on the alien ship or why she was needed on the military ship (apart from being Lois Lane), even disregarding all that, I couldn't say there was any particular scene which I now think back and say "oh yeah, that was such an awesome scene", be it acting performance like Anne Hatherway in Le Mis, or a brutal beach landing in Normandy in Saving Private Ryan. At the end of the day Superman was one big blur to me and the longer the time since I watched it the more average the movie becomes. At least with Dark Knight Rises I remembers its struggles, in both Bane and Bruce Wayne and good supporting characters in Freeman, Oldman and Gordon-Levitt who are much more three diamensional. In Superman even the main characters are undeveloped. Lois Lane is a reporter who do anything to get a story. Zod is fine I guess for his part, but I was expecting a smarter plan from him to incapacitate Superman. I mean in the movie they are all supposed to have equal strengths so against each other it would be all even out, so Superman should be outnumbered easily and in some way restrained.
The characters that I think had depth were Crowe and Costner, who were much better than the rest. (Although lets not forgetting the plot hole of Crowe's character is supposed to be a scientist by birth, so what on earth was he doing with a giant suit or armour and where did he learn how to fight like that?)
Talking about scientist, re - Codex, wouldn't there be more than one, as in there is that chamber with all the eggs in the South Pole, what was the point of it without a Codex, and I presume there would be other ships like it all over the galaxy too?
Caporegime
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It's about control not power. Do some Tai Chi or something.
Soldato
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I completely disagree with what people are moaning about with this movie. I think this Superman film is exactly the film we needed and it was brilliant.
Instead of me going on.. Ill post here two of the best reviews I've read that express exactly what I mean. I would advise reading them both.
WARNING - SPOILERS AHEAD!!
Instead of me going on.. Ill post here two of the best reviews I've read that express exactly what I mean. I would advise reading them both.
WARNING - SPOILERS AHEAD!!
My thoughts? I loved Man of Steel. This film finally takes Superman in the right direction cinematically, dropping him in a modern world that is in desperate need of a Superman. As great as the Christopher Reeves Superman films were, the last one came out over 25 years ago. We need to move on.
Thankfully, Warner Bros saw that after the poorly received Superman Returns. Was the film perfect? Not by a long shot. While there were a few moments of levity here and there, like when Clark first learned to fly and during his interaction with Lois after he dons the famous suit, the film does feel a bit too serious and even dour.
Along with that, it would have been nice to see a distinct showcase of Superman’s abilities in use when he was fighting Zod and his cronies. That would have been his edge on these Kryptonians who had little experience with the use of their abilities.
Plus, something that was unanimously an issue with fans was how during Zod and Superman’s borderline demolition of Metropolis, Superman gave not a whit of interest in the collateral damage. That is always a big aspect of Superman, trying to contain a superpowered fight away from the civilians. The causalities must have been in the thousands given how many skyscrapers they knocked over. Even though he stopped Zod, why would the US or any country trust him given how much destruction he and his kind caused across just one major city? Just saying.
Now, what worked?
First off, Krypton does explode so we can all relax there.
Let me also say that the reimagining of Krypton was amazing. This is very different from any other iteration of that planet on or off screen. The technology is very advanced, liquid metal at times in ways that are reminiscent of The Matrix. Even the little details such as the family crests are fantastic. Apparently, they made over 300 different family crests for this film. All the political intrigue and coups prior to Krypton’s destruction really worked for me, partially due to Michael Shannon and Russell Crowe owning the scenes they were in together. I could have stayed longer on Krypton before its explosion, but obviously the story was about Superman.
And Henry Cavill IS Superman. He’s everything a fan could hope for in a new Man of Steel. The character doesn’t need to be dark and gritty just to adapt to modern times. However, I like how we see Clark choose to become Superman instead of getting brainwashed for 12 years by his bio daddy. Along with that, Clark is still finding his footing in this new role, and Cavill embodies that loneliness and confusion in the earlier parts of the movie perfectly.
I was at first hesitant about Amy Adams as Lois, mainly because of the huge age difference and that she looked more like a Lana Lang than a Lois. But she worked for me very much, a tough as nails woman who’s good at her job but still has an overwhelming knack for getting into trouble.
