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AMD Hawaii will be priced below US $600

Martini1991 said:
Not everyone wants or cares about dual GPU solutions.
The fastest card goes to AMD, the fastest GPU goes to Nvidia.
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Is that not roughly what I said? I'm simply pointing out that all the talk is of AMD playing catch up is a myth. They already produce the fastest graphics card currently on the market. Yes their current top end gpu core is a little behind nvidias, but its hardly waaaay behind and an absolutely unassailable disadvantage is it? Especially considering the price differential of the current top end single core nvidia and AMD cards!
 
If it lives up to performance expectations and once the price is not too high, then this is the one I've been waiting for, early too.
 
Duff-Man said:
Unsurprising that the 7970s are able to catch / pass the 780s in Tomb Raider - especially if with TressFX enabled. You would almost certainly find the same in Dirt: Showdown as well. The AMD cards do extremely well in these benchmarks.

Over a full suite of benchmarks the difference will be around 15-20%.
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What is strange with the Tomb Raider bench thread is the gap between the Titans and GTX 780s. I would have expected it to be around 5% but it is more than three times that. Maybe we just need a few more overclocked GTX 780 results to correct this.
 
Kaapstad said:
What is strange with the Tomb Raider bench thread is the gap between the Titans and GTX 780s. I would have expected it to be around 5% but it is more than three times that. Maybe we just need a few more overclocked GTX 780 results to correct this.
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Yeah, I thought they'd be a lot closer too.

As for the 7970 thing... As Besty says, cards that run at 1340+ aren't exactly common. Then there's the difference between what you can bench at and what you can run 24/7.
To me, this means the comparison is pointless as it only applies to a few owners, though it is nice to see what a golden clocker or two can achieve :)

My 1300mhz bench in that thread isn't representative of a 24/7 clock for example.
 
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Kaapstad said:
What is strange with the Tomb Raider bench thread is the gap between the Titans and GTX 780s. I would have expected it to be around 5% but it is more than three times that. Maybe we just need a few more overclocked GTX 780 results to correct this.
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I bought Tomb Raider in the last Steam sale :) I'll have a crack at the benchmark tonight.

My 780s aren't exactly fantastic clockers, but they can just about run at 1200Mhz. I have a new 4770k as well, to replace my "dog of dogs" chip that I had before. Unfortunately it's also a pretty poor clocker, and only gives me an extra 100Mhz or so (although the temperatures are almost 20C lower with this chip at equivalent clock and volts).
 
Kaapstad said:
What is strange with the Tomb Raider bench thread is the gap between the Titans and GTX 780s. I would have expected it to be around 5% but it is more than three times that. Maybe we just need a few more overclocked GTX 780 results to correct this.
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The graphics score gap between a GTX780 at 1200/1850 and a 7970 at 1340/1850 is less than 1%, we can see this from our own leaderboard and submitted results.

Both rigs using these cards were running 3930k at 5GHZ.

The gap between a Titan and these two cards is much, much greater.

The point I was trying to make was not one regarding 24/7 clocks but what AMD need to target, they don't need to target the 780, they need to target the Titan otherwise, people like me will not upgrade.
 
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Besty said:
The point I was trying to make was not one regarding 24/7 clocks but what AMD need to target, they don't need to target the 780, they need to target the Titan otherwise, people like me will not upgrade.
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Fair enough :)

Oh, and I'm only slightly jelly of your beastly cards :o
 
Besty said:
The point I was trying to make was not one regarding 24/7 clocks but what AMD need to target, they don't need to target the 780, they need to target the Titan otherwise, people like me will not upgrade.
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I think that matching a Titan may be a tough ask, unless AMD are willing to produce a >6Bn transistor, 500mm^2 chip (which they have historically been reluctant to do). To do so would seem a lot of work for a relatively short product cycle.

I think the key will be the clockspeed; how stable the shader-pipeline process can be made. If AMD can add 25% to the SP count (for 2560 SP), and can *also* manage to up the core clock a little (always a tough ask when increasing die size), perhaps closer to 1200Mhz, then we could see it happen. Realistically though, I'm expecting the chip to fall a little short of Titan performance, though matching a GTX780 is not unlikely.


