and not only criminals, all kinds of agencies, companies and even individuals could use such information to target an individual based solely on what their income and financial position is.
A publicly transparent benefits system, would it work?
- Thread starter Colbaker
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and not only criminals, all kinds of agencies, companies and even individuals could use such information to target an individual based solely on what their income and financial position is.
Soldato
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You're a functioning member of society and the taxes you pay and the money you make from society (and I'm not just talking benefits here) are society's business.
My views on this area are fairly socialistic and I am generally an advocate of transparency.
In Norway and (in my understanding) Sweden, personal income and taxes are all public. Not only can you find this information individually, but you can rank them nationally. Finland similar but I can't remember the exact access protocol. Is society breaking down there? Is it being exploited by criminals or companies? Not that any scientific research can suggest...
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No they are not. They are my business. I am entitled to a level of privacy whether I am a member of society or not.
I am all for transparency, but not when it infringes on basic rights of privacy.
Your understanding seems to be wrong as it is only what a company pays in social security payments to its staff (their system pays through the PAYE system) that is public record, not who receives it on an individual basis. The tax records are available (as are ours if you have good reason to have them) and in any case it is a very limited amount of information you can get, and doesn't include social security payments or specific information..only their income and tax burden and then only middle to high taxpayers were included, and now you must demonstrate you have a legitimate need for the information (Norway includes everyone and this is sporadic, as the Norwegian public are pretty much against this since it became easy to look it up, and different Governments suspend it periodically.) There is also accusation and incidences of the information being sold to third parties and used to target individuals. So the rest of your post is moot.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/d...rns-us-into-scandinavians-so-much-the-better/
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I love the 'Right to privacy' argument being brought forward in this thread (which I agree with) just after the debacle of the 'If you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear' dismissal of our right to privacy in the thread about the authorities carrying out mass surveillance on everyone's electronic communications.
Quite...that is exactly what happens in Scandinavia. People look up potential in-laws, husbands, wives, employees, contractors, girlfriends, boyfriends and so on....
Since the advent of the internet, it is not a matter of how long will it be until we follow their example, but how long it will be until they follow ours. Italy tried it and the people went mental...luckily we have a system of laws and European legislation that would prohibit such invasions of privacy..and if they ever did..I would move to the US where there constitution prohibits such.
They shouldn't be doing that either...whether I have anything to hide or not, my business is mine, not everyone's...unless I decide it is.
Dolph, is that you?
We already have that, this would just compound the problem.
Quite - with the caveat of course that the authorities have the ability to be independently granted access to monitor what you are doing if they have suspicion of you being a bad boy, and we have these mechanisms in place. Which is as much control over my life I am happy to acquiesce.
A major benefit of such a system would be its simplicity relative to the current system. The devil is in the detail for these sorts of proposals; a starter might be to look over this sort of information (pdf file) and to try and pick holes in it.
Soldato
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Apparently you haven't been thinking...
Invasion of people's privacy is the new in thing. Anybody who resists is obviously up to no good (they aren't but you get he point)
With attitudes like the OP's it's a wonder things aren't worse.
Soldato
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Don't go giving the Conservatives any ideas.
Caporegime
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Stupid idea, stupid thread.
I'm normally a bit more in depth than this with my replies, but I feel I don't need to be here. Everyone's financial status should be made public then?
I dont think you can comprehend the troubles this will cause. The main one would be violence. Yes seriously. In other less educated parts of the country, yobs and racists and the like would be utterly so consumed with jealousy that they would resort to violence just to get the fact that a muslim family gets a benefit they were turned down for, off their chest.
Stigma is an issue as well. Many disabled people are very proud people who have worked many years. They don't want all their neighbours and friends to know that they now live solely on disability benefits. Therefore, quite a lot would not claim what they were entitled to.
Bonkers idea.
I'm normally a bit more in depth than this with my replies, but I feel I don't need to be here. Everyone's financial status should be made public then?
I dont think you can comprehend the troubles this will cause. The main one would be violence. Yes seriously. In other less educated parts of the country, yobs and racists and the like would be utterly so consumed with jealousy that they would resort to violence just to get the fact that a muslim family gets a benefit they were turned down for, off their chest.
Stigma is an issue as well. Many disabled people are very proud people who have worked many years. They don't want all their neighbours and friends to know that they now live solely on disability benefits. Therefore, quite a lot would not claim what they were entitled to.
Bonkers idea.
Soldato
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Like I said: The OP didn't do any thinking...
Associate
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And, of course, there is no difference at all between letting Govt agencies share your financial details and making that information available to everyone on your street.
Whether the authorities have a right to certain information (and I agree that they have probably gone too far) is a totally different argument to giving it out to all and sundry.