gah debt collection

mattyfez · 30 Jul 2013 at 18:35

Pretty sure I read something about gym contract enforcement, and as they are notorious for ripping people off.. I'll see if I can dig something out.

Lol at people saying cough up, especially if you can't use the service due to over subscription?

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-2006368/Want-cancel-gym-membership-The-legal-loophole-it.html

If you cant enjoy the gym without having to wait, I would view that as breach of contract, and grounds to cancel.

Nexus · 30 Jul 2013 at 18:39

mattyfez said:
Pretty sure I read something about gym contract enforcement, and as they are notorious for ripping people off.. I'll see if I can dig something out.

Lol at people saying cough up, especially if you can't use the service due to over subscription?

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-2006368/Want-cancel-gym-membership-The-legal-loophole-it.html

If you cant enjoy the gym without having to wait, I would view that as breach of contract, and grounds to cancel.

The article you have just presented though quite clearly states:

It also means that gym-goers can cancel their memberships without cost, even if it is within 12 months, if they raise genuine issues about the quality of the gym.

The OP didn't raise his issues properly and decided to default on his contract rather than fight it.

estebanrey · 30 Jul 2013 at 18:49

Nexus said:
The OP didn't raise his issues properly and decided to default on his contract rather than fight it.

He raised it with their staff and spoke to the manager. What else should they have done to 'raise the issue properly'?

mattyfez · 30 Jul 2013 at 18:50

Nexus said:
Some of the posters above have pointed out quite correctly that if you really had an issue with the gym being too busy, thus not getting the service you paid for, then you really should have raised that with an official complaint in writing and spoken to whatever legal advisory services could have helped.

Since you have just cancelled a direct debit, ignored it and have debt collectors on the case, you can't really fall back on that argument now.

If it ever actually went to court, you could quite easily claim that you weren't getting the level of service you reasonably expect and you considered the contract cancelled on that basis, therefore you stopped paying for the service.

If you asked the gym to cancel we all know exactly how they would respond as their business model is actually about locking people into contracts as opposed to providing a quality service.

Nexus · 30 Jul 2013 at 18:58

estebanrey said:
He raised it with their staff and spoke to the manager. What else should they have done to 'raise the issue properly'?

He got fobbed off by the manager.

He could have escalated it in writing to their head office, which is where all the control for chain gyms come from anyway in my experience.

Further to that, as people have pointed out he could have sought advice from organisations like The Citizens Advise Bureau etc. I'm sure there are many things he could have done to make his point clear. Gyms by the very nature of how they operate aren't going to make it easy for you, which is why you would need to fight your corner.

mattyfez said:
If it ever actually went to court, you could quite easily claim that you weren't getting the level of service you reasonably expect and you considered the contract cancelled on that basis, therefore you stopped paying for the service.

I don't think that will stand up in court, as you can't just stop paying and default on a contract. His disagreement only amounts to a conversation with a manger, which there will be no record of. A recorded letter to head office and further dialogue would create a proper paper trail which can be accounted for. He could have also had photo/video evidence of the gym being unusable when he was there, but obviously doesn't.

To look at it from another way.... what is to say the OP just decided he wanted to use another gym, knowing he couldn't cancel the current one, he just stopped paying. As there is little to say he was disgruntled, it could just as easily be claimed that by the gym.

If you asked the gym to cancel we all know exactly how they would respond as their business model is actually about locking people into contracts as opposed to providing a quality service.

Indeed, as I said above, they will try and fob you off, which is why you need to stand your ground.

MrMoonX · 30 Jul 2013 at 19:07

arknor said:
they add there own money on though and it well end up ar £1000 or something stupid by time it goes to court.

some companies will avoid debt collectors for a few hundred and just offer you an amount to pay usually like 40% of what you owe

once it goes to debt collectors I wouldn't risk it

Debt collectors can't add fees, bailiffs can however, it's never going to end up in court, I have a friend who used to work for a debt agency, they avoid court for all but debts over £2k they buy 1000s of debts for 20 - 30p in the £ and try to turn a profit by getting mugs to pay them in full. They rely on harassment and fear to make people pay, in reality they give up after a few months

ince · 30 Jul 2013 at 19:08

You can't just stop payment you should have taken the official channels to sort this put.

mattyfez · 30 Jul 2013 at 19:10

Nexus said:
He got fobbed off by the manager.

He could have escalated it in writing to their head office, which is where all the control for chain gyms come from anyway in my experience.

Further to that, as people have pointed out he could have sought advice from organisations like The Citizens Advise Bureau etc. I'm sure there are many things he could have done to make his point clear. Gyms by the very nature of how they operate aren't going to make it easy for you, which is why you would need to fight your corner.

I don't think that will stand up in court, as you can't just stop paying and default on a contract. His disagreement only amounts to a conversation with a manger, which there will be no record of. A recorded letter to head office and further dialogue would create a proper paper trail which can be accounted for. He could have also had photo/video evidence of the gym being unusable when he was there, but obviously doesn't.

