First Aid/CPR: Taught enough in Schools?

hellarda

hellarda

hellarda

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Afternoon,

I have been thinking about this after a situation that occurred last night when I was at a friends house with about 10 others (all around 18 years old). We were just starting to go to sleep when of the girls said her bf wasn't breathing (he has bad asthma apparently), luckily myself and another girl (I was a lifeguard until quite recently and she works for St johns ambulance) were able to get him breathing again and inside until the ambulance arrived.

The story is not the important part but my question is, why is first aid not taught regularly in schools? I remember doing a couple of First aid sessions at school (maybe 2 over the course of 4 years or so) but that stuff easily gets forgotten. Which was proved by the fact that everyone else last night sat there with absolutely no idea what to do or were panicking etc. Even when I said 'Someone call an ambulance' no one moved until I said it again more forcefully.

I dread to think what could have happened if myself or the other girls weren't there.

Personally I feel that First Aid/CPR should be taught regularly at schools (maybe once a term?) as it could save someones life.

Is there any reason it's not taught at schools?

Sorry for the long post just a bit of a scary situation and I was shocked at how no one had any idea what to do.
 
hellarda said:
Afternoon,
We were just starting to go to sleep when of the girls said her bf wasn't breathing (he has bad asthma apparently), luckily myself and another girl (I was a lifeguard until quite recently and she works for St johns ambulance) were able to get him breathing again.
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Wow. In my years of working for the ambulance service I have never known someone who was genuinely in cardiac or resp arrest recover effective breathing on their own by by stander CPR only.... Indeed only a hand full of the arrests I've been involved in result in what I would call a positive outcome for the patient... I suspect what you mean is that you encouraged him to manage his breathing more effectively until the ambulance arrives.

To answer your original point, yes first aid needs to be more widely taught. People leaving school should be able to distinguish between a life threatening bleed and a cut finger, and know how to deal with both.
 
One of the fundamental problems is that research has shown that professionals forget how to use these skills within a matter of months. So yes why I do agree it should be done you have to ask would those people be using the skills effectively and also whether those skills would have any real benefit anyway. The success rate from adult CPR outside of a medical setting is notably poor - different in paediatrics (due to the causation etc) but I think most people would be able to deal with a choking episode if they could get over panic. The question being if they could get over the panic and that can't be taught.
 
For 2 years I used to facilitate First Aid/CPR lessons between St John and Year 10 & 11 students and at least 50% of them refused to kneel down by a dummy meaning I had to fail them but I suppose that means 50% might have remembered what to do.
You've also got the phenomenon that 99% of people will just walk past a person in distress anyway. I remember an experiment being setup where a bloke sat down by a wall in a shopping precinct holding his chest and over a 1000 people walked past him.
 
To the OP:

I work in a school, and what you have to remember is many teachers are afraid of teaching first aid due to them not understanding that it can be massively useful, and if the training is done following the guidance they are (legally) protected. I teach it and it is not only fun to teach and learn, but it can make a massive difference to lives.

There are plenty of schemes, such as the BHF heartstart and St John to name just 2, but when education is being measured against the fixed measures of exam results and ofstead love sticks to bash schools, where is the push to do it?

FluffySheep
 
hellarda said:
I dread to think what could have happened if myself or the other girls weren't there.
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He'd have died, well done to you two for saving his life.

Being 16, and have being in school from Reception till around Year 9 I was not once taught any medical skills, it was on my own back that I joined my local St Johns group (right up from when I was about yr4/5 till 2 years ago) and thus able to perform First Aid on someone.

(A little boast - Me and my partner were the first people from our county to represent the region in the Regional Finals.)

Although it's been a long time since I've done any serious first aid on a real person or a dummy, I still remember (it could be out of date by now) that it's 30 Compressions + 2 Mouth to Mouth and able to perform them safely.

I'm with you on teaching students how to do so, we rely on our Ambulances too much these days, even if it's a day workshop in Year 10 or 11 it really could save someones life.

