A question about Phd's and Eng Doc's

Sorry for bumping an oldish thread but its perfect for my needs!

Recent masters grad currently in the (lucky) situation of having the opportunity to do an engD or take a well paid graduate role at Intel (free cpus!).
One hand PHD+ with good stipend..other hand its intel (who rarely hire).

Any engDs on here who can give me their thoughts:
  • Did you go after graduate roles or did the engd contribute to required minimum work experience required in more senior/experienced roles?
  • Initial starting salaries and potential salary differences over a masters and,more importantly, over having four years in industry from a grad role?
  • General engd perspectives?

any help appreciated guys!
 
dazzday, if you've been offered a job then I'd go for the job. You'll gain the same experience in the same time but without the burden of the academic work. I started my EngD to get back into engineering because I'd been out of the industry for a number of years and the recession was still in full swing.

One advantage of the EngD is that they often put you bang smack in the middle of strategic roles. So with mine I sit on a number commitees at the IOM3 and Royal Society, relating to use of strategically important materials. I expect my role at the end will be similar, rather than the usual engineering roles.
 
Thanks for the replies.

Jonny69 said:
dazzday, if you've been offered a job then I'd go for the job. You'll gain the same experience in the same time but without the burden of the academic work. I started my EngD to get back into engineering because I'd been out of the industry for a number of years and the recession was still in full swing.

One advantage of the EngD is that they often put you bang smack in the middle of strategic roles. So with mine I sit on a number commitees at the IOM3 and Royal Society, relating to use of strategically important materials. I expect my role at the end will be similar, rather than the usual engineering roles.
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The engd still seems to be "the golden ticket"...a phd + 1/2 mba + 4 years experience...but im worried at just how much benefit i will get from it over a masters and 4years experience in industry.
How are you finding the engd? Whats the workload like?
 
Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I was just wondering how the EngD graduates are getting on?
Mud, Jonny69, grumpysculler? Did you get jobs after or did you go into academia? If you did find employment, were they jobs with your sponsor or did you move on?

I'm 7 months into my EngD (at aged 25) and will be 29 when I graduate. I only have an BEng(hons) at the moment (took 5 years to do an undergrad because of illness).
My research isn't exactly what I'm interested in, I'd prefer to be working with embedded systems or some sort of intersection between electronics and computer science (evolvable hardware maybe?). My current research is more based on safety critical real-time scheduling.

Would it be hard to get into a different type of job or are you tied to your research for your career? Is the pay any better than after doing 4 years in industry?
I don't want to be the old guy with no experience or employment prospects that employers look on as an 'old timer' or have to end up in a grad scheme with 21 year olds...
 
OpenToSuggestions said:
Hey all,

I am nearing the end of my manufacturing engineering degree and I am unsure whether I want to stay on at Loughborough to do a Phd or Engineering Doctorate.

I have been here 5 years (inc. placement) and part of me wants to get a graduate job, yet part of me wants to do further study. The funding is certainly there to support me whilst I study.

Just wondering who out there has done a similar study and what comments you have?
Will the extra years really add much to my earning potential?
People off my course are going into graduate jobs paying £22-30k.
I want to go into a graduate job at my placement company (they were good) and they will pay back my tuition fees over time.

Thanks in advance!
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Edit, just seen this thread has been resurrected twice!
 
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OzyOly said:
Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I was just wondering how the EngD graduates are getting on?
Mud, Jonny69, grumpysculler? Did you get jobs after or did you go into academia? If you did find employment, were they jobs with your sponsor or did you move on?

I'm 7 months into my EngD (at aged 25) and will be 29 when I graduate. I only have an BEng(hons) at the moment (took 5 years to do an undergrad because of illness).
My research isn't exactly what I'm interested in, I'd prefer to be working with embedded systems or some sort of intersection between electronics and computer science (evolvable hardware maybe?). My current research is more based on safety critical real-time scheduling.

Would it be hard to get into a different type of job or are you tied to your research for your career? Is the pay any better than after doing 4 years in industry?
I don't want to be the old guy with no experience or employment prospects that employers look on as an 'old timer' or have to end up in a grad scheme with 21 year olds...
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You are certainly not tied to your research, perhaps slightly more so for a an EngD. My PhD is in swarm intelligence for distributed flying robotic systems but I work in optimization, search, data mining, machine learning etc.

A PhD is about learning skills and techniques, learning large scale project management, micro and macro time management, presentation and communication, analysis, scientific writing, learning to be adaptable, problem solving, etc. The specific area of study is just a particular topic to apply this learning to. Many people will carry on in the same area because that is what they are interested in and that is what they know in detail but a PhD is far more than learning about a subject.
 