Michael Shannon owned as Zod. He was not a caricature, but a man who was literally made from birth to be a soldier. His sole purpose is to protect Krypton. Anyone who gets in his way is an obstacle that must be removed. Antje Traue worked wonderfully as Zod’s right-hand Faora, not saying much but delivering ass-kickings when needed.
All the supporting cast worked for me, too. Russell Crowe and Kevin Costner added gravitas as Clark’s two fathers, though I could have done with a little less of the constant hammering home of Clark’s greater destiny. Lawrence Fishburne could have gotten a little more to do as Perry White, but I’m guessing we’ll see that in later films.
I did like how the Superman name came to be in this film. Lois was about to name him that before the Army rudely interrupted. But the name got bandied about given the S on Clark’s chest, which is the family crest of House El and stands for Hope.
A big change that I enjoyed but might irk long-time fans is how Superman and Lois first meet. Not to spoil this, but it actually makes a lot of sense given the modern day context of the movie. I mean, Lois IS a Pulitzer Prize winning investigative reporter and not an idiot.
Another smart choice David Goyer and Zack Snyder made was how all the other Kryptonians in Zod’s crew didn’t adjust so quickly to Earth’s Sun (unlike in the show Smallville). Zod, when his protective helmet gets damaged, is overwhelmed at first by all his enhanced senses. And other than Zod, who worked to master his new powers, all the other Kryptonians could only Hulk-leap to get where they were going instead of flying outright.
Superman having trouble fighting Zod and his soldiers at first made perfect sense as well. For one, from what we can tell, the Superman in this film had never really used his powers in a fighting capacity before Zod arrived. Two, he has never encountered any person as strong as him, let alone several people. And three, Zod and his officers are all trained soldiers bred from birth to be the best, whereas Clark is not. This made for very interesting fight sequences in both the battle of Smallville and Metropolis.
And of course, the final battle between Zod and Superman. Other than the potential collateral damage that I had issues with, this fight made the destruction of New York City in The Avengers look like a minor earthquake. I’m glad we finally got to see Superman fighting a superpowered foe and the devastation that could occur because of this. Which leads us to how the fight ended.
MAJOR SPOILERS.
PROCEED AT YOUR OWN PERIL.
Last warning!!!!
Superman kills Zod. Now, everyone knows that Superman has a very strict no-kill policy. It's as distinct as his red underwear (which is sadly missing from his suit this time around). However, Zod had nothing left to live for after Superman foiled his plan. So he forced Superman’s hand by trying to barbeque some innocent civilians with his heat vision. Despite Superman’s pleas for him to stop, Zod refused. So Clark had no choice in the heat of the moment (no pun intended but it stays) but to kill him.
Many people hated that, but I loved this moment. Superman just killed the last remnant of his race, and hates himself for it. Henry Cavill’s reaction made that scene much more powerful. Plus, for people complaining that Superman is so perfect, he had to make a very real choice between the lives of civilians or the last of his kind. Superman chose Earth. Either way, I hope that we see the ramifications of Zod’s death ripple through the next Superman films. And, to go full geek on you all, Superman had been forced to kill a few times in the comics, mainly Zod.
What’s next?
Now that Man of Steel has come out and is cleaning house at the box office, my questions is what’s the plan? One of my biggest issues with how DC/Warners has handled their comic properties is not having a clear plan. As of right now, we know that Warners is fast-tracking a Man of Steel sequel with both Zack Snyder and David Goyer returning. Other than that, we hear Warners is developing a Wonder Woman movie or considering a Flash film or wanting to do a Justice League film in 2015. However, they have not revealed any type of release strategy for their DC Movie Nation.
Having a clear plan and sticking all those milestones is one of many reasons why Marvel has been so successful in their Shared Cinematic Universe.
The Monday after the first Iron Man film broke bank, we got a three year release schedule from Marvel. DC/Warners needs to show us what the road is to Justice League, and deliver on those dates.
Right now, they’ve grabbed the public’s interest in a larger DC Universe. Now they need to take their time, not rush into Justice League yet, introduce us to some characters other than Batman or Superman, and make movie magic.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To The Critics:
Let's start with the simple problems most critics had with the film; pacing and story development. If you're searching for someone who doesn't know the origin of Superman, you're going to be searching a while. The film saved us the time of going through the nuances of Clark's life that we've read, seen, and recanted a thousand times over and showed us new scenarios and the people affected by them. I met the fathers of Clark/Kal-El, and while I didn't spend too much time with them, learned which parts influenced him and the decisions he makes.