I agree with you that a sub-Titan performing chip is unlikely to persuade high-end enthusiasts to upgrade from their existing 28nm setups. I certainly wouldn't upgrade from a pair of 7970s under water either...

I still don't think Tomb Raider is a good benchmark to be judging the relative performance of cards though - it doesn't reflect the overall picture particularly well. Metro Last Light should give a better indication of relative performance, and Heaven 4.0 seems to represent the overall picture fairly well as well.
 
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Tomb Raider isn't particularly unusual. Based on stock clocks at 1080p and recent drivers, the Titan has a big lead over the 7970 in nvidia favouring games (Metro Last Light, 34%; BF 3, 37%). In titles like Dirt Showdown and Witcher 2 it's much less (6% and 16%) while in games that favour AMD GPUs, the 7970 can outperform the Titan (Bioshock Infinite, 2% for the 7970).
 
Kaapstad said:
I wish graphics card manufacturers would have as an option to be able to buy the cards without "the free games" for the lowest price possible.
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They are starting, the Club 3D HD7950 13Series is available without games low prices
 
Duff-Man said:
I think that matching a Titan may be a tough ask, unless AMD are willing to produce a >6Bn transistor, 500mm^2 chip (which they have historically been reluctant to do). To do so would seem a lot of work for a relatively short product cycle.

I think the key will be the clockspeed; how stable the shader-pipeline process can be made. If AMD can add 25% to the SP count (for 2560 SP), and can *also* manage to up the core clock a little (always a tough ask when increasing die size), perhaps closer to 1200Mhz, then we could see it happen. Realistically though, I'm expecting the chip to fall a little short of Titan performance, though matching a GTX780 is not unlikely.


I agree with you that a sub-Titan performing chip is unlikely to persuade high-end enthusiasts to upgrade from their existing 28nm setups. I certainly wouldn't upgrade from a pair of 7970s under water either...

I still don't think Tomb Raider is a good benchmark to be judging the relative performance of cards though - it doesn't reflect the overall picture particularly well. Metro Last Light should give a better indication of relative performance, and Heaven 4.0 seems to represent the overall picture fairly well as well.
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It could be a mistake to target the Titan as it could leave AMD wrong footed. I think NVidia may have a few tricks left up their sleeve with the Titan, remember the Titan runs on a lower voltage than a lot of HD 7970s. What would happen if after the HD 9970 launch if NVidia put a 1.35v Titan out on the market with an improved cooler or waterblocks.
 
Biffa said:
They are starting, the Club 3D HD7950 13Series is available without games low prices
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If this is accurate it kind of makes a mockery of the whole here have this card and get all these games for free.

But of course we all know that is really the way the world works. You get very little for free nowadays.


edit: kaap has just said the same thing more or less 17 mins earlier, how I didn't see that I'm not quite sure, oh well.:)
 
bru said:
If this is accurate it kind of makes a mockery of the whole here have this card and get all these games for free.

But of course we all know that is really the way the world works. You get very little for free nowadays.


edit: kaap has just said the same thing more or less 17 mins earlier, how I didn't see that I'm not quite sure, oh well.:)
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The problem with free games for me is if I buy four HD 9970s when they come out, I would rather buy them at the lowest price possible than end up with a lot of free games and a higher retail price.

The only free game I got with my Titans was

Ripoff sucker.:D
 
Kaapstad said:
It could be a mistake to target the Titan as it could leave AMD wrong footed. I think NVidia may have a few tricks left up their sleeve with the Titan, remember the Titan runs on a lower voltage than a lot of HD 7970s. What would happen if after the HD 9970 launch if NVidia put a 1.35v Titan out on the market with an improved cooler or waterblocks.
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How much would these 1.35v titans cost in comparison though. Would a 1.35v titan be easily cooled on air. Failure rates as well. Nvidia don't have much left up there sleeves in my opinion. The 9970 needs to be fast and well priced. 8pack has said for awhile they are gonna be good so surely he knows something we don't. I am not expecting a miracle card but i think the gtx780 will be well beaten.
 
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