British Grand Prix 2013, Silverstone - Race 8/19
- Thread starter Duke
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Last years tires was hard this years tires are softer so going by that Merc should be well up there but we will know Q3 on Sat
But then its also harder to get the heat into them - so wouldn't it be possible that while Merc now know how to get the right amount of heat into 2013 tyres, working out how to get extra heat into 2012 may not work so well?
I honestly don't know - that "theory" just occurred to me, I have no idea how accurate it is
edit - and just for the record I don't think moving back to 2012 tyres will help McLaren because their car has changed too much since then (as mentioned above)
Are they going to maintain the current weight and just use the older construction, or will the move result in the tyres being lighter again? That could cause teams a few headaches. It is good to see that something is being done, though.
Soldato
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Thanks
As well as everything else that has been said, it will be interesting to see if these tyres affect the aerodynamics of the cars at all. Presumably the old construction didnt quite flex in the same way as this year's tyres so it will certainly change things slightly for the teams. i doubt it will be by much, but i'm sure there will be some difference
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Man of Honour
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Was this what the teams were doing as a performance enhancement?
Not sure why they were doing it, but the one's that exploded were on the wrong wheels ...
The press release is rubbish. Teams have been swapping tyres round, running low pressures and using extreme camber for years, and the curbs have not changed. Pirelli have built tyres not fit for purpose and are desperately trying to cover their butts about it.
McLaren should just give up with the MP4-28 and use the MP4-27. It's not like they've gotten anything to lose now. The 2012 spec tyres should be a known quantity with the old chassis, just stick the new aero bits on and job's a good 'un.
That, or put the front suspension on upside down again
That, or put the front suspension on upside down again
Interesting press release from Pirelli. I have to think they should have known about this going on but when they're unable to test their tyres on up-to-date cars it must be difficult for them to assess the risks of "off-label" use of their tyres.
To be fair IF the teams are running with camber exceeding the guidelines they have been given or running the tyres outside of the intention of the design then they are equally putting their drivers at risk. It doesn't matter if they did it before, all that means is they got away with it before.
Everyone knows these tyres are more fragile and made to wear because omg canada was so awesome.
If a drive had've got hurt or killed and there was a senna type investigation you can bet the team would have been blamed for running a tyre knowingly outside of it's design parameters and instructions given from the supplier.
Then these guidelines need to become more rules. How can one team run within them and the next risk not? It's going to put the first team at a major disadvantage. I've got a wild idea though, and I'm willing to bet it's worked in the past... Make the tyres to a standard that will operate fairly safely outside of the guidelines you set.. Knowing the teams don't have to run by them. They managed it last year.
Caporegime
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As someone above said, this is common in F1, its a part of F1, making tyres where STANDARD usage in F1 is "off-label" points 100% to designing tyres for the wrong use, so the fault is with Pirelli completely.
I think people are making too much about the specific tyre and who will do well on them.
Merc aren't getting heat into a specific tyre and other tyres its worse. Its getting heat into tyres because by car design its heating up the rear tyres more than other cars, thats the same on a hard, medium, soft, inter or wet, it just runs tyres a bit hotter. The harder the tyre choice the better they'll last, they'll still have inferior tyre wear to those that heat up the tyres less(in most cases). Switching the tyres won't help Merc(directly), it will move the entire field, if the tyres run a little cooler, thats the same for everyone. If tyre X currently lasts 15 laps on a Merc it will run 20 on a Lotus, if the next lot of tyres run for 20 laps on a merc, they'll run for 25 laps on the Lotus.
The changing tracks are effecting tyre performance, because at one race the lets say the Lotus can run 30 laps on hard, 20 laps on medium and the race is 49 laps, so its perfect. Another track they'll do the same but the race is 60 laps, so they have to make a second stop.
Now the same two tracks lets same Merc can do 18 and 25 laps, that first 49 lap race 18+25+25, it has to do 2 stops to Lotus's one stop... boo, in the next race the Merc STILL only does 2 stops, and now Lotus have lost the advantage.(I was using changing laps to make it easier to understand, in reality we have changing lap numbers and changing tyre conditions at different tracks).
Some races are going to line up for a perfect strategy for certain cars, other races it will be just the wrong side of tyre wear and will be disadvantaged.
Merc haven't fixed their tyre wear, the same way they won at Monaco then went backwards in the next races. its likely improved, but the british GP was dictated by everyone scared of exploding tyres, not the pace any of the cars were truly capable of. Merc have been upfront and held position with heavier cars finding it harder and riskier to pass but only in the first stint, after that they've almost always gone backwards(sometimes earlier as well). This weekend after the first stint everyone was in tyre protection mode, with two safety cars and a lot of luck Rosberg got the win, its literally impossible to say who would have won without the tyre blow ups and Vettel's failure.
They were the third best car, at best, in the previous race in which they also started upfront, I have no reason to believe that has changed as yet.
New tyres will help and hurt ALL teams at some stage for the rest of the season. In fact it could just as easily increase the number of races in which Lotus can do less stops than others, as increase the number of races in which Merc hold on for more points.
Merc's young(not young) driver test loss could have a significant impact on the rest of the season, everyone is getting a 3 day(iirc?) test in which to improve and test parts that Merc haven't and won't get.
I do think their overall tyre wear will improve throughout the season as I would guess the vast majority of focus on the 2013 car and then inseason development was on tyre wear. I just doubt they'll "fix" that problem completely. That car is fast though and Hamilton on older tyres was crazy impressive in that final stint vs Alonso/Webber considering the older tyres both hanging on to then gaining on Alonso was amazing.
I believe that the FIA will have inspectors at the track to make sure that any team running the Tyre test with Race Drivers doesn't run any new parts and doesn't make changes to the setup, as Mercedes weren't allowed to do. Any team running parts or adjusting setup must run their 'Young' drivers. The test is still the YDT but teams have the option of doing a 'Pirelli' test with fixed setup and Race Drivers I believe.
Soldato
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Drunkenmaster, while I see where you're coming from, I think that you have forgotten that the different construction of the tyres will mean that some suspension geometries will get a bigger advantage than others for this new tyre. It wont be a case of everyone getting better tyre wear by the same amount, there might be a very big difference between the improvements in tyre wear between each team
Soldato
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This I fear is one of the dangers of not allowing testing during the season. The tyres are constantly changing but the teams only feel the difference at Grand Prix practice and racing.
Soldato
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Just to repeat, they will not be 2012 tyres. They will use the 2012 construction with the same 2013 compound that has been used (since testing in November?).
The tyres for the Nurburgring will be an interim measure, using the 2013 construction but with kevlar replacing steel (and presumably the bonding process introduced at Silverstone) - the rest of the tyre will remain the same as before.
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