Speaking of character development, how about this being the first film in which Superman openly admits his Christianity? Opinions aside on that, that scene showed more of Midwest Kansas than the entire city of Smallville could provide, and it was true to the origin.
Probably the most frustrating and ignorant criticism I've heard is "action for no reason"...seriously? The world is at stake. It's going to be destroyed, and it all happened within a few hours. As much as I would love to see Superman go incognito as Clark for 30 minutes, I don't really think he has time for that.
To The Fanboys (Spoilers):
Let's transition to the fanboys and fangirls who are still spewing their rage over the concerned half that cares (themselves and us other geeks) and address perhaps their biggest issues. From smallest to large let's start with Lois. Who cares if she knows his secret identity! Ask yourself this. What respect can you possibly have for a woman who is an award winning journalist and still can't figure out the identity of a man who has saved her several hundred times? Of course she's going to figure it out. It's time to stop pretending glasses make that much of an impact on the face.
Alright that was just a warm up, and in all honesty the majority of you who found a problem with that was small at best. The real issue was Zod, and 100% why you are reading this to either throw your hands up in agreement or flame the hell out of my email address. Superman killed Zod. Who Cares?
First off, let's remember that Superman has killed before, Doomsday of course being the most common example. Although its canon has been disputed, (because in comics it's seemingly impossible to keep a storyline consistent) Superman also killed 3 rogue Kryptonians that had eradicated that universe's human race in Superman: Executioner.
He wasn't happy about this, and nor was he with Zod in the film. What did you expect? He was going to trick them into removing their own powers after an epic foresight on the actions of Lex Luthor? Perhaps he was to peel a magic logo off his chest and incarcerate him with it? Please, let's keep this based in reality. Superman did what Superman would really do in a tough situation, protect the human race. That's his end game, every time. It was kill, or be killed, and he was left with no other choice.
Seriously there was no other choice. Having just discovered certain powers, he couldn't go to the Fortress of Solitude, he couldn't wipe Zod of his powers, and he most certainly couldn't get Zod to kneel. This is a key element I think most fans are blinded by.
Let's not forget that this was, in fact, an origin story. He took on Zod...in his origin story. It doesn't get much tougher than that. This is his Batman: Year One scenario, and it was a hell of a task to take on having just learned how to fly.
Superman. That's What They're Calling Him.
Ultimately, who is Superman? A man of two worlds. This film was the perfect origin as it showed his clear decision on which world he wished to be a part of. Of course, you knew which side he was going to choose but it showed you why it happened and all the reasons why he shouldn't. For this reason, I list this at the top of my favorite Superman films.
I look at the comics. I look at the cartoons. I look to the old films. When I look at Man of Steel, I see the Superman for the 21st century, a current and accurate representation of truth, justice and the American way. His transgressions are what keep him human, and his sacrifice shows his true love for humanity. In terms of heroes, I would expect nothing less.
Thankfully, Warner Bros saw that after the poorly received Superman Returns. Was the film perfect? Not by a long shot. While there were a few moments of levity here and there, like when Clark first learned to fly and during his interaction with Lois after he dons the famous suit, the film does feel a bit too serious and even dour.
Along with that, it would have been nice to see a distinct showcase of Superman’s abilities in use when he was fighting Zod and his cronies. That would have been his edge on these Kryptonians who had little experience with the use of their abilities.
Plus, something that was unanimously an issue with fans was how during Zod and Superman’s borderline demolition of Metropolis, Superman gave not a whit of interest in the collateral damage. That is always a big aspect of Superman, trying to contain a superpowered fight away from the civilians. The causalities must have been in the thousands given how many skyscrapers they knocked over. Even though he stopped Zod, why would the US or any country trust him given how much destruction he and his kind caused across just one major city? Just saying.
Now, what worked?
First off, Krypton does explode so we can all relax there.
