If the car is worth £2000 more than the settlement (GFV), then there's no reason why the dealer wouldn't give you a cheque for £2000. It happens all the time.
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A slightly less vague Spec Me
- Thread starter Skeeter
- Start date
If the car is worth £2000 more than the settlement (GFV), then there's no reason why the dealer wouldn't give you a cheque for £2000. It happens all the time.
This is why a PCP is preferable over a lease. If the cars worth significantly less than the GFV, phew. If its worth the same, no difference, and if its worth significantly more, buy it and sell it on and take the profit.
If you buy the car at the GFV from a PCP does that mean you are not penalized for going over the allowed mileage?
If you buy the car at the GFV from a PCP does that mean you are not penalized for going over the allowed mileage?
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
If the dealer wants to purchase the car, sure. But then thats no different to me giving your finance company your GFV and you £2k and driving off in your car. It's not part of the PCP, it's... buying a car.
Otherwise there is every reason why the dealer won't do this - the PCP doesn't include the option to get a cash rebate when handing the car back and walking off.
Correct, dangerous game to play though, especially if its significantly over the mileage as its true value will have taken a hit and you could end up right back in negative equity
Well there is, they want to sell it for a profit and also get you into a new PCP if they can.
If the options they present to you are 'hand back for nothing' vs 'get a new PCP and £2000 off' vs 'go sell it yourself' then people will be more inclined to get into the new PCP. If not, the dealer has a nice cheap car having taken it in at the GFV rather than the actual value or a big lump of easy cash from you buying at GFV to sell it.
It would make little sense for them to offer you the going market rate for the car when they have the tools at their disposal to encourage you into giving them easier money.
But you always have the option of going to any dealer an PX'ing it against another car. The form of finance makes no difference, you are settling the outstanding balance, be it the GFV or any other number during the term of the agreement, its no different in that sense. If the car is worth x amount more than the settlement figure that get, typically, used as the deposit against the next vehicle however you want to finance that, be it PCP, HP, Lease, personal loan.
The finance company don't give a stuff what you do with the car as long as whatever the outstanding balance is cleared, by you, the dealer, some other person who buys it, an insurance company etc etc...
The finance company don't give a stuff what you do with the car as long as whatever the outstanding balance is cleared, by you, the dealer, some other person who buys it, an insurance company etc etc...
There's a bit of cart before the horse situaton, in that you can't trade the car in elsewhere until you own it so you might have to find £x,000 for a few days. But effectively that is an option with a PCP that isn't there with a lease.
No that is completely wrong, you can trade the car in where ever you like the dealer will clear the finance for you and at that point they become the owner. I've done this a number of times and you don't have to pay for the car upfront before PX'ing it. It no different to any other finance agreement on a car.
As above, any dealer can clear the balance. The main issue with trading the car in is you are unlikely to get the best amount for the car by doing so - to maximise your own return you'd want to get permission to sell (I had no problem doing this with the civic) or clear off the balance yourself then repay the loan / stick the funds back in the bank once it sells.
In saying that I got more as a px than the best private sale offer I had in circa 4 months on the civic - but my gut feel is that the majority of people who buy 5 year old, run of the mill diesel motor probably go to a trader of some sort. I'm also sure I could have got more (not significantly, a few hundred quid) by holding on for a private sale.
Ah ok, cheers guys.
My question about the mileage is that it may be better to trade in or sell the car than hand it back and pay a fee. Say the GFV is £5k and the car will trade in at £5k, but you've gone over the mileage and will get a £1k fee. If you hand the car back you need to pay the fee, but if you PX it then you can just hand them the GFV in £'s and avoid the fee?
Basically, my best estimates are coming out at 'around' 15k miles a year. I've worked out that with a lease I can usually get to about 17k a year before the fees are more than just paying for a 20k lease. PCP is obviously harder to predict as you have to have the GFV and then also estimate the value of the car with a few more miles on it than you expect, which is guess work at best.
