Summer Transfer Window 2013/2014 aka Arsenal , we can afford folks and the mancs really want Fellani

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I said we're not striving to be another ManU. By this I mean we have a different approach at Arsenal, so what might work at OT (ego's and celebrity), does not work at Emirates. It is very naive of you to assume that we want the the OT rejects like Rooney, or that we somehow need them to stand a chance of being having ManU-like success; this is another example of the ManU ego where every other club is expected to worship 'the club' and follow their model for success, rather than doing their own thing, including some making mistakes along the way.

ManU may need our cast-offs but we don't need yours (dolphinhead aside) ;)

Not arrogant, just better.
 
I said we're not striving to be another ManU. By this I mean we have a different approach at Arsenal, so what might work at OT (ego's and celebrity), does not work at Emirates. It is very naive of you to assume that we want the the OT rejects like Rooney, or that we somehow need them to stand a chance of being having ManU-like success; this is another example of the ManU ego where every other club is expected to worship 'the club' and follow their model for success, rather than doing their own thing, including some making mistakes along the way.

I think you are a bit confused - if anything SAF instilled exactly the opposite in all his players

I guess ANY success doesnt work at the Emirates either:D
 
I don't see whats so great about this to be honest.

7th isn't where Rooney should be aiming for (even considering RvP at the same club, Bale, Aguerro), and to be honest it isn't even close.

By all means "fluff" the figures by talking about "contribution" (which in itself is a bit of a loose definition), but one of the greatest players at the club and at the club who won the league, at his best he should be contributing a lot more.

And no Mata is no comparison - at the end of the day they were fighting for 3rd/4th at the end of the season, not 1st.


And I don't understand what more you want from a player who's been played out of position, dropped for no reason and lied about by his manager even though he has produced 28% of the teams goals.
If doing that is no big deal, please explain why only 7 players have done better than him this season.
 
And I don't understand what more you want from a player who's been played out of position, dropped for no reason

If he kept his fitness, then maybe he would stand more chance of playing where he wanted (or playing at all for that matter)

To be fair if it hadnt been for Nani's sending off vs Real, Utd stood a fantastic chance of knocking them out. Looking at it that way SAF made the right choice by dropping Rooney for that game

lied about by his manager

Unless you were actually in the room, you (or anyone else) has no idea what went on, and its unlikely the WHOLE truth will come out for some time to come.

even though he has produced 28% of the teams goals.
If doing that is no big deal, please explain why only 7 players have done better than him this season.

Again you like sticking with the loose terms - "produced" means nothing and you know it as well as I do. How many did De Gea "produce" by kicking / throwing etc from the goal line?

Given that its Rooney, playing for one of the biggest clubs in the country with decent players around him should be assisting or scoring a lot more - not just helping (as good a description as "producing" or "contributing") or any other loose term you want to think up.

Im sure Evra (or one of the others who played majority of the 38 leagues games) contributed an even higher percentage.
 
At least atpbx has his head screwed on RE: Rooney.

Frank, there was also a statistic that went along the lines (was about March or before) that in Rooneys last 28 consecutive (league) games he'd scored or assisted every time.

He's a massive contributor to our team and I don't think people understand what we'd lose.
 
I never understood how players agree terms without the clib acceping a bid? Or am I following the protocol of FM here?? :p

Seems to be the same reported with Higuain and Thiago.

Regarding Thiago do Barca have a choice in the matter? I was under the assumption if a player has a buyout clause and a club triggers it the selling club have their hands tied do they not?
 
At least atpbx has his head screwed on RE: Rooney.

Frank, there was also a statistic that went along the lines (was about March or before) that in Rooneys last 28 consecutive (league) games he'd scored or assisted every time.

He's a massive contributor to our team and I don't think people understand what we'd lose.

He scored 11 and assisted 12 I think. So he doesn't even have 28 goals and assists combined to make your statistic true.

They do say 99% of statistics are made up lol

Rvp replaced him as top dog and obviously he never reacted in a positive way.

If you think fergie would have just dropped him for no reason then you need to think again.

He just isn't a £200 - 300k per week player. I hope utd keep him or give him a pay rise lol
 
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Regarding Thiago do Barca have a choice in the matter? I was under the assumption if a player has a buyout clause and a club triggers it the selling club have their hands tied do they not?

