My C2S engine after 50,000 miles and over ten trackdays

Gibbo · 21 Jun 2013 at 21:59

Simon said:
They obviously don't understand the function of oil, nor the effect it can have. Fuel is constantly filling the sump, especially on hard driven cars. My response to this thread is based on discussions with the people who designed the engine and now are responsible for oil approvals.

The fact is liner scuffing can be controlled via the type of detergent in the oil aswell as how it copes with fuel dilution

Shorter drain intervals and hard driving is the reason yours is still ok, will be interesting to see how it looks in a few more miles.

Next oil change send me some old oil and we can have a look how much fuel is in it

Shall do.

From reading up on it, basically seems that the 997.1 cars run too hot, causing bank 2 to potentially score due to getting too hot before the stat open and coolant flows, causing hot spots which can lead to scoring of bank 2. The lower temp stat prevents the hot spots by giving good flow. Yet temperatures within the engine are still hot enough to prevent the dilution you mention. Or so the experts say.

Also the newer 9A1 engine in 997.2 cars has a lower temp stat by default supposedly and they don't suffer scoring, but that's more due to a much better design rather than a thermostat.
The turbo and GT definetely have a lower temp stat by default, those engine also have no scoring issue.

Drop me an email m8 with where to send the oil sample too - [email protected] and I'll send you an oil sample.

Simon · 21 Jun 2013 at 22:31

The M9A1TOP is a beast when running track simulation. 500hp

We will see though. The dry sump doesn't help clear fuel, if the engine needs a low temp stat then how come yours is fine after 50k?

There can be a little scaremongering going on sometimes.

Housey. This is the problem with flat engines. Although the second compression ring is pinned on there to try as stop blue smoke on start up. Oil drains down and pool in the cylinder. Normal inline engines obviously don't have this issue , on the boxer the pinning of the second ring stops both ring gaps lining up.

Brookert · 21 Jun 2013 at 22:32

Does anyone else think it's a bit of a crime for a manufacturer as prestigious as Porsche to suffer such basic mechanical problems on many cars? Bore scoring, ims bearing failure being the big ones I think.

Is it just the case that repair costs are so prohibitive that makes these things seem worse?

Housey · 21 Jun 2013 at 22:34

Simon said:
The M9A1TOP is a beast when running track simulation. 500hp

It will run that in the RS I suspect.

Gibbo · 21 Jun 2013 at 23:00

Simon said:
The M9A1TOP is a beast when running track simulation. 500hp

We will see though. The dry sump doesn't help clear fuel, if the engine needs a low temp stat then how come yours is fine after 50k? There can be a little scaremongering going on sometimes.

Housey. This is the problem with flat engines. Although the second compression ring is pinned on there to try as stop blue smoke on start up. Oil drains down and pool in the cylinder. Normal inline engines obviously don't have this issue , on the boxer the pinning of the second ring stops both ring gaps lining up.

Hartech say mine is fine because I've made the best two possible low cost precautions:
1. 3rd radiator greatly reducing oil temperatures, which it did previous peak on road from a spanking was 112-115c oil temp, never did a track day, but needless to say would have got even hotter. After fitting 3rd radiator oil temp struggles to exceed 105c on the road even after a spanking and it stays below 110c on track. This seems to be the best mod which has an impact.
2. Me changing the oil every 5 mins.

So though a low temp stat might help I think we can all agree on that changing the oil more regular is best preventive measure, as Porsche reccommended 20k interval is simply way too long. Though the turbo and GT cars are a different engine design they don't suffer the same issue and funnily enough they have a 12k interval and lower temp stats by default.

Gibbo · 21 Jun 2013 at 23:08

Simon said:
The M9A1TOP is a beast when running track simulation. 500hp

I found it funny in the latest video from Chris Harris on the GT3 how he mentioned he'll be amazed if it reaches 100k miles.

The M96/M97 has it's flaws which a lot point and have been proven to be down to lack of cooling of certain parts, plus other issues such as IMS.

Simon · 21 Jun 2013 at 23:08

Point 1 proves my point about lower temp stats being a band aid for compromised cooling. You did it right first time.

Gibbo · 21 Jun 2013 at 23:12

Simon said:
Point 1 proves my point about lower temp stats being a band aid for compromised cooling. You did it right first time.

Yep and Porsche sell the X51 radiator kit for sub £100 which includes everything! Yet to buy just a radiator from them is £200, bonkers when the kit which includes the radiator cost half.

More and more people are adding 3rd radiators, should be a must have modification on these cars as it's required.

Housey · 21 Jun 2013 at 23:15

Normal splitter was 220 quid, the racing version was 100 quid, go figure, both worked.

eidolon · 22 Jun 2013 at 08:27

Housey said:
When I got my GT3 it had done 6K in 2.5 years from new and wouldn't tick over and kept stalling.

That's worrying. Why would a car behave so badly just because it's done low mileage? Surely Porsche aren't that crap?

I've got 3 vehicles (2 bikes and a car). My Mini does maybe 5-6k per year and ticks over perfectly, doesn't stall, runs smooth etc. My ZX6R has only done 500 miles in the last 2 years and it works perfectly, and my FZ6 has done about 1000 miles in the last year and again it works absolutely faultlessly. How come Mini, Kawasaki and Yamaha can produce vehicles that don't have the same problems as you describe when subjected to similar (or even worse) conditions.

Brookert said:
Does anyone else think it's a bit of a crime for a manufacturer as prestigious as Porsche to suffer such basic mechanical problems on many cars? Bore scoring, ims bearing failure being the big ones I think.

My point exactly. Housey's story about the Porsche and the regular threads about the necessity for the BMW warranty makes me think that these companies are doing something wrong and need to step up their game.

Housey · 22 Jun 2013 at 10:30

To be fair most cars do a lot more than 6k miles in 2.5 years so the rough running would probably not show itself but the reality is most cars work better when they are used as they are meant to be used. All sorts of stuff happens when a car is sat for a long time and a good run helps them.