My question about the mileage is that it may be better to trade in or sell the car than hand it back and pay a fee. Say the GFV is £5k and the car will trade in at £5k, but you've gone over the mileage and will get a £1k fee. If you hand the car back you need to pay the fee, but if you PX it then you can just hand them the GFV in £'s and avoid the fee?
Basically, my best estimates are coming out at 'around' 15k miles a year. I've worked out that with a lease I can usually get to about 17k a year before the fees are more than just paying for a 20k lease. PCP is obviously harder to predict as you have to have the GFV and then also estimate the value of the car with a few more miles on it than you expect, which is guess work at best.
If you want to keep it you pay the settlement, if you want to PX it you pay the settlement, the only time you pay any fee is if you hand it back and walk away, which is quite an unlikely position unless the car is worth less than the GFV at the end, which these days is pretty unlikely given how conservative the finance houses are being at the moment.
Ok, I thought I would write this up a bit for the few people who were interested or might be in a similar position. I've spent the day test driving and getting PCP quotes and other things. So, in the order I drove them:
Volvo V40 R-Design D2
I was expecting average build quality, but I was very impressed with it. The R Design comes with the leather trim as standard and its a very nice place to be. The seats are fantastic and supportive. The dash is well trimmed and the steering wheel is chunky and really nice to hold with perforated leather.
The engine is... there. It has very linear power delivery and did a good job of pulling around what feels like a big car. There was absolutely nothing remarkable about it, but nothing wrong with it either. It was pretty anonymous, which is about all I can expect from ~110 bhp diesels.
Finance is on the dear side though. Cruise Control and Parking Sensors are paid options, as is the Rebel Blue paint. Adding the lot makes a 3 year/15k mile PCP ~£370, and that is with nearly £3,000 deposit from my own pocket. I've not explored any deals yet.
Mercedes A-Class A180 CDI AMG Sport
They didn't have a Sport trim available, so I had to look at the AMG Sport which adds different leather (although to the same style seats) and an aggressive body kit on to the Sport spec. I must say I really like the styling. The AMG Sport kit looks great, expecially with some of the option wheels, but they are trinkets I don't need so I tried to ignore them. The Blue paint they do is also brilliant, but £700.
The interiour was nicely trimmed. Half leather supporting sports seats and a nicely laid out dash. The controls all feel very solid and it was, in the most part, a nice place to be. There were however a few 'awkwardnesses' about it. The extreme rake of the windscreen meant the top of it was very close to my forehead. It did feel like if I went over a bump if mash my forehead against the sun visor. The steering wheel also didn't raise up enough for me to comfortably get my long legs (I'm 6'4") under the wheel, so operating the clutch meant I hit my thigh against my hand. Having the seat quite far back also meant that looking left resulted in a nice interior view of the B pillar, rather than a view out the window.
Overall, it was a nice, but mildly claustrophobic place to be. The demo car I drove also had a sunroof, and I think without one it would have been much worse. That said, if you are under 6' tall none of the above would be an issue.
The engine, like the Volvo, was non-descript. It has slightly more turbo lag meaning there was a larger lump of power that arrived as you accelerated, but other than that, pretty much a muchness to the Volvo.
PCP on an A180 AMG Sport was ~£350, and on a Sport was ~£335, again 3 years and 15k. But, on top of the standard fees, they also wanted £615 for delivery, and were quoting 4 months for a car to be delivered. Unless of course I wanted to pay new price for an ex-demo car and I could have it in 7 days
. He did keep banging on about how these prices were "before any deals", so there may be a few quid to be saved.
Ford Focus Titanium 1.6 Petrol
They didn't have any 1.6 diesels around to demo, but are trying to source one for me to drive later in the week. I went into this with Jez's words in my head expecting the Focus to be cheap plastic crap car hell. It wasn't.
It was cheap, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't offensive in any way. Its quite clearly in a different league to the much better built Mercedes and Volvo, but its not so bad I couldn't live with it. The dash was average, the seats were average, but the driving position was great. Coming from the slightly odd Mercedes the Focus was a much more comfortable place to be, if not as nicely trimmed. The spec also helps it along as the Titanium comes with a lot.
Having spoken to the dealer and looked at a few cars I would want the Titanum X model, mainly because the half leather would help offset to otherwise lower quality interior.
