Get out fatty!

[Xordium]

/snip.

Castiel with all respect I am not sure you actually know what you've put there.

This is why sometimes it's best not to argue from Wikipedia and google searches. Knowledge and information are only pertinent of they are applied appropriately and in context. You've actually substantiated the points I made without realising it.

You are also assuming I would not argue for restricting access for at risk groups. I would strongly enforce that if possible in this country.

I feel very strongly that people like Tefal should not be detailing their woeful experience due to lack of provision and money in our system (on these forums) when people come into this country and have kids with their second cousin, come in with known expensive illnesses, and strong predisposition towards potential illness etc. We all fund (well most) The National Health Service - not The International Health service like half of Asia and Africa seems to think.

I think the understandable issue is why did they wait for 6 years of annual reviews to say get lost? Why didn't they reject his first application when he was even bigger?

That would require actual knowledge rather than a quick google. They've recently had a big reorganisation and focus on 'renal replacement therapy' due to low rates of live-related transplant and a lack of practitioners who are capable of facilitating peritoneal dialysis. Therefore, there has been a national drive to address risk factors for renal failure across the board.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

I don't know, it hasn't even made the news here and for a country of 4 million people that probably tells you how important it is viewed as being. I don't know how the annual reviews work either but the fact that circumstances are monitored annually gives me more not less comfort.

 

[Castiel]

Castiel with all respect I am not sure you actually know what you've put there.

This is why sometimes it's best not to argue from Wikipedia and google searches. Knowledge and information are only pertinent of they are applied appropriately and in context. You've actually substantiated the points I made without realising it.

I know exactly what I've written, it is appropriate and the knowledge I have is from a whole bank of NHS dieticians, two bariatric surgeons and a metabolic specialist over the last 6 years. The articles supplied were for illustration , not the basis of my argument.

The whole thing doesn't matter anyway, because clearly it is socially acceptable to show prejudice against people based solely on their body shape and not their actual predisposition to chronic conditions.

 

[Castiel]

The right to live in this country is governed by a number of practices and I have no problem with the one which requires immigrants - like me - to not be a high risk future burden on a country which is not your own and which you have not financially contributed to for a number of years.

Don't get bent out of a shape because a country decides that you are not a good fit, crap pun intended.

So you have no issue whatsoever if the NZ authorities deported you simply because it was discovered you had a genetic predisposition to a chronic illness?...not that you had one, just a small chance of perhaps contracting one in the future?

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

They could not do that as I am a permanent resident. The chap in the BBC link is on an annual work visa; that is, a visa that allows you to work for a year if you meet certain criteria. He perhaps once did but now does not meet one or more of those criteria.

 

[EvilDreams]

Jesus.. i always find the Vitriol in these threads amazing #31 and #32 being great examples.

Its weird on a forum where racism and Homophobia will get you banned saying that stuff is completely acceptable and it would appear, as a thread is posted once a week, encouraged?

Replace the word Fat with Negro or Jew and its ....

Mod comment?

It's quite simple. It's even been explained in previous posts. Being fat is a lifestyle choice. Having kids is a lifestyle choice. Shaving half your head and starting a fire on someone's driveway is a lifestyle choice. Being gay or black or schizophrenic or disabled....isn't.

See the difference?

 

[Xordium]

I know exactly what I've written, it is appropriate and the knowledge I have is from a whole bank of NHS dieticians, two bariatric surgeons and a metabolic specialist over the last 6 years. The articles supplied were for illustration , not the basis of my argument.

The whole thing doesn't matter anyway, because clearly it is socially acceptable to show prejudice against people based solely on their body shape and not their actual predisposition to chronic conditions.

I think Dolph would say that is an appeal to expertise or intellect - along those lines ... just a second hand one.

Or alternatively you've completely overlooked the fact that obesity is both genetically and environmentally hereditary - something I mentioned ...

We've been here before haven't we a thread what say about 4-5 months ago where you responded very sensitively and passionately about 'weight'.

At the end of the day NZ has a problem. They've highlighted known factors in causing that problem and are acting on it. Seems quite reasonable to me. Their country - their rules. We should do the same.

 

[Participant]

Replace the word Fat with Negro or Jew and its ....

Mod comment?

Cause it's exactly the same, right?! Fat is a lifestyle choice.

I think the understandable issue is why did they wait for 6 years of annual reviews to say get lost? Why didn't they reject his first application when he was even bigger?

Maybe they changed their minds? They are allowed to change policy you know.

Castiel with all respect I am not sure you actually know what you've put there.

This is why sometimes it's best not to argue from Wikipedia and google searches.

It's becoming easier to comment when he doesn't do that than when he does.

 

[Efour]

ahh Lifestyle choice.. So you hate/resent the exiistance of 30% of all New Zealanders, 1.3M people. Without ever seeing them or talking them.
Ok. Well that's good. I'm happy for you and your black and white judgement lives.
Anything else you hate ?
How old are you curiosity?

actually ninja edit : Tell us why you dislike these people as openly as you can without getting suspended, what is it that really offends you and when did you first realise your opinions.

if you can be arsed.