To look at it from another way.... what is to say the OP just decided he wanted to use another gym, knowing he couldn't cancel the current one, he just stopped paying. As there is little to say he was disgruntled, it could just as easily be claimed that by the gym.

Indeed, as I said above, they will try and fob you off, which is why you need to stand your ground.

You have a point there but equally no right minded person would be continue to pay for a service if it falls below reasonable expectation.

That aside, I missed the fact that he's raised this issue with the gym, so this puts him in a much stronger position.

Kenai · 30 Jul 2013 at 19:14

mattyfez said:
That aside, I missed the fact that he's raised this issue with the gym, so this puts him in a much stronger position.

It would if there was any record of it, which unless they admit to remembering the conversation, there isn't.

This is all wonderful theory but should have been done when the dispute was first raised, not once debt collectors are knocking at the door because you just stopped paying.

The gym will deny you said anything, you've no proof otherwise, I think you'll struggle.

mattyfez · 30 Jul 2013 at 19:24

Kenai said:
It would if there was any record of it, which unless they admit to remembering the conversation, there isn't.

This is all wonderful theory but should have been done when the dispute was first raised, not once debt collectors are knocking at the door because you just stopped paying.

The gym will deny you said anything, you've no proof otherwise, I think you'll struggle.

The first thing to do is to email or recorded delivery to the debt collection to advise the alleged debt is in dispute. They then cannot legally persue the Op and will have to pass the debt back to the gym until the dispute has been settled.

Sudden · 30 Jul 2013 at 19:35

MrMoonX said:
Debt collectors can't add fees, bailiffs can however, it's never going to end up in court, I have a friend who used to work for a debt agency, they avoid court for all but debts over £2k they buy 1000s of debts for 20 - 30p in the £ and try to turn a profit by getting mugs to pay them in full. They rely on harassment and fear to make people pay, in reality they give up after a few months

That's that particular agency. Others will have different thresholds. Im aware of at least one whose threshold is £500.

Mr-White · 30 Jul 2013 at 19:50

If you'd have stuck out the gym you could have made a run for it

MW

Drake5 · 30 Jul 2013 at 19:57

MrMoonX said:
Debt collectors can't add fees, bailiffs can however, it's never going to end up in court, I have a friend who used to work for a debt agency, they avoid court for all but debts over £2k they buy 1000s of debts for 20 - 30p in the £ and try to turn a profit by getting mugs to pay them in full. They rely on harassment and fear to make people pay, in reality they give up after a few months

Couldn't be more wrong.

Destination · 30 Jul 2013 at 20:09

mattyfez said:
Pretty sure I read something about gym contract enforcement, and as they are notorious for ripping people off.. I'll see if I can dig something out.

Lol at people saying cough up, especially if you can't use the service due to over subscription?

LOL all you like, if he didn't complain in writing at the time, and simply withdrew payment without notification, then he owes the money, and if it continues his credit rating will reveal he has done this.

ExRayTed · 30 Jul 2013 at 20:13

Pay up. Learn. Move on.

mattyfez · 30 Jul 2013 at 20:18

Hikari Kisugi said:
LOL all you like, if he didn't complain in writing at the time, and simply withdrew payment without notification, then he owes the money, and if it continues his credit rating will reveal he has done this.

Why would any reasonable person take the time to complain in writing after basically being told to sod of when he verbally complained to the management?

Hellsmk2 · 30 Jul 2013 at 20:21

regulus said:
Done this with Virgin Active. Ridiculously busy gym and I cancelled my DD. had a few letters from an ambulance chaser, a few threats of some strain. Binned the letters and never heard anything again.

Did this with Orange a few years ago. Thought nothing of it for years until I tried to get a mortgage and got **** on due to a blemish on my credit record. Had to jump through hoops to get it rectified.

Ignore it at your peril.

No complaint in writing originally means you don't have a leg to stand on. A verbal complaint is nothing. Cough up and do yourself a favour in the long run.

AJK · 30 Jul 2013 at 20:26

mattyfez said:
Why would any reasonable person take the time to complain in writing after basically being told to sod of when he verbally complained to the management?

Why would any reasonable person not do this?

gambitt · 30 Jul 2013 at 20:34

I'm actually glad to see so many people saying that one would have to pay up "because it's a contract". It makes life easier those of us who don't bend over for anyone who waives what is effectively just a piece of toilet paper at me.

Nexus · 30 Jul 2013 at 20:44

mattyfez said:
Why would any reasonable person take the time to complain in writing after basically being told to sod of when he verbally complained to the management?

Because thats how these things work.

If you don't get the response you want or any proper dialogue, then you escalate it to head office. Which as I already pointed out is where all accounts and such are managed for chain gyms anyway so who is you want to deal with from the off.

Further to that, seek proper legal advice.

Its all well and good cancelling your payment, but you need to have clear and documented reasoning behind it. In the case of the OP, there is nothing remotely to that effect.