Relevance of new Time Capsule etc.

I have been looking at this issue in some detail and it's not quite the simple solution many of you suggest.

1. Airport utility no longer has the option to join an existing network when setting up TC etc just extend a network or set up a new network.

2. Many ISP routers are locked down so for example my Plusnet router has no "bridge" setting. You would have the flush it to get bridge mode. Not a job for the average user.

3. Not being able to put the router into bridge mode means that although the user has probably set up a new network in Airport Time Capsule their home network will probably now show them as having two networks i.e. the one the router provides and the one they have just set up in either AE AX or TC. Pretty confusing for the average Joe.

4. I suspect what the average user expects is for the AE AX or TC to handle all their devices with the ISP router acting as a gateway only - that won't be the case. Again the average user would have to sign out of all their current devices and sign into their new network - most won't realise this. Even then I'm not sure what the ISP routers role will be as it's not in Bridge mode.

None of the above is an ideal solution for the average Joe.
 
Not really. Just set up a new network using the same SSID. Any and all devices setup to access it will automatically connect to the access point that has the strongest signal.

Wireless bridging is very very dodgy. Ethernet or power line connectivity between access points and leave the Wi-Fi just to use for client devices.
 
Faustus said:
I have been looking at this issue in some detail and it's not quite the simple solution many of you suggest.

1. Airport utility no longer has the option to join an existing network when setting up TC etc just extend a network or set up a new network.

2. Many ISP routers are locked down so for example my Plusnet router has no "bridge" setting. You would have the flush it to get bridge mode. Not a job for the average user.

3. Not being able to put the router into bridge mode means that although the user has probably set up a new network in Airport Time Capsule their home network will probably now show them as having two networks i.e. the one the router provides and the one they have just set up in either AE AX or TC. Pretty confusing for the average Joe.

4. I suspect what the average user expects is for the AE AX or TC to handle all their devices with the ISP router acting as a gateway only - that won't be the case. Again the average user would have to sign out of all their current devices and sign into their new network - most won't realise this. Even then I'm not sure what the ISP routers role will be as it's not in Bridge mode.

None of the above is an ideal solution for the average Joe.
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1) I'm presuming here that you aren't talking about wireless bridging, merely joining the network as another access point (no DHCP, NAT, etc). In that case, in AU you simply go to Internet, Internet Connection tab, change "Connect Using" to Ethernet, then change "Connection Sharing" to Off.

2) That problem applies to all standalone routers, not just the AEBS. This is a "problem" with the ISP router than the standalone, though of course the ISP router is locked down for a reason (mainly to ensure it just works for average Joes!).

3, 4) See 1.

Of course, the issue here is that the AEBS will simply be little more than an access point/switch. But then again...that applies to all such routers in such configurations.

To be honest I doubt that a huge number of users who have a functioning ISP router will go all out and buy an AEBS for this purpose; most will simply grab themselves a decent WAP and be done with it.

There's more to say...I'll edit this post later on.
 
Surely though unless I'm completely missing the point here, after spending £250 on an AIO solution such as Airport Time Capsule the user would want TC to become the router for all their devices with their ISP supplied modem/router demoted to being a simple gateway to the Internet i.e. acting as a modem only, I certainly would.

From what I have been able to glean from different articles, that isn't as simple a task as one might think. I still haven't found a simple method of achieving this at least not so for your average user. Apple's own instructions appear suitably vague.
 
Faustus said:
Surely though unless I'm completely missing the point here, after spending £250 on an AIO solution such as Airport Time Capsule the user would want TC to become the router for all their devices with their ISP supplied modem/router demoted to being a simple gateway to the Internet i.e. acting as a modem only, I certainly would.

From what I have been able to glean from different articles, that isn't as simple a task as one might think. I still haven't found a simple method of achieving this at least not so for your average user. Apple's own instructions appear suitably vague.
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For most routers it's not that difficult, the problem is every ISP insists in piling on naff custom firmware that locks the router down making integrating them with AE or TC more difficult. Buy a modem or router yourself and its not too difficult.
 
I still don't see what the issue is here. You've decided that the AirPort isn't a suitable product for yourself, so don't buy one. Why over complicate things?