The petrol engine was, naff. It didn't have the pull of the diesels and just felt a bit strained. I felt like I wanted more power to make just normal progress. I've no idea if the diesel will be better, I will have to try it to find out. The 1.6 Ford diesel does produce more CO2 than the Mercedes and Volvo (which are both sub 100g/km), and the MPG figures are worse, so it seems Ford are behind them in both quality and engine technology.
But, its OK I said to myself, the Ford will be cheap to counter act this. Not so. PCP on the same 3 years/15k is £343 on a Titanum X 1.6 Diesel, and thats with the only option being Metalic paint. I presume its because you have to pay for the huge depreciation. The GFV is only just over £7k
. But, what this does mean, is that 2 year old second hand cards for £11k are an option. So the Focus isn't out of the picture, yet.
Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1.6 Diesel (140PS) Lusso
What a waste of time. After getting past the limp handshake and complete non interest of the dealer, the car was rubbish. It feels like a car from 10 years ago. The steering wheel is one massive lump of cheap plastic, the dash looks terrible, the switches and toggles feel nasty. I tried to adjust the wing mirrors and it took 3 attempts for the button to work. The digital display is a single colour orange thing that looks rather 90's.
The seats were also no better than the Ford, and the leather in the Veloce trim was nice, but not enough to cover up what was a drab interior. Boot space was massive though.
The engine on the other hand was brilliant (being relative). It was significantly more powerful than anything else I drive and had an urgency about it that didn't feel like a diesel. Acceleration meant you might just be able to have some fun with it, until you noticed the interior again.
Finance wise a Lusso (with the 105PS engine, not the one I drive) was £348 while a Veloce, once you had added back in the stuff that gets randomly removed when you go up to this trim and also with the 105PS engine, was £374.
I won't be getting an Alfa.
Nissan Juke Tekna 1.5 Diesel
This was a surprise. It was quite nice. I do actually like the styling, although from a few angles it looks a bit odd. I was expecting it to be small and cramped inside, but it wasn't. However rear seat space was poor, but we don't have kids or friends
so its not so much of an issue. The driving position didn't feel that high, and the seats were very comfortable. The reason I looked at the Juke is its cheapness means I could look at the top spec, the Tekna. It has everything. Electric everything, Sat Nav, rear parking camera, auto wipers, auto lights, cruise control, dual zone climate, the Google maps app thing, the lot.
The interior was OK. Well above the Alfa, and a step up from the Ford. Not close to the Mercedes or Volvo, but then I didn't expect it to be. It was nice to drive and comfortable to sit in, until the road got bumpy and then it showed up as being quite firmly sprung. I drove a lot of the same roads in all the cars and there were bumps I only noticed in the Juke. It wasn't harsh, but it wasn't as smooth as the others.
Something else about the interior was that that car was 3 months/5,000 miles old, yet looked 'used'. The dash had some scuffs, and the cloth trim inserts in red in the door were visibly a bit grubby. They seem to have put shiny plastics where your most likely to scuff them, and abrasive cloth trims where your most likely to rub grime into them. Minor design issues, but poor ones.
The colour choice is also dire. White, Black, Grey, or Red. and the interior trim is red or silver. You can stick bright orange bits on if you want, but I don't think that would fly with the boss
.
The engine was as powerful as the Volvo and Mercedes and similar in its power delivery too, but it was a little less refined. It sounded more 'like a diesel', but nothing major. Had I not driven the other cars the same day I wouldn't have noticed.
Finally, the price, which is the only real reason I went to Nissan. The Juke Tekna, brand new and delivered for 1st September with all the kit, the new Sat Nav system and on a 3 year/15k PCP was £318. £329 if you included 3 years servicing. Its cheap.
Kia Cee'd
Dealers fail. One never got back to me, the second one did, but only to tell me he wasn't about for a week and his boss was to busy to see me. I'm trying a 3rd dealer tomorrow to see if I can get a drive.
