A slightly less vague Spec Me

[Skeeter]

£10k over 2 years is going to be ~£500 a month, which is £200 a month over my budget. Add onto that the fact a second hand 'proper' car has MOT and Tax costs, plus more insurance, and it becomes very expensive. Loans under £7k usually have much higher interest rates too, so the 3rd year + loan wouldn't be that cheap.

The lack of capital scuppers the short term purchase idea unfortunately. Long term purchase would work, but then when looking at cars under 2 years old that I can get for £10k which would mean I could keep it for 5 years my choices are.... diesel hatchbacks

I know its an unpopular path, but when you look at some of the lease options where you get all the toys and spec, free tax, no MOTs and a full warranty for ~£300 a month you can see why its a popular choice. For context, my lease car short list isn't exactly pap, its just pap engines. Currently got test drives in a V40 R Design, Mercedes A180 Sport, and an Alfa Giulietta Lusso.

Are there cars like the above available second hand?

 

[rossk26]

Ive never considered borrowing for a car before so i dont know how i would structure that, but if you dont have the capital would you not simply borrow the £10k over say 2 years, then get another loan at year 2 to bridge the £3k gap, pay that back over 2 years (or whatever). The first 2 years payments will be higher, but then years 3 & 4 and on will be very small indeed?

Surely that is going to be much much worse.

The longer you own the car, the less damage depreciation has on you. FACT.

Changing a car every 2 years doesn't seem sensible at all. Take the £10k loan out Skeeter, in 5 years time you'll have a car worth ~£3k to put towards your next purchase (trade in if it's easier). Then all you need is a £7k loan (If it even is that much).

You could even put aside the profit you are making on the car allowance, and come year 5, you could have built enough capital to buy a £10k car outright...

 

[Skeeter]

Surely that is going to be much much worse.

The longer you own the car, the less damage depreciation has on you. FACT.

Changing a car every 2 years doesn't seem sensible at all. Take the £10k loan out Skeeter, in 5 years time you'll have a car worth ~£3k to put towards your next purchase (trade in if it's easier). Then all you need is a £7k loan (If it even is that much).

You could even put aside the profit you are making on the car allowance, and come year 5, you could have built enough capital to buy a £10k car outright...

This is what I was thinking. But like I said, 2011/2012 cars with decent spec that I can get for £10k are... diesel hatchbacks or high mileage petrols. Given the choice I'd rather the diesels, but speccing a second hand diesel hatchback appears to be OcUK's kryptonite

 

[rossk26]

I know its an unpopular path, but when you look at some of the lease options where you get all the toys and spec, free tax, no MOTs and a full warranty for ~£300 a month you can see why its a popular choice. For context, my lease car short list isn't exactly pap, its just pap engines. Currently got test drives in a V40 R Design, Mercedes A180 Sport, and an Alfa Giulietta Lusso.

Are there cars like the above available second hand?

But it's not ~£300 a month. If you include the admin fee, deposit and everything else they don't show you. Then you are looking closer to an overall sum of ~£450 per month.

Where have you found an Alfa Guiletta Lusso for £300pm? I mean seriously...

Ok I found an Alfa Guilietta Lusso for £298 per month, which will allow your 20k pa milleage. But there is a £1,800 deposit. Bear in mind the term is 48 months. So total cost is £16k. So you're happy to pay an extra £6k so you can have 'some' toys, and no MOT or Tax payments...

Just LOL

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I have a Mini Cooper and a Clio 172. I'm not looking for anything fun to drive.

My work car has to sooth away the commute, so I'm looking for climate control, cruise control, bluetooth, comfortable supportive seats, leather, etc. I'm not willing to scrap some or all of those just to get a more enjoyable drive, that's what the other 2 cars are for.

And thats my point, I really think your going to struggle to achieve all that with the conditions you have against you on age etc.
At 3-4 years old a lot of those extras will still be demanding a fair premium.

Climate well you stand a pretty good chance of at least AC, having to twiddle a few settings occasionally really a big issue?

Cruise, virtually always an option. So your quite likely to be looking at an ex company car. I have never met anyone who has specced cruise on their own car.

Bluetooth, again quite an option cost on most manufacturers. You can get aparrott or something if desprate, or again highly likely on ex company cars.

Comfortable supportive seats, forget BMs then unless someone specced better seats. For "supportive" you tend to look at more sporty orientated typically or higher spec, like Ghia X. Again pushing the price of the original car up from base models

Leather, whilst nice I don't get the fuss. Its really not all that now, some fabrics are really nice, dont give you a sweaty crack and make your suits shiny. IMO half leather is the one to have with a good quality cloth middle and leather supports. Again most motors this is a fairly expensive option, those that have it as standard are way above the point you are going to be looking at probably even at 5 years old.

If there were that many cars at that price point with those options everyone would want one.

I fear that unless you go silly old compared to your 6 year deadline your going to have to get a really poor example.