Let me also say that the reimagining of Krypton was amazing. This is very different from any other iteration of that planet on or off screen. The technology is very advanced, liquid metal at times in ways that are reminiscent of The Matrix. Even the little details such as the family crests are fantastic. Apparently, they made over 300 different family crests for this film. All the political intrigue and coups prior to Krypton’s destruction really worked for me, partially due to Michael Shannon and Russell Crowe owning the scenes they were in together. I could have stayed longer on Krypton before its explosion, but obviously the story was about Superman.
And Henry Cavill IS Superman. He’s everything a fan could hope for in a new Man of Steel. The character doesn’t need to be dark and gritty just to adapt to modern times. However, I like how we see Clark choose to become Superman instead of getting brainwashed for 12 years by his bio daddy. Along with that, Clark is still finding his footing in this new role, and Cavill embodies that loneliness and confusion in the earlier parts of the movie perfectly.
I was at first hesitant about Amy Adams as Lois, mainly because of the huge age difference and that she looked more like a Lana Lang than a Lois. But she worked for me very much, a tough as nails woman who’s good at her job but still has an overwhelming knack for getting into trouble.
Michael Shannon owned as Zod. He was not a caricature, but a man who was literally made from birth to be a soldier. His sole purpose is to protect Krypton. Anyone who gets in his way is an obstacle that must be removed. Antje Traue worked wonderfully as Zod’s right-hand Faora, not saying much but delivering ass-kickings when needed.
All the supporting cast worked for me, too. Russell Crowe and Kevin Costner added gravitas as Clark’s two fathers, though I could have done with a little less of the constant hammering home of Clark’s greater destiny. Lawrence Fishburne could have gotten a little more to do as Perry White, but I’m guessing we’ll see that in later films.
I did like how the Superman name came to be in this film. Lois was about to name him that before the Army rudely interrupted. But the name got bandied about given the S on Clark’s chest, which is the family crest of House El and stands for Hope.
A big change that I enjoyed but might irk long-time fans is how Superman and Lois first meet. Not to spoil this, but it actually makes a lot of sense given the modern day context of the movie. I mean, Lois IS a Pulitzer Prize winning investigative reporter and not an idiot.
Another smart choice David Goyer and Zack Snyder made was how all the other Kryptonians in Zod’s crew didn’t adjust so quickly to Earth’s Sun (unlike in the show Smallville). Zod, when his protective helmet gets damaged, is overwhelmed at first by all his enhanced senses. And other than Zod, who worked to master his new powers, all the other Kryptonians could only Hulk-leap to get where they were going instead of flying outright.
Superman having trouble fighting Zod and his soldiers at first made perfect sense as well. For one, from what we can tell, the Superman in this film had never really used his powers in a fighting capacity before Zod arrived. Two, he has never encountered any person as strong as him, let alone several people. And three, Zod and his officers are all trained soldiers bred from birth to be the best, whereas Clark is not. This made for very interesting fight sequences in both the battle of Smallville and Metropolis.
And of course, the final battle between Zod and Superman. Other than the potential collateral damage that I had issues with, this fight made the destruction of New York City in The Avengers look like a minor earthquake. I’m glad we finally got to see Superman fighting a superpowered foe and the devastation that could occur because of this. Which leads us to how the fight ended.
MAJOR SPOILERS.
PROCEED AT YOUR OWN PERIL.
Last warning!!!!
Superman kills Zod. Now, everyone knows that Superman has a very strict no-kill policy. It's as distinct as his red underwear (which is sadly missing from his suit this time around). However, Zod had nothing left to live for after Superman foiled his plan. So he forced Superman’s hand by trying to barbeque some innocent civilians with his heat vision. Despite Superman’s pleas for him to stop, Zod refused. So Clark had no choice in the heat of the moment (no pun intended but it stays) but to kill him.
Many people hated that, but I loved this moment. Superman just killed the last remnant of his race, and hates himself for it. Henry Cavill’s reaction made that scene much more powerful. Plus, for people complaining that Superman is so perfect, he had to make a very real choice between the lives of civilians or the last of his kind. Superman chose Earth. Either way, I hope that we see the ramifications of Zod’s death ripple through the next Superman films. And, to go full geek on you all, Superman had been forced to kill a few times in the comics, mainly Zod.
What’s next?