For me, I have an Openreach VDSL modem, it plugs into my AirPort Extreme and then provides me with years of trouble free operation and excellent Wi-Fi. It has very few configurable options, but I don't care about that. My day job is full of configurable networking options, when I get home I just want things to work. I've never had an ISP provided piece of equipment that was able to tick that box.

ISP supplied equipment either being locked to a particular account a la Sky, or not being able to bridge is a defect in the way that ISP provides their services, and not really something Apple have control over.
 
1) I'm presuming here that you aren't talking about wireless bridging, merely joining the network as another access point (no DHCP, NAT, etc). In that case, in AU you simply go to Internet, Internet Connection tab, change "Connect Using" to Ethernet, then change "Connection Sharing" to Off.
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From looking at the latest version of AU this option no longer exists. Apple have paired down this app in the latest version.
 
Caged said:
I still don't see what the issue is here. You've decided that the AirPort isn't a suitable product for yourself, so don't buy one. Why over complicate things?

For me, I have an Openreach VDSL modem, it plugs into my AirPort Extreme and then provides me with years of trouble free operation and excellent Wi-Fi. It has very few configurable options, but I don't care about that. My day job is full of configurable networking options, when I get home I just want things to work. I've never had an ISP provided piece of equipment that was able to tick that box.

ISP supplied equipment either being locked to a particular account a la Sky, or not being able to bridge is a defect in the way that ISP provides their services, and not really something Apple have control over.
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I would never say never, as my existing drive could go **** up tomorrow. I just think that unusually for Apple they have not made these devices as user friendly or relevant as some of their others. Most consumers tend to have ISP supplied router/modems these days and as such using the Apple products with them to achieve an all Apple solution isn't that easy for the average consumer.
 
The Sky router I got did work, just not anywhere as good as it was supposed to. It was stable, with no decent configurability and pretty poor WiFi.

It was replaced pretty quickly, and might soon be using a Time Capsule, as it fits my needs. Always said to have great wifi, stability, ease of use, etc. And, as said many times, if the equipment doesn't fit your needs OP, then you don't need it.

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It's about as simple as dealing with these kind of things can be.

I have a SKY provided router, my Time Capsule plugs into that and I then just connect my devices wirelessly to its WiFi. It doesn't take much in the way of setting up and it provides a faster WiFi connection than the SKY router anyway.

I think another thing you may have overlooked is the ability to backup more than one machine. While you can just connect a harddrive to a machine and use that for time machine, I use my time capsule for making backups of three different machines. You don't have to think about it, it just does it. If my laptop has been at work, it will just run a backup next time I'm at home for example.

So in that respect, its really good for families.
I must confess I don't use Windows too much these days, but when I tried to setup something similar to Time Machine for my Father on his PC, I had to spend ages figuring out how to get it all to work, not so with the Mac.
 
Nexus said:
It's about as simple as dealing with these kind of things can be.

I have a SKY provided router, my Time Capsule plugs into that and I then just connect my devices wirelessly to its WiFi. It doesn't take much in the way of setting up and it provides a faster WiFi connection than the SKY router anyway.

I think another thing you may have overlooked is the ability to backup more than one machine. While you can just connect a harddrive to a machine and use that for time machine, I use my time capsule for making backups of three different machines. You don't have to think about it, it just does it. If my laptop has been at work, it will just run a backup next time I'm at home for example.

So in that respect, its really good for families.
I must confess I don't use Windows too much these days, but when I tried to setup something similar to Time Machine for my Father on his PC, I had to spend ages figuring out how to get it all to work, not so with the Mac.
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From what you have described you now have two distinctly separate networks which is the point I have been making. Your Sky router is acting as modem and router not as a simply gateway modem to the internet. This is the trap many consumers such as yourself are falling into. For a truly Apple solution you need your router in bridge mode and then put the Sky router settings into the TC - simply solution, really?
 
But I can't see how that's a problem? If your ISP supplied kit can't bridge then the AirPort has an option to create a wireless network and nothing more. Then you just turn off the Wi-Fi on your existing router. One network.

Ideally you'd turn the ISP thing into a pure modem, but that's not always possible.
 
Well the problem is you're basically wasting your money, as with what has been suggested you're running the TC/AE purely as an extender to the modem/router the TC is really only a fancy gigabit AirPort express. It has DHCP serving, NAT, port forwarding, IP assignment and PPPoE all turned off. In that config the Sky or whoever's router does all the DHCP work etc.