So, from the above my short list has shrunk, but my choice hasn't got any easier. The Mercedes and the Alfa are out. The Merc just had some niggles that would annoy me if I spent 15k a year in it, and the Alfa was just crap. The Juke is in, based on the epic spec you can get for the money. The Focus is in but only as a second hand purchase, the PCP on new is just no good. I will have to check AT etc to see what I can find. The Cee'd is an unknown I don't think I can ignore, so I will try and get into that, and the Volvo is currently my favourite.
The Volvo was by far the nicest place to be and the nicest car to drive. The seats were the perfect balance of supportive yet comfortable, and the interior was right up there and well above what I was expecting. I am going to see what deals can be had, but what I don't want to do is start de-speccing the car just to get one. When you look at the likes of the Juke, I don't think its worth loosing parking sensors and cruise control and not getting any Sat Nav just to get into the Volvo.
So, more thinking and bargaining to do I feel.
Volvo V40 R-Design D2
I was expecting average build quality, but I was very impressed with it. The R Design comes with the leather trim as standard and its a very nice place to be. The seats are fantastic and supportive. The dash is well trimmed and the steering wheel is chunky and really nice to hold with perforated leather.
The engine is... there. It has very linear power delivery and did a good job of pulling around what feels like a big car. There was absolutely nothing remarkable about it, but nothing wrong with it either. It was pretty anonymous, which is about all I can expect from ~110 bhp diesels.
Finance is on the dear side though. Cruise Control and Parking Sensors are paid options, as is the Rebel Blue paint. Adding the lot makes a 3 year/15k mile PCP ~£370, and that is with nearly £3,000 deposit from my own pocket. I've not explored any deals yet.
Mercedes A-Class A180 CDI AMG Sport
They didn't have a Sport trim available, so I had to look at the AMG Sport which adds different leather (although to the same style seats) and an aggressive body kit on to the Sport spec. I must say I really like the styling. The AMG Sport kit looks great, expecially with some of the option wheels, but they are trinkets I don't need so I tried to ignore them. The Blue paint they do is also brilliant, but £700.
The interiour was nicely trimmed. Half leather supporting sports seats and a nicely laid out dash. The controls all feel very solid and it was, in the most part, a nice place to be. There were however a few 'awkwardnesses' about it. The extreme rake of the windscreen meant the top of it was very close to my forehead. It did feel like if I went over a bump if mash my forehead against the sun visor. The steering wheel also didn't raise up enough for me to comfortably get my long legs (I'm 6'4") under the wheel, so operating the clutch meant I hit my thigh against my hand. Having the seat quite far back also meant that looking left resulted in a nice interior view of the B pillar, rather than a view out the window.
Overall, it was a nice, but mildly claustrophobic place to be. The demo car I drove also had a sunroof, and I think without one it would have been much worse. That said, if you are under 6' tall none of the above would be an issue.
The engine, like the Volvo, was non-descript. It has slightly more turbo lag meaning there was a larger lump of power that arrived as you accelerated, but other than that, pretty much a muchness to the Volvo.
PCP on an A180 AMG Sport was ~£350, and on a Sport was ~£335, again 3 years and 15k. But, on top of the standard fees, they also wanted £615 for delivery, and were quoting 4 months for a car to be delivered. Unless of course I wanted to pay new price for an ex-demo car and I could have it in 7 days
. He did keep banging on about how these prices were "before any deals", so there may be a few quid to be saved.Ford Focus Titanium 1.6 Petrol
They didn't have any 1.6 diesels around to demo, but are trying to source one for me to drive later in the week. I went into this with Jez's words in my head expecting the Focus to be cheap plastic crap car hell. It wasn't.
It was cheap, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't offensive in any way. Its quite clearly in a different league to the much better built Mercedes and Volvo, but its not so bad I couldn't live with it. The dash was average, the seats were average, but the driving position was great. Coming from the slightly odd Mercedes the Focus was a much more comfortable place to be, if not as nicely trimmed. The spec also helps it along as the Titanium comes with a lot.
Having spoken to the dealer and looked at a few cars I would want the Titanum X model, mainly because the half leather would help offset to otherwise lower quality interior.