The best way I found to sooth away the commute was to drive a fun car, I came from almost exactly the spec your defining, yet because I am driving a car that gives me more pleasure I just dont notice the lack of bluetooth etc.

I'm not saying your not going to get what your after I am just saying that your going to struggle to achieve within your allowance, thats quite a list of requirements you have, along with some fairly rigid conditions on the allowance. Going older will definately open up your options, but it will also increase your risk, when you start talking 60k+ 4-5 year old motors you start to run the risk on Turbos etc, big repairs there.

Im interested to see what you end up with now as I am really struggling to see how your going to meet your list. Good luck

 

[Skeeter]

Where have you found an Alfa Guiletta Lusso for £300pm? I mean seriously...

(Sorry for the Lings Cars links, my eyes hurt already)

http://www.lingscars.com/Alfa_Romeo...sso_Hatchback_5dr_1598cc-personal.html#models

http://www.lingscars.com/Alfa_Romeo...sso_Hatchback_5dr_1368cc-personal.html#models

 

[Skeeter]

<snip>

I thought the same, but there are some epic standard specs out there. I drove the V40 at the weekend and in R Design it has Bluetooth, DAB, Dual zone Climate and leather as standard, and Cruise is a £200 option. The A Class Sport gets half leather, Bluetooth and cruise as standard, with Climate being a cheap option. I've not looked into the Alfa specs much, it was the engine that drew me to that. I've not found anything under 2 years old for £10k that comes close without having very high mileage.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I thought the same, but there are some epic standard specs out there. I drove the V40 at the weekend and in R Design it has Bluetooth, DAB, Dual zone Climate and leather as standard, and Cruise is a £200 option. The A Class Sport gets half leather, Bluetooth and cruise as standard, with Climate being a cheap option. I've not looked into the Alfa specs much, it was the engine that drew me to that. I've not found anything under 2 years old for £10k that comes close without having very high mileage.

Can you link a V40 with that spec at the sort of money you were talking?

 

[Skeeter]

Lings Cars again, although the quote from Volvo is actually better than what Lings can produce.

http://www.lingscars.com/Volvo/V40/...2WD_Hatchback_5dr_1560cc-personal.html#models

Volvo will do a 10k lease for nearer £260.

 

[Jez]

Surely that is going to be much much worse.

The longer you own the car, the less damage depreciation has on you. FACT.

Changing a car every 2 years doesn't seem sensible at all. Take the £10k loan out Skeeter, in 5 years time you'll have a car worth ~£3k to put towards your next purchase (trade in if it's easier). Then all you need is a £7k loan (If it even is that much).

You could even put aside the profit you are making on the car allowance, and come year 5, you could have built enough capital to buy a £10k car outright...

Where this falls down is that you cannot get a non crap car which will last him for 5 years, for only £10k. The maximum lifespan we can find is around 2 years.

He's kinda stuck really, hence the lease ideas floating around

 

[Skeeter]

Where this falls down is that you cannot get a non crap car which will last him for 5 years, for only £10k. The maximum lifespan we can find is around 2 years.

He's kinda stuck really, hence the lease ideas floating around

Just had a conversation with one of the directors and he basically confirmed that this is what the rules are designed to do. They don't wan't people running 6 year old cars. When the rules were written the company was very 'image' focused.

I've hit that exact problem. Anything £10k and 2 years old is not as good as what I can get on a lease for similar monthly payments. And what I can get second is high mileage petrol's that while good, carry much higher running costs.

If I had £10k I wouldn't even entertain the idea of a lease, but as I don't my hand is forced somewhat.

Its a releif that I have the Clio and the Mini as other cars. If I was being forced down this route as an only car it would be a different story. As it is I am perfectly happy to take a meh engine and make up for it in toys and spec. Its just a shame there isn't a lot of well specced diesels for £10k about, presumably because the type of car they are (like V40s and A Classes) are £20k+ new.

 

[Jez]

Back to the lease, as much as i wouldnt want one, the A-Class is actually rather good now. I guess there are no leases with 2000cc or larger engines in budget? that would be the sweet spot.

 

[Skeeter]

Not that I can find. There are a few 2l diesels, but then theres no point in getting those over a 1.6 as the smaller engine earns the same fuel expense, but runs a better MPG.

The odd ball is the 1.4 Alfa at 160bhp, but there is a lower sub 1400cc fuel band I've not even entertained as is so poor. Its something like 12p for Petrol, which makes the Alfa a poor choice.

Edit: Ah, crap. The lower limit for diesels is 1.6 not 1.4, meaning both the Volvo and the A Class will only get 13p a mile. Maybe a 2l diesel is an option? Also brings the Alfa back in play...

