Poundland Girl Wins Forced Labour Ruling

FoxEye · 31 Jul 2013 at 23:39

estebanrey said:
Having a high opinion of yourself is all very well, but there's a difference between demanding respect and being down right delusional and thinking the world owes you a living.

You don't need to have an over-inflated self worth, or think the world owes you a living, to take a principled stand against forced, unpaid labour.

This is the crux of the matter:

1 - private companies get to benefit from free labour, no social benefit
2 - potentially less real, paid jobs as a result
3 - no 'valuable training' is provided, this is a smokescreen and/or downright lie
4 - guidelines for placement are not being followed by the job centres

estebanrey · 31 Jul 2013 at 23:53

FoxEye said:
You don't need to have an over-inflated self worth, or think the world owes you a living, to take a principled stand against forced, unpaid labour.

It's not 'forced labour'.

CREATIVE!11 · 1 Aug 2013 at 00:24

estebanrey said:
It's not 'forced labour'.

you do it or you starve,

Which part of forced do you people NOT understand? or are people in this thread not being clear enough.

Your choices are, either you do it get sanctioned have no money to feed your kids yourself your dog, or do the work experience and work full time for under minimum wage.

It is forced, period. No arguments. There is no viable alternative you can't really turn around and say no I'm not doing it.

Angilion · 1 Aug 2013 at 00:32

estebanrey said:
It's not 'forced labour'.

If I gave you a choice of working for me or dying, would you regard that as me forcing you to work for me?

And yes, that is a valid comparison. The only difference is that these people have the additional choices of a life of crime or living rough on the streets begging to survive. Well, that and the fact that I wouldn't be allowed to treat you that way.

Angilion · 1 Aug 2013 at 00:46

Sudden said:
Because you're someone whose keen to work? As opposed to someone who'd sit around and do nothing? Which sounds more attractive to an employer?

Of course an eager slave sounds better to a particularly unprincipled employer. That enables them to sack someone and save the money they would have spent on wages. You weren't talking about someone who's keen to work. You were talking about someone who will pay a lot of money and go to a lot of trouble to work for nothing. I'm curious about one thing - how do you think they should get the money to pay for the 10 bus journeys per day?

Something being attractive to unpleasant people doesn't necessarily mean that it's right.

I think it's telling that in the famous Four Old Yorkshiremen sketch by Monty Python, it's not until the final absurd story by the last one that they get to what you consider a good idea - having to pay for work for nothing.

Angilion · 1 Aug 2013 at 00:54

esoteric said:
Jokes on you, I'm not a football fan!

@Mr-White, I have no issue with working, it's just working without a wage I don't like. Replace my £70 a week with a wage of £70 and I'll work the 14 hours to earn it, just get me off the dole.

I'd happily work 14 hours a week for £70 if it was possible to live on £70 a week. It isn't. Not even close.

Some background for anyone who thinks I must be a parasite on society because I oppose forced labour and the general oppression of the poor:

I work 40 hours a week. I worked 60-70 hours a week for 5 years (a second job to pay off debts I ran up). I'm 44. I once spent 3 weeks on the dole while I was looking for a job.

spankingtexan · 1 Aug 2013 at 05:44

CREATIVE!11 said:
you do it or you starve,

Which part of forced do you people NOT understand? or are people in this thread not being clear enough.

Your choices are, either you do it get sanctioned have no money to feed your kids yourself your dog, or do the work experience and work full time for under minimum wage.

It is forced, period. No arguments. There is no viable alternative you can't really turn around and say no I'm not doing it.

This^ This^ and This^ END OF.

Bear · 1 Aug 2013 at 06:52

CREATIVE!11 said:
you do it or you starve,

Which part of forced do you people NOT understand? or are people in this thread not being clear enough.

Your choices are, either you do it get sanctioned have no money to feed your kids yourself your dog, or do the work experience and work full time for under minimum wage.

It is forced, period. No arguments. There is no viable alternative you can't really turn around and say no I'm not doing it.

Dont get me wrong I am against workfare as I think if you are going to work, you should get at least minimum wage.

That said I thought this was voluntary, you could say no its just the job center makes out like its compulsory when it isnt, or are we talking about a different scheme or has it changed?

Showboat · 1 Aug 2013 at 07:00

CREATIVE!11 said:
you do it or you starve,

Which part of forced do you people NOT understand? or are people in this thread not being clear enough.

Your choices are, either you do it get sanctioned have no money to feed your kids yourself your dog, or do the work experience and work full time for under minimum wage.

It is forced, period. No arguments. There is no viable alternative you can't really turn around and say no I'm not doing it.

+1
As much as I hate people sponging off the system, I hate people being taken advantage of. And this is what this is.
If they need experience send them for a few hours a week to a charity or a big business that is paying the min wage to the gov for their time.