I thought the buyout clauses in Spain only applied to Spanish clubs?

It's not even as simple as that. Sid Lowe wrote a piece on these buyout clauses the other year. I believe they're a legal requirement (something to do with Spanish contract law) but that the only way that they can be legally activated is if the player himself pays the club the amount in his clause. And before anybody asks, no, the buying club can't simply give the player the money because as soon as they do, he'll pay 40+% income tax on it.

As Cliffy touched on, Sid Lowe mentioned that there's a gentleman's agreement between Spanish clubs that they'll sell if another Spanish club pays the buyout clause + all the taxes involved. He made it very clear that these clauses are totally meaningless to clubs outside Spain.

The only way that Utd can sign Thiago for €18m (or whatever the value of his clause is) would be if Barca were happy to let him go for that. They don't have to sell him to Utd if they don't want to.
 
He scored 11 and assisted 12 I think. So he doesn't even have 28 goals and assists combined to make your statistic true.

They do say 99% of statistics are made up lol

Rvp replaced him as top dog and obviously he never reacted in a positive way.

If you think fergie would have just dropped him for no reason then you need to think again.

He just isn't a £200 - 300k per week player. I hope utd keep him or give him a pay rise lol

It may well have been across all comps, then. I'm on my phone so can't really be bothered to check. It's not 'my' statistic either, it was one I read and heard during matches.

I don't believe Fergie dropped him for no reason. He was in a bad patch of form, sure. But shifting him all around the pitch and trying to get him to do things that he isn't cut out for (ie. CM) isn't going to help that either.

He had a poor season like this one where he struggled with fitness, injuries and playing poor. Then he bounced back with a 34 (?) goal season. He is a temperamental player that if he's stop starting, not really getting into form and struggling then he will remain like that. It's seen though that if he builds confidence and gets a good few games under his belt he will be off.

You are only worth what people are willing to pay at the end of the day, not what people on forums endlessly squabble over what they think you are worth.
 
It's not even as simple as that. Sid Lowe wrote a piece on these buyout clauses the other year. I believe they're a legal requirement (something to do with Spanish contract law) but that the only way that they can be legally activated is if the player himself pays the club the amount in his clause. And before anybody asks, no, the buying club can't simply give the player the money because as soon as they do, he'll pay 40+% income tax on it.

As Cliffy touched on, Sid Lowe mentioned that there's a gentleman's agreement between Spanish clubs that they'll sell if another Spanish club pays the buyout clause + all the taxes involved. He made it very clear that these clauses are totally meaningless to clubs outside Spain.

The only way that Utd can sign Thiago for €18m (or whatever the value of his clause is) would be if Barca were happy to let him go for that. They don't have to sell him to Utd if they don't want to.

Bayern Munich got around all of this with their purchase of Martinez and avoided the tax etc.

Ill try and dig up the explanation/article on it when home.

EDIT: Most of the time I think buyout clauses are more of a indication as to what the club will let the player go for and if you roughly go near it then they are likely to be interested, rather than a legally buying automatic 'they are my player now' kind of thing.
 
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I know what you're talking about re Bayern & Martinez but it's not really relevant. The transfer was VAT exempt, Bilbao weren't forced to sell to Bayern though, even with Bayern matching the fee in his deal. They chose to accept it.
Shirley they could also have a clause for whatever they wanted, so they could have another clause which stipulated that if he didn't play x% of games, he could go for y€s (to any club, with that club 'just' having to pay the parent club, not with it having to come from/through the player)? They could have any number of clauses saying any number of things - they could have a clause saying that he's free to leave for nothing, if Santa comes down to Barca with his reindeer and asks nicely for him to come to Lapland to be an elf, if they so wanted.
They could but I've not read anything that mentions this as a 2nd clause in his deal. Also, as atpbx cleared up, the value of the clause would have risen had he played a certain number of games, not that he could leave for x amount if he didn't play those games.

Also, I read something about buyout clauses in general (it was regarding Suarez) that claimed that no buyout clause where another club pays a certain fee can be legally enforced. Not sure how accurate that is though.
 