D.P. said:
You are certainly not tied to your research, perhaps slightly more so for a an EngD. My PhD is in swarm intelligence for distributed flying robotic systems but I work in optimization, search, data mining, machine learning etc.

A PhD is about learning skills and techniques, learning large scale project management, micro and macro time management, presentation and communication, analysis, scientific writing, learning to be adaptable, problem solving, etc. The specific area of study is just a particular topic to apply this learning to. Many people will carry on in the same area because that is what they are interested in and that is what they know in detail but a PhD is far more than learning about a subject.
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That project sounds very familiar to me, you wouldn't have been accused of working on drones for BAE at one point would you? ;)

I will take on board what you have said. I think I need to raise my concerns with my supervisor as soon as possible too. I've been too busy with EngD taught modules to get stuck into the research or find a way I could go down an research avenue that I find more interesting. I'm been lead by my supervisor to work on his research area as I haven't had time to do any research for the first year individual project.
 
I did an organic chemistry Ph.D admittedly many years ago. Worst three years of my life, hated it but I'm sure I wouldn't have got the job I now have without it and I'm pleased I did. I never lived for chemistry like most of my fellow students so was never going to be a researcher for the rest of my life but it certainly taught me the ability to think in a scientific manner which I didn't really get from my chemistry degree.
 
OzyOly said:
That project sounds very familiar to me, you wouldn't have been accused of working on drones for BAE at one point would you? ;)

I will take on board what you have said. I think I need to raise my concerns with my supervisor as soon as possible too. I've been too busy with EngD taught modules to get stuck into the research or find a way I could go down an research avenue that I find more interesting. I'm been lead by my supervisor to work on his research area as I haven't had time to do any research for the first year individual project.
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Not the same project but I know that project well - the lead prof (Holland) was an expert for my defense. :D


What i didn't mention was that although you are not stuck in the subject you research if you don't enjoy it then you will struggle through the PhD.
 
Vague question that people in this thread might be able to answer. Im doing an OU Engineering degree (just a BSc) which Ill complete when Im 38/39 in a few years time! Quite scary I know, but I really wanted to move into the industry (well more industrial design) and wanted to prove to myself I was still capable of an intellectual pursuit so seemed a logical way to go about things...

Obviously Im going to be far more mature than most, but I was wondering if something like a EngD might be more useful than the MSc I was considering doing. Im worried without some future planning and a lot of money I might just not actually get to where I want to be and obviously age is very much against me!

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
jkb said:
I did an organic chemistry Ph.D admittedly many years ago. Worst three years of my life, hated it but I'm sure I wouldn't have got the job I now have without it and I'm pleased I did. I never lived for chemistry like most of my fellow students so was never going to be a researcher for the rest of my life but it certainly taught me the ability to think in a scientific manner which I didn't really get from my chemistry degree.
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I'm sure there are other skills I will turn through my EngD, but I'm not sure it's going to be worth 4 years of my life. 29 with a doctorate degree and earning only an average grad wage would be a life failure.

D.P. said:
Not the same project but I know that project well - the lead prof (Holland) was an expert for my defense. :D


What i didn't mention was that although you are not stuck in the subject you research if you don't enjoy it then you will struggle through the PhD.
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I don't particularly like my research but I'd complete it if I have to, I can get through even the ****est papers and research projects if I think it'll be worth the pain. I left a well paid job to do the EngD, but I feel I'm going to be at a disadvantage when it comes to getting a new job at the end of it compared to an MSc student.
 
A phd isnt a degree its a job

A good one too

PhD > Post Doc > Researcher/Reader/Lecturer > Assistant Professor > Professor

Yes there can be a lot of stress

But if it is in a science and at a good university with good money to spend on equipment etc, generally:
- you pick your own hours like a student (not for everyone I agree)
- you get to choose what you want to do (within reason)
- Publish loads of papers and get to travel around the world, for free
- If you are good you will even get to live in other countries for short periods every now and then
- It is very results based, probably you will be on 3 years max contracts and if you work is rubbish you wont get a new one
 
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Mr. Pickle said:
A phd isnt a degree its a job
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A PhD is a degree, the job title is whatever your funding allocates you. For example, my "job" at the university is a Research Assistant :p

Just writing up my thesis at the moment - I'm starting a new position in industry in September so trying to get the finishing touches done at the moment. I've done 45,000 words so far and not expecting to do that much more - my research is computational in nature so there is quite a lot of maths involved which helps to cut down the words. I've had a good time on my PhD, but this has been massively due to my two supervisors, who are both brilliant. Looking forward to starting in the real world now :)
 
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