A case of the consumer misleading themselves and not being put any the wiser by Apple or anyone else.
 
Faustus said:
Well the problem is you're basically wasting your money, as with what has been suggested you're running the TC/AE purely as an extender to the modem/router the TC is really only a fancy gigabit AirPort express. It has DHCP serving, NAT, port forwarding, IP assignment and PPPoE all turned off. In that config the Sky or whoever's router does all the DHCP work etc.

A case of the consumer misleading themselves and not being put any the wiser by Apple or anyone else.
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If you re-read my post, I pointed out that the Time Capsule has a faster WiFi standard than my Sky Router does. Thus by connecting to that, I get the benefit of a quicker connection.

Further to that, you seem to have completely forgotten the fact that its a backup device which does so for all my machines. That alone is the main reason I bought the thing.

Yes it expensive, yes there are alternatives, but I liked the ease of use, look of the device and customer service if it goes wrong. I can afford to buy it, so I have no problem with that.
 
Nexus said:
If you re-read my post, I pointed out that the Time Capsule has a faster WiFi standard than my Sky Router does. Thus by connecting to that, I get the benefit of a quicker connection.

Further to that, you seem to have completely forgotten the fact that its a backup device which does so for all my machines. That alone is the main reason I bought the thing.

Yes it expensive, yes there are alternatives, but I liked the ease of use, look of the device and customer service if it goes wrong. I can afford to buy it, so I have no problem with that.
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It will only connect and use the 5GHz band if you have compatible equipment. You appear to be missing the thrust of what I am saying i.e. it's not as relevant as it should be. Most of the people who claim it's great as now their AE/TC is handling everything are in many cases labouring under a false illusion. Their existing router is still doing most of the work. That is all I am saying. Yes you can get the AE/TC to handle everything but it's not as easy as some people claim especially if you have to mess with the settings on an existing modem/router. Apple's instructions for doing this are almost non existent.
 
Faustus said:
It will only connect and use the 5GHz band if you have compatible equipment. You appear to be missing the thrust of what I am saying i.e. it's not as relevant as it should be. Most of the people who claim it's great as now their AE/TC is handling everything are in many cases labouring under a false illusion. Their existing router is still doing most of the work. That is all I am saying. Yes you can get the AE/TC to handle everything but it's not as easy as some people claim especially if you have to mess with the settings on an existing modem/router. Apple's instructions for doing this are almost non existent.
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I'm well aware the Sky router is doing all the work of managing the broadband and routing table. The Time Capsule is plugged directly into it with a network cable and its WiFi which of course then gets passed through to the Sky router to the Internet is a faster standard, which my equipment is compatible with.

I'm not looking to try and replace my Sky router with it, I'm perfectly happy with how its working.

I'm not really sure why you are arguing, its clear its just not a product for you.
 
Wow! Did a time capsule steal your lunch money or something Faustus? You seem on a mission to trash it man!
 
Pug said:
Wow! Did a time capsule steal your lunch money or something Faustus? You seem on a mission to trash it man!
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No I'm not, I'm really not. What I'm getting at is that I suspect the vast majority of users have TC/AE set up like Nexus. Most of those consumers will be thinking that this is great now the Apple product is handling everything. Nothing could be further from the truth as their old router is still doing most of the work.

Apple does little to dispell that myth and I suspect the reason for doing so is so they an claim everything works straight out of the box. For TC/AE to work as a router is much more complicated, wouldn't be an out of box solution and would be beyond the average consumer. It's a pity really as TC is capable of being so much more.
 
Faustus said:
Apple does little to dispell that myth and I suspect the reason for doing so is so they an claim everything works straight out of the box. For TC/AE to work as a router is much more complicated, wouldn't be an out of box solution and would be beyond the average consumer. It's a pity really as TC is capable of being so much more.
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Hang on, what part of it being a router doesn't work out of the box? When I had fibre installed I told this guy not to bother with the router. I unpacked my sealed TC, plug the wire from the vdsl modem into the correct port, plugged it in, ran the airport utility which a child could handle and I was up and running. Very easy.

Edit, also, all this talk of it not having a modem etc. it's a high end product generally bought by people with a high disposable income, those people will most likely not have your average ADSL instead having fibre or VM which have their own separate modems anyway which is what the TC depends upon. This number is only going to increase anyway so it's a moot point.
 
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