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Here's what Sid Lowe wrote the other year:
Spain's buyout clauses have often been set up as a deterrent -- symbolic, gigantic figures to warn off suitors. Sergio Busquets has just renewed his deal with Barcelona for example and his buyout clause is now €150M ($204M). But they do also have a practical use. They form part of a legal framework and also a gentleman's agreement between clubs. Which is why the price is not always the price. Because clubs are not always gentlemanly about it.

Under the terms of that basic agreement, clubs accepted that another club which paid the buyout clause could sign a player without resistance. If it's €45M, you pay €45M and you take your player, no mess and no fuss. It is, essentially, a price set at which you say you will sell.

But you don't necessarily have to sell at that price; that agreement has a legal foundation that is a little different. At an informal level, the modus operandi has been altered since Real Madrid walked off with Luis Figo for the symbolic but just about manageable figure of 10,000M pesetas. The buyout clause remains, but the application of it is different.

Now most clubs are saying: this is the buyout clause, sure, but if you make a hostile bid, a bid that we do not welcome, we will force you to apply the clause legally. And when you apply the law legally, that is a different issue. When you apply the law legally, it is a different price.

That means one of two things, both of which increase the price. Firstly, it can mean adding the VAT at 18 percent. In the past, clubs have agreed to include VAT in the invoice for a player's transfer (which of course can be claimed back from the state). Now, if the bid is hostile, they will not. In other words, the buying club will have to pay the clause plus the 18 percent. So, Aguero's price rises from €45M to €53.1M ($72M).

The other option is for a club to simply refuse to sell -- until, that is, it is forced to. That's where the legal buyout clause kicks in, Decreto Real 1006/1985. But that decree is exactly what it says it is: a buyout clause. A player (not the club) deposits the money, the value of the buyout clause, at the Spanish league and unilaterally breaks his contract. That money, of course, would be given to him by the buying club in order to buy himself out. The problem is that as soon as that money hits his account it counts as income -- even if it is then deposited elsewhere. And so it is liable to taxation at 44 percent. In other words, the €45M is the amount left after taxation. That is to say that Aguero's overall cost is €80.2M ($109M).

The other factor that's significant is that the buyout clause is a Spanish agreement. When it comes to international transfers -- to bids from aboard like the one supposedly from Chelsea -- it is irrelevant. Except as a symbolic price, a reference point from which you can negotiate.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...atletico.buyouts/index.html?eref=twitter_feed
 
No explanation was given. It was said by a guy doing a MBA in Football Industries. He could be wrong but he generally knows his stuff when it comes to finance/legal stuff in football.
 
Alcaraz, Kone and McGeady could all be done by Monday. The first two could be announced on the weekend when Martinez is back.


Inspirational signings... though I guess they're better than Hitz, Nev and Mucha who they're basically replacing on the wage bill.
 
Real Madrid offer players to Tottenham as Bale bait
Now Real Madrid have their manager in place, they have turned their attention to tempting Gareth Bale to join them from Tottenham.

And in order do that, The Times report, they will offer Gonzalo Higuain and Fabio Coentrao as makeweights in a players-plus-cash deal.
Higuain is an especially controversial player to propose to Spurs, as it is believed that the Argentine striker is on the brink of joining north London rivals Arsenal.

But the paper says that in 2011 Andre Villas-Boas attempted to sign Higuain – when he was manager at Chelsea.

Spurs are in the market for at least one striker this summer, so Higuain’s proven class could tempt them – while 25-year-old Coentrao, a £24m acquisition for Madrid just two years ago, still appears to have his best years ahead of him.

The Times decline to mention how much the ‘plus-cash’ part would be if Higuain and Coentrao were included in the deal, but repeated the estimate of £85m for a straight cash deal.

The Daily Mirror have the very same idea of a player-plus-cash bid for Bale, but a different player – Angel di Maria.

And a bigger name linked with a Barcelona exit is David Villa, who the Daily Mail claim is to hold crunch talks with Tottenham over a summer transfer.
Newly-installed technical director Franco Baldini is leading the talks, although Roberto Soldado and Leandro Damiao are the back-up options.
 
^^^ LOL why would Higuain go to a team that might potentially lose their best player and also a club who havent finished above Arsenal since 1995 in the league:p.

Pfft tabloids and their silly rumours, really is hilarious to what lengths they will go to.
 
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