Efour · 1 Aug 2013 at 07:24

Been speaking to a friend of a friend who runs a small business. His entire business model is now based on using workfare people and internships that he can train up in 3 days and replace after a 12week period... They make him good money and he is literally paying nothing.

spankingtexan · 1 Aug 2013 at 07:39

Efour said:
Been speaking to a friend of a friend who runs a small business. His entire business model is now based on using workfare people and internships that he can train up in 3 days and replace after a 12week period... They make him good money and he is literally paying nothing.

uummm, you can see why IDS is so reluctant to release the providers information requested under the FOI act, that small business man wont know what hit him if he is exposed.

Would like his details left here..

http://www.boycottworkfare.org/?page_id=1703

spankingtexan · 1 Aug 2013 at 07:50

Sudden said:
Why would I fight the benefit cuts/sanctions? I'm not entitled to any. Nor am I entitled to any state support. What benefit is there for me to fight any of them? Like when uni fees went up to 3k a year. I paid 12k a year. Is there any reason for me to complain?

He doesn't need to contact him...the applicant can say that all this happened and you know, be telling the truth. Is an employer likely to hire someone who sat at home and did nothing, or someone who did at least something?

AAARRR, I see, so cause you can't get anything no one else should.

I'm not a student but I fought for them when the libdems screwed em over. I guess I'm just like that, fight injustices even if they don't effect me.

RDM · 1 Aug 2013 at 07:56

spankingtexan said:
I'm not a student but I fought for them when the libdems screwed em over. I guess I'm just like that, fight injustices even if they don't effect me.

Did you back the NUS scheme which was arguably worse than the current system?

spankingtexan · 1 Aug 2013 at 08:19

RDM said:
Did you back the NUS scheme which was arguably worse than the current system?

NO

Muffin` · 1 Aug 2013 at 08:20

spankingtexan said:
I'm not a student but I fought for them when the libdems screwed em over. I guess I'm just like that, fight injustices even if they don't effect me.

So you are the stereotypical crusty; in it for a fight, doesn't matter what the cause is about, as long as you get to stick it to the man.

Biohazard · 1 Aug 2013 at 08:26

Muffin` said:
So you are the stereotypical crusty; in it for a fight, doesn't matter what the cause is about, as long as you get to stick it to the man.

I too fight injustice and inequality when it doesn't effect me.

What of it, exactly? You don't need to have a chip on your shoulder to give support to those in need.

spankingtexan · 1 Aug 2013 at 08:30

Muffin` said:
So you are the stereotypical crusty; in it for a fight, doesn't matter what the cause is about, as long as you get to stick it to the man.

Oh dear, I fight injustices, I care about injustices as long as I believe it to be an injustice, you know, like people being forced to work for nothing.

Zeed · 1 Aug 2013 at 08:35

Well this is it. I work for minimum wage and bitch about it time to time.But at lest i got a job and is hard to get anything descent in Nottingham. I know cause could not find anything besides ****** agency warehouse jobs that paid crap and made me work with other Polish people..... And I hate to work with Poles even to I am one

But when **** hit the fan I was driving 40 miles a day to work in crappy job in chocolate factory that barely covered fuel and food.

GAC · 1 Aug 2013 at 08:56

estebanrey said:
Having a high opinion of yourself is all very well, but there's a difference between demanding respect and being down right delusional and thinking the world owes you a living.

ok i have to ask, you are trolling arnt you, otherwise your the one who's being down right delusional about people out of work and the workfare program.

iv been out of work over 2 years now and all i expect is respect as a human being and a wage for any work i do, i know its a strange concept to you it seems but who knew unemployed people actually expected the min wage at the very least for work. hence all the hate directed at the workfare program, as for the vast majority its not paying the min wage when you divide their benefits across hours worked.

as i have said a couple of times i get £71 a week as im still at home with the parents (shocking i know) over a 30 hour week thats £2.36 an hour, hardly min wage no matter how you try to spin it. its free labor though for many companies and has been shown by the many examples in this thread is a great way to improve profit margins and nothing more.

one thing i have noticed is a lot of the rhetoric about lazy jobless people is coming from people who have done ok for themselves, not having a go at someone for making a go of it but just remember a lot of people stuck at the bottom of the ladder arnt there because they want to be, no matter how much news papers and mp's claim this. funny its always professional people who seem to have a chip on their shoulder about people out of work without even having a clue of someones history or situation.

estebanrey · 1 Aug 2013 at 09:43

CREATIVE!11 said:
you do it or you starve,

Which part of forced do you people NOT understand? or are people in this thread not being clear enough.

Your choices are, either you do it get sanctioned have no money to feed your kids yourself your dog, or do the work experience and work full time for under minimum wage.

It is forced, period. No arguments. There is no viable alternative you can't really turn around and say no I'm not doing it.

So would you put being expected to do a couple of weeks of work experience in the same category as the railway building POW's of vietnam or the Nazi labour camps of WW2 (Godwin I know)?

Calling this 'forced labour' is a disgusting insult to the the millions of people who've experienced it. Living in a rich western country that gives you money every week for your misfortune is a paradise compared to how many people around the world live today.

As the latest saying goes, check your privilege.