The petrol engine was, naff. It didn't have the pull of the diesels and just felt a bit strained. I felt like I wanted more power to make just normal progress. I've no idea if the diesel will be better, I will have to try it to find out. The 1.6 Ford diesel does produce more CO2 than the Mercedes and Volvo (which are both sub 100g/km), and the MPG figures are worse, so it seems Ford are behind them in both quality and engine technology.
But, its OK I said to myself, the Ford will be cheap to counter act this. Not so. PCP on the same 3 years/15k is £343 on a Titanum X 1.6 Diesel, and thats with the only option being Metalic paint. I presume its because you have to pay for the huge depreciation. The GFV is only just over £7k
. But, what this does mean, is that 2 year old second hand cards for £11k are an option. So the Focus isn't out of the picture, yet.Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1.6 Diesel (140PS) Lusso
What a waste of time. After getting past the limp handshake and complete non interest of the dealer, the car was rubbish. It feels like a car from 10 years ago. The steering wheel is one massive lump of cheap plastic, the dash looks terrible, the switches and toggles feel nasty. I tried to adjust the wing mirrors and it took 3 attempts for the button to work. The digital display is a single colour orange thing that looks rather 90's.
The seats were also no better than the Ford, and the leather in the Veloce trim was nice, but not enough to cover up what was a drab interior. Boot space was massive though.
The engine on the other hand was brilliant (being relative). It was significantly more powerful than anything else I drive and had an urgency about it that didn't feel like a diesel. Acceleration meant you might just be able to have some fun with it, until you noticed the interior again.
Finance wise a Lusso (with the 105PS engine, not the one I drive) was £348 while a Veloce, once you had added back in the stuff that gets randomly removed when you go up to this trim and also with the 105PS engine, was £374.
I won't be getting an Alfa.
Nissan Juke Tekna 1.5 Diesel
This was a surprise. It was quite nice. I do actually like the styling, although from a few angles it looks a bit odd. I was expecting it to be small and cramped inside, but it wasn't. However rear seat space was poor, but we don't have kids or friends
so its not so much of an issue. The driving position didn't feel that high, and the seats were very comfortable. The reason I looked at the Juke is its cheapness means I could look at the top spec, the Tekna. It has everything. Electric everything, Sat Nav, rear parking camera, auto wipers, auto lights, cruise control, dual zone climate, the Google maps app thing, the lot. The interior was OK. Well above the Alfa, and a step up from the Ford. Not close to the Mercedes or Volvo, but then I didn't expect it to be. It was nice to drive and comfortable to sit in, until the road got bumpy and then it showed up as being quite firmly sprung. I drove a lot of the same roads in all the cars and there were bumps I only noticed in the Juke. It wasn't harsh, but it wasn't as smooth as the others.
Something else about the interior was that that car was 3 months/5,000 miles old, yet looked 'used'. The dash had some scuffs, and the cloth trim inserts in red in the door were visibly a bit grubby. They seem to have put shiny plastics where your most likely to scuff them, and abrasive cloth trims where your most likely to rub grime into them. Minor design issues, but poor ones.
The colour choice is also dire. White, Black, Grey, or Red. and the interior trim is red or silver. You can stick bright orange bits on if you want, but I don't think that would fly with the boss
.The engine was as powerful as the Volvo and Mercedes and similar in its power delivery too, but it was a little less refined. It sounded more 'like a diesel', but nothing major. Had I not driven the other cars the same day I wouldn't have noticed.
Finally, the price, which is the only real reason I went to Nissan. The Juke Tekna, brand new and delivered for 1st September with all the kit, the new Sat Nav system and on a 3 year/15k PCP was £318. £329 if you included 3 years servicing. Its cheap.
Kia Cee'd
Dealers fail. One never got back to me, the second one did, but only to tell me he wasn't about for a week and his boss was to busy to see me. I'm trying a 3rd dealer tomorrow to see if I can get a drive.