Now that Man of Steel has come out and is cleaning house at the box office, my questions is what’s the plan? One of my biggest issues with how DC/Warners has handled their comic properties is not having a clear plan. As of right now, we know that Warners is fast-tracking a Man of Steel sequel with both Zack Snyder and David Goyer returning. Other than that, we hear Warners is developing a Wonder Woman movie or considering a Flash film or wanting to do a Justice League film in 2015. However, they have not revealed any type of release strategy for their DC Movie Nation.
Having a clear plan and sticking all those milestones is one of many reasons why Marvel has been so successful in their Shared Cinematic Universe.
The Monday after the first Iron Man film broke bank, we got a three year release schedule from Marvel. DC/Warners needs to show us what the road is to Justice League, and deliver on those dates.
Right now, they’ve grabbed the public’s interest in a larger DC Universe. Now they need to take their time, not rush into Justice League yet, introduce us to some characters other than Batman or Superman, and make movie magic.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To The Critics:
Let's start with the simple problems most critics had with the film; pacing and story development. If you're searching for someone who doesn't know the origin of Superman, you're going to be searching a while. The film saved us the time of going through the nuances of Clark's life that we've read, seen, and recanted a thousand times over and showed us new scenarios and the people affected by them. I met the fathers of Clark/Kal-El, and while I didn't spend too much time with them, learned which parts influenced him and the decisions he makes.
Speaking of character development, how about this being the first film in which Superman openly admits his Christianity? Opinions aside on that, that scene showed more of Midwest Kansas than the entire city of Smallville could provide, and it was true to the origin.
Probably the most frustrating and ignorant criticism I've heard is "action for no reason"...seriously? The world is at stake. It's going to be destroyed, and it all happened within a few hours. As much as I would love to see Superman go incognito as Clark for 30 minutes, I don't really think he has time for that.
To The Fanboys (Spoilers):
Let's transition to the fanboys and fangirls who are still spewing their rage over the concerned half that cares (themselves and us other geeks) and address perhaps their biggest issues. From smallest to large let's start with Lois. Who cares if she knows his secret identity! Ask yourself this. What respect can you possibly have for a woman who is an award winning journalist and still can't figure out the identity of a man who has saved her several hundred times? Of course she's going to figure it out. It's time to stop pretending glasses make that much of an impact on the face.
Alright that was just a warm up, and in all honesty the majority of you who found a problem with that was small at best. The real issue was Zod, and 100% why you are reading this to either throw your hands up in agreement or flame the hell out of my email address. Superman killed Zod. Who Cares?
First off, let's remember that Superman has killed before, Doomsday of course being the most common example. Although its canon has been disputed, (because in comics it's seemingly impossible to keep a storyline consistent) Superman also killed 3 rogue Kryptonians that had eradicated that universe's human race in Superman: Executioner.
He wasn't happy about this, and nor was he with Zod in the film. What did you expect? He was going to trick them into removing their own powers after an epic foresight on the actions of Lex Luthor? Perhaps he was to peel a magic logo off his chest and incarcerate him with it? Please, let's keep this based in reality. Superman did what Superman would really do in a tough situation, protect the human race. That's his end game, every time. It was kill, or be killed, and he was left with no other choice.
Seriously there was no other choice. Having just discovered certain powers, he couldn't go to the Fortress of Solitude, he couldn't wipe Zod of his powers, and he most certainly couldn't get Zod to kneel. This is a key element I think most fans are blinded by.
Let's not forget that this was, in fact, an origin story. He took on Zod...in his origin story. It doesn't get much tougher than that. This is his Batman: Year One scenario, and it was a hell of a task to take on having just learned how to fly.
Superman. That's What They're Calling Him.
Ultimately, who is Superman? A man of two worlds. This film was the perfect origin as it showed his clear decision on which world he wished to be a part of. Of course, you knew which side he was going to choose but it showed you why it happened and all the reasons why he shouldn't. For this reason, I list this at the top of my favorite Superman films.
I look at the comics. I look at the cartoons. I look to the old films. When I look at Man of Steel, I see the Superman for the 21st century, a current and accurate representation of truth, justice and the American way. His transgressions are what keep him human, and his sacrifice shows his true love for humanity. In terms of heroes, I would expect nothing less.
