Is it worth me looking at a diesel?

the_r_sole · 21 Jul 2013 at 12:48

what's the price difference in service parts for a diesel?
interested in this comparison as I own both - but not really noticed servicing costs being a lot different (although the diesel is an old car and not equivalent to the petrol car)

Bear · 21 Jul 2013 at 13:22

Tom_ed1987 said:
When winter is here you will miss your heater for 12 of those 13 commute miles if you go diesel.

My diesel warms up very quickly, it blows warm air barely before I have even got a mile up the road.

[TW]Fox · 21 Jul 2013 at 13:26

Bear said:
My diesel warms up very quickly, it blows warm air barely before I have even got a mile up the road.

Because it's a Jaguar XF, so in common with many high end large executive diesels it will have a seperate auxilliary heater to provide cabin heat in advance of the engine reaching the desired temperature.

The majority of diesel cars do not have this and therefore will take longer than a petrol engine to provide cabin heat.

Clarkey · 21 Jul 2013 at 13:27

Isn't it a posh Jag though, will have an aux heater I guess.

Bear · 21 Jul 2013 at 13:37

[TW]Fox;24641999 said:
Because it's a Jaguar XF, so in common with many high end large executive diesels it will have a seperate auxilliary heater to provide cabin heat in advance of the engine reaching the desired temperature.

The majority of diesel cars do not have this and therefore will take longer than a petrol engine to provide cabin heat.

The wife drives a 1.9tdi Polo and that barely takes a mile to warm up either. Pretty much the other end of the market?

[TW]Fox · 21 Jul 2013 at 13:37

Bear said:
The wife drives a 1.9tdi Polo and that barely takes a mile to warm up either. Pretty much the other end of the market?

Is this a mile driven at 1mph or something? Even my 3 litre petrol engined car that warms up very quickly takes about 2 miles to begin to chuck out cabin heat on a cold day. I'd be amazed if a 1.9 TDI Polo only takes a mile!

JohnnyDrama · 21 Jul 2013 at 13:47

My petrol golf takes over 3 miles to fully warm up, 5 mile commutes are gonna be chilly this winter!

Bear · 21 Jul 2013 at 13:57

[TW]Fox;24642053 said:
Is this a mile driven at 1mph or something? Even my 3 litre petrol engined car that warms up very quickly takes about 2 miles to begin to chuck out cabin heat on a cold day. I'd be amazed if a 1.9 TDI Polo only takes a mile!

It may be a little bit further but not a lot as it blows out warm air before we get halfway to the supermarket and that's 4 miles away. Don't get me wrong, its not blowing full on hot air it is certainly warm though.

Clarkey · 21 Jul 2013 at 14:07

[TW]Fox;24642053 said:
Is this a mile driven at 1mph or something? Even my 3 litre petrol engined car that warms up very quickly takes about 2 miles to begin to chuck out cabin heat on a cold day. I'd be amazed if a 1.9 TDI Polo only takes a mile!

Sure you aren't stretching the truth a little there? M54 engine is largely similar/same as M52, and there's no way mine is anywhere near hot after 2 miles in the winter. I'd say 6 miles or more on a very cold morning, and yes my car has a recent thermostat.

[TW]Fox · 21 Jul 2013 at 14:08

Clarkey said:
Sure you aren't stretching the truth a little there? M54 engine is largely similar/same as M52, and there's no way mine is anywhere near hot after 2 miles in the winter. I'd say 6 miles or more on a very cold morning, and yes my car has a recent thermostat.

We are talking about heat out of the cabin vents not up to operating temperature.

My drive to work is 5 miles - I have heat for at least half of that, so no, I'm not 'stretching the truth a little'. If mine was like yours I'd never use my HVAC system (The CC won't send air out of the cabin vents at all until its warm if its cold outside)! The vents upon up and I can feel warm air at almost exactly the same point each day which is about 2 miles in.

Not sure they are 'the same' either, does yours have the electronically controlled thermostat (Not saying that would make the difference but it does show they are not identical engines).

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 21 Jul 2013 at 14:12

the_r_sole said:
what's the price difference in service parts for a diesel?
interested in this comparison as I own both - but not really noticed servicing costs being a lot different (although the diesel is an old car and not equivalent to the petrol car)

Its far less obvious now than it was 15 years ago, labour is now such a significant amount.
Obviously varies manufacturer to manufacturer, but the parts are usually a little, say <5% more (varies part to part but normally oil is more). The service interval is still normally less though for diesels thats the main point.