 

[Participant]

I can't help it. Don't be anti-fatist.

Also you escalated 'don't like' to 'hate'. Don't mis-quote, paraphrase, or otherwise use artistic licence to try and enhance your point please.

 

[Xordium]

I think what people people are missing here is that when you draw up a list of risk factors you have to target the ones you can measure and measure cost effectively.

I mean ideally when assessing people it would be nice to be able to run a full genetic screen, MRI, CT, daily observation recording, full blood work, total history and god knows what else physiological tests you can think of. However, it is rather cost prohibitive. Unless you want to pass that cost burden onto all immigrants.

 

[Castiel]

I think Dolph would say that is an appeal to expertise or intellect - along those lines ... just a second hand one.

Or alternatively you've completely overlooked the fact that obesity is both genetically and environmentally hereditary - something I mentioned ...

We've been here before haven't we a thread what say about 4-5 months ago where you responded very sensitively and passionately about 'weight'.

At the end of the day NZ has a problem. They've highlighted known factors in causing that problem and are acting on it. Seems quite reasonable to me. Their country - their rules. We should do the same.

The point I am trying to make is that their application appears to be based on appearance rather than actual individual risk. NZ does have a problem, with 30% of its population being obese it is one of the worst developed countries for obesity...with Maori and Children being highest as a percentage..65% of Pacific New Zealanders are overweight, Asians are the only group who are reporting g large increases in rates of obesity . This is not in dispute, I think it is simply unfair to apply rules to an individual without consideration of the individuals personal circumstances instead they are applying a blanket rule regardless of those individuals actual risk, and if they are applying such blanket rules based solely on risk factors rather than appearence then they should be excluding Pacific Islanders and Asians as a matter of course. This is what I was pointing out.

If they wish to exclude people based on their risk of contracting a chronic illness, then they should really do so on an individual basis, if it requires a cost being applied to the immigrant, then they should do so...then it is up to the prospective immigrant to bear the costs associated with their application. They could also institute a system whereby immigrants are required to access Heath services through private health insurance. Simply kicking this chap out after 6 years based solely on his BMI seems to be prejudicial rather than based on evidence that the individual is likely to be a net burden on their health service. Effectively, if they apply this equally, then everyone with a BMI over the 25-30 range would be deported...in a country with a high proportion of such people and a high proportion of immigration this could prove to be counterintuitive.

 

[Efour]

I can't help it. Don't be anti-fatist.

Also you escalated 'don't like' to 'hate'. Don't mis-quote, paraphrase, or otherwise use artistic licence to try and enhance your point please.

no problem, i dont have a point.

edit: I dont know why i read past the first post in these threads, its the same stuff every week. I just get irked at the band wagoning .

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

<snip>At the end of the day NZ has a problem. They've highlighted known factors in causing that problem and are acting on it. Seems quite reasonable to me.

NZ has a large Samoan and other Pacific Islander populace and this alone skews the obesity rate massively. I think there's a stat that suggests that Samoans eat more meat per kg of their own body weight than anyone else in the world. This doesn't make it not a problem and I think I'm trying to add weight to your point even if English appears to have abandoned me this evening

 

[Participant]

actually ninja edit : Tell us why you dislike these people as openly as you can without getting suspended, what is it that really offends you and when did you first realise your opinions.

I suppose it's because they smell bad, sweat more, look unattractive, take up a lot of room on planes and trains, cost more in terms of a burden to the NHS, have an increased risk of an early death which is selfish if they have family, often make other people around them fat (such as their kids) through their pro-fatty attitude, cannot run or do much of use physically speaking, and all because they're too lazy and weak-minded to eat properly. It's hard to respect people like that.

Not sure when I first realised my opinions. Probably from hearing the attitudes of others to fat people in my formative years.

Phew it was good to get that off my chest, thanks doc.

 

[joeyjojo]

I think what people people are missing here is that when you draw up a list of risk factors you have to target the ones you can measure and measure cost effectively.

Take the argument ad absurdum, and maybe they should also ban immigrants from riding motorbikes, since people who ride motorbikes are more likely to be a drain on the public health system than those who walk. Isn't riding a motorbike a dangerous but personal choice similar to making yourself fat?

 

[MrMoonX]

What you put in your body is still 100% your choice last time I checked. It's not like McD came round last night, force me to the floor and stuffed my face full of Cheese burgers.

Fruit and Veg is dirt cheap despite what the loony left would have you believe.

It's not just fast food though is it, the majority of fruit and veg you buy in a supermarket is covered in chemicals, the only way to ensure you don't eat chemicals is to buy organic from a farmers market which does cost more. In the USA it's cheaper to feed a family of four rubbish in McDonald's than it is to go grocery shopping and make a healthy meal, that's madness and this country isn't far behind

 

['Harry]

dem fatty's r stealin me tax's

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

e : to post #56

Car and motorbike licences have reciprocal rights and agreements between NZ and the UK.

 

[MrMoonX]

They should scrap VAT on fruit and veg in the UK that would be interesting. Off topic but interesting.

We don't pay VAT on fruit and veg afaik I'm sure it's zero rated anyway