Caporegime
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You compare it to the cartoons, old films and comics.
I compare it to the standard of other movies.
Ultimately, whilst it was entertaining, yet it may be a good reboot and decent comic adaptation, it is not in the same league as the Dark Knight Rises.
Soldato
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Its not supposed to be. And by no means can you compare the two.
DKR is the 3rd part of an amazing trilogy where you've already been introduced to the character and backstory.
Comparing it to Batman Begins is a fair comparison. And par for par, Id say they both stand pretty well side by side.
Caporegime
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Of course I can compare the two, especially when you say this.
If you compare to Batman Begins, I'd say Man of Steel come short as well, particualrly with what you said above.
Most important part is we get to see the struggles of a young Clark growing up. He knows he's like a God compared to his peers yet still resists because he trusts his father and sees the bigger picture.
Without the flashback scenes the movie would have been quite a bit weaker. Those scenes kept the story going and on each one you built up a liking for the character and becoming attached to it.
Comparing it to Batman is slightly off because we don't get shown the same kind of development of Bruce so our attachment to that character isn't as strong from an early on point of view.
People need to stop delving too much into plot holes because every film has them and focus more on what's being presented and how.
I think for what it is, a superhero film, they did a damn fine job.
Without the flashback scenes the movie would have been quite a bit weaker. Those scenes kept the story going and on each one you built up a liking for the character and becoming attached to it.
Comparing it to Batman is slightly off because we don't get shown the same kind of development of Bruce so our attachment to that character isn't as strong from an early on point of view.
People need to stop delving too much into plot holes because every film has them and focus more on what's being presented and how.
I think for what it is, a superhero film, they did a damn fine job.
Soldato
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You can, but theres no point. DKR is not an origin story.
Now were onto a proper comparison. But why do you feel it came short?
Also note, I did not "say" those things. I just agree with them and reposted from elsewhere.
This
Seen this again last night..
The special effects were rather bad at times, I guess this was due to it having soo much CGI in (too much in fact).
You then had the camera shaking effect.. This was bloody annoying, like frustrating at times! It made it hard to keep up with what was happening on screen.
The editing was god awful at times also, as well as some pointless scenes.
The score just doesn't work for a Superman film imo, it wasn't memorable like Nolan's Batman films. It feels like it should be the score for some other film.
The special effects were rather bad at times, I guess this was due to it having soo much CGI in (too much in fact).
You then had the camera shaking effect.. This was bloody annoying, like frustrating at times! It made it hard to keep up with what was happening on screen.
The editing was god awful at times also, as well as some pointless scenes.
The score just doesn't work for a Superman film imo, it wasn't memorable like Nolan's Batman films. It feels like it should be the score for some other film.
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(Chocolatestarfishrammer) Those reviews seem to be talking about a different film to the one i watched!
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Let's start with the simple problems most critics had with the film; pacing and story development. If you're searching for someone who doesn't know the origin of Superman, you're going to be searching a while. The film saved us the time of going through the nuances of Clark's life that we've read, seen, and recanted a thousand times over and showed us new scenarios and the people affected by them. I met the fathers of Clark/Kal-El, and while I didn't spend too much time with them, learned which parts influenced him and the decisions he makes.
You cannot have an origin story and expect people to have seen the others to fill in the gaps, that is ridiculous!
Quote:
Let's start with the simple problems most critics had with the film; pacing and story development. If you're searching for someone who doesn't know the origin of Superman, you're going to be searching a while. The film saved us the time of going through the nuances of Clark's life that we've read, seen, and recanted a thousand times over and showed us new scenarios and the people affected by them. I met the fathers of Clark/Kal-El, and while I didn't spend too much time with them, learned which parts influenced him and the decisions he makes.
You cannot have an origin story and expect people to have seen the others to fill in the gaps, that is ridiculous!
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Soldato
- Joined
- 25 Sep 2011
- Posts
- 3,859
I think its more so referring to an alternative to the normal watching clark grow up for a constant hour of the film and then another half hour of him being Clark Kent newsreporter before getting to him actually kicking some ass as superman.
No sure if serious... it's only been released a week so you must have went to watch a showing everyday.
Deadly serious. Three showings on Friday. Two on Saturday and Sunday. 8th showing on Tuesday just gone.