Edit to anyone that knows, is DRABC still in service in teaching people what to do at arrival at scene?

Edit2: @FluffySheep I'm sure if schools made sure everything was sorted, a local St John's group would throw together a lesson.
 
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CPR is largely useless in a paediatric population as the vast majority of paediatric arrests are respiratory. So all you need is a bit of mouth to mouth until the ambulance arrives.

Management of choking is important though especially in younger age groups.
 
MrMoonX said:
not really as the lungs close up during and asthma attack
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And when the person stops breathing they relax enough to provide an adequate airway for CPR. Same as for a blocked airway in choking. Whilst air may not be able to pass through the airway when conscious it invariably can when unconscious.

Minstadave said:
CPR is largely useless in a paediatric population as the vast majority of paediatric arrests are respiratory. So all you need is a bit of mouth to mouth until the ambulance arrives.

Management of choking is important though especially in younger age groups.
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Simply not true. CPR covers respiratory and cardiac arrest at a basic level. CPR in paediatrics covers the specifics you mentioned that is why there is a difference in the algorithms - one for adult and one for children. Paediatric CPR will also include the choking algorithms.
 
Basic first aid probably should be taught from a young age but from the times I've heard the subject come up in conversation a lot of people are afraid of the implications of doing it wrong and either the outcome of that (making a situation worse or even killing someone) or getting sued.
 
When my daughter had an asthma attack and stopped breathing to the point that her bladder and bowl relaxed, a sign that all is not well, my training kicked in. Her heart was doing about 2 beats every 5 seconds and was very faint in her kneck.

I knew the only way I could help her back to life was to get some inhaler into her lungs the ambulance was 5 mins away, I got her inhaler and saturated myself with it, twist suck, twist suck twist suck twist suck holding as much in my mouth and lungs as I could. Then opening her airway head tipped back nose pinched I forced air into her lungs. I did the same thing 3 times twsit suck twist suck on her inhaler and breathed for her. As I was about to do it for the 4th times she let out a sigh and a large intake of air and started breathing on her own again. Her eyes came back from being rolled back and her blue lips and white face started to fill with colour.

The ambulance guys came into the house and up stairs and I'll never forget there words "nice work dad, we've got it from here" Turns out the lady on the phone was relaying every thing I was doing to try and get my daughter to breath by herself over the radio to the ambulance guys.

If you know any one with asthma learn CPR now!
 
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For something so simple that could possibly save somebody's life i'd much rather they taught first aid instead of half the stuff they teach.

As others have mentioned though there is implications for those that attempt CPR. Perhaps taking a leaf from the americans and introducing a good samaritan law would be an idea.
 
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I've never actually encountered it within an educational context, IIRC there was a 1 day thing at junior school once (completely one off) where st johns ambulance or something came in where the teacher picked a few students to do it and thats it.
 
Rroff said:
I've never actually encountered it within an educational context, IIRC there was a 1 day thing at junior school once (completely one off) where st johns ambulance or something came in where the teacher picked a few students to do it and thats it.
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I remember having a few lessons on it in year 9/10 as part of 'activity week' at the end of the year.

I know a lot people feel uncomfortable/don't want to help for fear of getting it wrong etc. But surely if you were introduced to it at a young age and were taught it and practised it regularly through school life a lot more of it would stick?
 
Xordium said:
Simply not true. CPR covers respiratory and cardiac arrest at a basic level. CPR in paediatrics covers the specifics you mentioned that is why there is a difference in the algorithms - one for adult and one for children. Paediatric CPR will also include the choking algorithms.
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There is so little need for lay people to use cardiac compressions in a paediatric arrest outside of hospital as cardiac arrest is so rare.

I find the idea of an asthmatic becoming effectively resucitatable with BLS once they've arrested highly unlikely, yes they may loose airway tone but their airways are so oedematous you won't shift any air with mouth to mouth. Normally they're hugely hyperexpanded.
 
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