Clarkey · 21 Jul 2013 at 14:17

[TW]Fox;24642189 said:
We are talking about heat out of the cabin vents not up to operating temperature.

My drive to work is 5 miles - I have heat for at least half of that, so no, I'm not 'stretching the truth a little'. If mine was like yours I'd never use my HVAC system (The CC won't send air out of the cabin vents at all until its warm if its cold outside)! The vents upon up and I can feel warm air at almost exactly the same point each day which is about 2 miles in.

Not sure they are 'the same' either, does yours have the electronically controlled thermostat (Not saying that would make the difference but it does show they are not identical engines).

Didn't realise they had an electronic stat, maybe that makes a difference. I thought the only heating differences were the secondary pump. Mechanically speaking, the engines are pretty samey, lots of parts are interchangeable.
The HVAC works the same though, I get no hot air until the gauge is pretty much up in the middle, this means on a winter morning I can drive for maybe 10 minutes freezing my ass off. It's one of the most annoying foibles of this car tbh.

[TW]Fox · 21 Jul 2013 at 14:18

Yea, mine is pretty good - zero airflow until about 2 miles (Which is about 5-7 minutes) and then vents open and hot air comes out.

If I over-ride the climate control I can actually get lukewarm air a bit quicker, too. So it's presumably waiting for warm air first.

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 21 Jul 2013 at 14:22

[TW]Fox;24642237 said:
Yea, mine is pretty good - zero airflow until about 2 miles (Which is about 5-7 minutes) and then vents open and hot air comes out.

If I over-ride the climate control I can actually get lukewarm air a bit quicker, too. So it's presumably waiting for warm air first.

Thats interesting do you not find you get some steaming up issues, or do you hold your breath

Clarkey · 21 Jul 2013 at 14:27

Never had that issue myself, warmed up super humid morning air sucks at demisting windows anyway.

Yes the HVAC will not blow cold air when the target temp is much higher than actual, there are temp probes in both sides of the heater core. Tbh I think my heater valve body is a bit blocked, the heat drops off quite a bit with the engine idling for example. I might have it apart this afternoon actually, nothing better to do.

Third Opinion · 21 Jul 2013 at 17:22

Bear said:
The wife drives a 1.9tdi Polo and that barely takes a mile to warm up either. Pretty much the other end of the market?

I have a 1.9JTD and takes no more than 2 miles to get hot air in the cabin. Probably around 3 in zero degrees temperature.

Old diesels use to take an age to heat up.

Bear · 21 Jul 2013 at 18:32

Third Opinion said:
I have a 1.9JTD and takes no more than 2 miles to get hot air in the cabin. Probably around 3 in zero degrees temperature.

Old diesels use to take an age to heat up.

As diesels run at a cooler temperature which I expect is the reason they used to take so long to warm up. I can only presume that most modern diesel cars not just luxury cars use an auxiliary heater hence they don't seem to suffer from the problem these days.

the_r_sole · 22 Jul 2013 at 09:36

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Its far less obvious now than it was 15 years ago, labour is now such a significant amount.
Obviously varies manufacturer to manufacturer, but the parts are usually a little, say <5% more (varies part to part but normally oil is more). The service interval is still normally less though for diesels thats the main point.

ahh right, I tend to do extra fluid/filter changes anyway so would probably just be the same for either for me then!

Third Opinion · 22 Jul 2013 at 10:12

Bear said:
As diesels run at a cooler temperature which I expect is the reason they used to take so long to warm up. I can only presume that most modern diesel cars not just luxury cars use an auxiliary heater hence they don't seem to suffer from the problem these days.

Could be I am not sure.

I wonder if it is because the cooling systems don't take nearly as much coolant nowadays. I remember when they use to take gallons to fill up, now it is just a 4 or 5 litres.

I know this is going to be extremely unpopular view, but I don't think I would trade my diesel for anything else (taking cost into account) for my daily commute.

Saying that I am also pleased to have a petrol for more fun driving.

Spartacus · 22 Jul 2013 at 10:44

My diesel E90 takes about a couple of minutes for warm air to start coming through the vents during winter, although I believe it has some sort of heating element to help the climate control warm up the cabin until the engine gets up to temperature. You'll find a lot of modern diesel cars dont take a long time for the heater to work.