So, from the above my short list has shrunk, but my choice hasn't got any easier. The Mercedes and the Alfa are out. The Merc just had some niggles that would annoy me if I spent 15k a year in it, and the Alfa was just crap. The Juke is in, based on the epic spec you can get for the money. The Focus is in but only as a second hand purchase, the PCP on new is just no good. I will have to check AT etc to see what I can find. The Cee'd is an unknown I don't think I can ignore, so I will try and get into that, and the Volvo is currently my favourite.
The Volvo was by far the nicest place to be and the nicest car to drive. The seats were the perfect balance of supportive yet comfortable, and the interior was right up there and well above what I was expecting. I am going to see what deals can be had, but what I don't want to do is start de-speccing the car just to get one. When you look at the likes of the Juke, I don't think its worth loosing parking sensors and cruise control and not getting any Sat Nav just to get into the Volvo.
So, more thinking and bargaining to do I feel.
Tbh I would happily give up nav and parking sensors ( its a hatchback anyway) but not cruise to have the ovlov. Have a serious dislike for the juke
From the above I think you'll be disappointed with the ceed interior. Its a bit better than the ford but not really up there with the rest
From the above I think you'll be disappointed with the ceed interior. Its a bit better than the ford but not really up there with the rest
Good shout on the Volvo. I've been driving a V40 T4 for the past couple of days, and they drive well - smooth and soak up rough roads very easily and quietly. I wasn't sold on the dash though - lots of buttons and an odd layout that looks like it was designed under the guiding principle of "Don't do anything that's already been done". Some of the instruments and navigation are just plain odd!
Arctic aircon though - stronger than any car I've recently been in.
Arctic aircon though - stronger than any car I've recently been in.
All the above are just the first cut finance deals available from the dealer with no haggling. I wanted to ensure they were comparable across the cars. A couple (the Juke and Alfa) do already include a dealer contribution to the deposit.
Tried a 3rd Kia dealer today to get in a Cee'd and their suggestion was to 'just turn up and try my luck' as they were booked for test drives so couldn't guarantee to fit me in. I'm not driving 45 minutes to them to not get a test drive. I think Kia have had it tbh, if I can't get in one today I'm not free until next weekend.
I've started looking at Drive the Deal. Is there any way you can find out which company their example quotes are from? The Volvo is still expensive though. The payment are coming out similar but with a lower deposit. Dropping parking sensors and the Rebel Blue paint gets payments down to £334 with a £2k deposit, but that means its significantly lower specced than the Juke or even the Ford.
As for the Ford, £13k gets a 2 year old Titanium X which will be about £330 a month from a bank loan and at the end I own it. But how much is a 5 year old Focus with 80k miles actually going to be worth?
Tried a 3rd Kia dealer today to get in a Cee'd and their suggestion was to 'just turn up and try my luck' as they were booked for test drives so couldn't guarantee to fit me in. I'm not driving 45 minutes to them to not get a test drive. I think Kia have had it tbh, if I can't get in one today I'm not free until next weekend.
I've started looking at Drive the Deal. Is there any way you can find out which company their example quotes are from? The Volvo is still expensive though. The payment are coming out similar but with a lower deposit. Dropping parking sensors and the Rebel Blue paint gets payments down to £334 with a £2k deposit, but that means its significantly lower specced than the Juke or even the Ford.
As for the Ford, £13k gets a 2 year old Titanium X which will be about £330 a month from a bank loan and at the end I own it. But how much is a 5 year old Focus with 80k miles actually going to be worth?
Much the same as any 5 year old one you can find is worth at the moment, the model change will have made little difference.
Value is all relative, if it is a smaller outlay to start with then its always going to be worth less after x years
The drive the deal examples for finance aren't very good tbh, high Apr and I would be very surprised if the dealer couldn't beat it. Best thing to do is enquire and talk to the supplying dealer about the finance side of things.
You should use the drive the deal price ( not the finance) to get a better dealer discount.
Value is all relative, if it is a smaller outlay to start with then its always going to be worth less after x years
The drive the deal examples for finance aren't very good tbh, high Apr and I would be very surprised if the dealer couldn't beat it. Best thing to do is enquire and talk to the supplying dealer about the finance side of things.
You should use the drive the deal price ( not the finance) to get a better dealer discount.
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