Diesel up to1600cc – 13p
Diesel 1601 to 2000cc – 15p
Diesel over 2000cc – 19p

Petrol up to1400cc – 15p
Petrol 1401 to 2000cc – 18p
Petrol over 2000cc – 26p

 

[OllyM]

Have you seen this?

http://www.silverstonefleetmanageme...ss-e220-cdi-blueefficiency-avantgarde-manual/

A bit over budget, especially if you up the mileage to 20k a year but it's a 2.2 so will qualify for 19p a mile...

 

[rodenal]

On a 9+23/35 profile he'd need to put circa £3k+ down on that, which is a horrific upfront payment on something you'll never own!

All that's happening is they're dressing up the extra monthly payments by adding an extra 6 months at the front end

 

[Skeeter]

Yeah I did spot that, but worth getting a 3+ quote from them if they do them.

It will be interesting to see what the Merc dealer has in terms of finance, and if it can get anywhere near the offers available online.

 

[rossk26]

I've hit that exact problem. Anything £10k and 2 years old is not as good as what I can get on a lease for similar monthly payments. And what I can get second is high mileage petrol's that while good, carry much higher running costs.

Lies.

You are looking at a pretty bold coloured figure of only £289.99 per month lease on a brand new Alfa Romeo Gulietta. When if you actually sit down and work your finances out on the whole cost and ownership of the vehicle. You are forking out thousands more.

You are hardly buying the car of the century, the Volvo is dull, the Alfa is basic, and the Merc is the bottom of the barrel in it's range.

These cars are all going to cost you £16k over 3 years. Why not buy a £16k 1/2 year old car then? It will beat those 3 cars you want in an instant, yet cost you exactly the same over the same time period.

You do realise second hand cars still have warranties? And still don't need an MOT until year 3, and tax is pittance?

 

[rodenal]

These cars are all going to cost you £16k over 3 years. Why not buy a £16k 1/2 year old car then? It will beat those 3 cars you want in an instant, yet cost you exactly the same over the same time period.

Whilst I understand what you're getting at here, on one hand you are pulling up the OP for unrealistic figures then dishing more out with another.

It is entirely possible that a £16k car could work out the same cost or cheaper overall once it's moved on and any capital that's tied up in it has been released again....but even then you're not really in any better a position, especially if it's used over 5 years and 100k+.

The realistic, month to month cost would be higher with the differnce being counterbalanced at resale. I can see why the OP would not want this for what is a work tool.

Ongoing incidentals i.e insurance, tax, fuel are irrelevant as these expenses will be incurred regardless of purchase method.

Personally I'd buy something reasonable for around £10k and move it on after two years, there are plenty of options. Next best would be a PCP for me, absolute last ditch choice would be a 3 year lease unless I absolutely could not get the equivalent deal through other means. It's easy to forget how tied in you are to a lease. You never know how stable your job really is, being commited to 3 years of £300+ payments per month with no realistic get out is the last thing I would want.

 

[Skeeter]

I dont understand where all these 'extra' fees are coming from? I see a document fee of up to £200 and.... that's it?

The small diesels are tax free, and they are also really cheap to insure. The lease/PCP payments all include VAT, and I'm well aware of the first month payment being 3x as much. Unless there is some other massive charges in the small print I have missed I'm not sure your you think a £300 a month lease is actually £450? Thats £5400 worth of 'extra stuff'? What is it?

And a £16k loan over 3 years is ~£550 a month, almost double my budget...

I'm pretty sure you could produce a valid argument, but throwing base spec 3 year old BMWs and 75,000 mile Skodas about while telling me I should spend £550 a month on something 'proper' because you hate diesels isn't really helping.

Personally I'd buy something reasonable for around £10k and move it on after two years, there are plenty of options. Next best would be a PCP for me, absolute last ditch choice would be a 3 year lease unless I absolutely could not get the equivalent deal through other means. It's easy to forget how tied in you are to a lease. You never know how stable your job really is, being commited to 3 years of £300+ payments per month with no realistic get out is the last thing I would want.

This is my preference too, but the first option requires £10k, which I don't have. The 2nd option requires around £3k at least, which I again don't have, so I'm pretty much forced into option 3. Option 1 would work if there was a good 2 year old car choice for £10k, but there isn't really.

Job security affects all options really. If I get a loan, finance a car, or lease one, I'm still going to be stuck with monthly payments for 3, 4 or 5 years regardless.

 

[rossk26]

And a £16k loan over 3 years is ~£550 a month, almost double my budget...

Why are you looking at a £16k loan over 3 years? All the PCP deals have been 48 month deals.

It's in black and white that the total finance of the PCP deal is £16k. So over 48 months you will have paid £16,000.

A £10k loan over 48 months is £230.22pm
An Alfa Romeo Guilietta on PCP over 48 months is ~£330pm

So you are paying an extra £100 a month so you avoid MOT's (1 of them), avoid Tax (£8 per month), and have a warranty? (used car will still come with manufacturers warranty).

You can get a Focus Titanium, which probably has more toys than anything your looking at on PCP.

Bonkers.