Anti-Fracking Protest?!

From problem with fracking is mostly the speed it's been expanded without any real long term studies of the environmental, geological impact - related to water contamination or the release of greenhouse gases (due to methane leaks).

Government targets are what's driving much of the green energy push & investment in R&D in this area - overly generous subsidies in polluting (via fracking tax breaks) undermines this objective somewhat.

On the flip side, the public really does need help in reducing the burden of the cost of energy - as increased energy costs impact on the lowest earners the highest & they are not financially able to take on the additional cost of these green initiatives.

You do realise that even with fracking "subsidies" (see you read the guardian as well...;)) shale gas companies will still pay a higher proportion in tax than any other industry outside the oil and gas sphere... If shale gas is being subsidised that means all other industries (from farming and mining to clothes shops and supermarkets, banks and accountancy firms) are being subsidies an even greater amount...

Keep calling a tax break (that still means higher tax on profit than other companies a subsidy if you insist though... :)
 
"I don't want to talk about myself, I want to talk about fracking."

Im sick of it.. Been weeks of uneducated morons talking about stuff they are not qualified to have an opinion and should shut up and deal with it.

Exactly this, in bucketfulls!!!

Stupid protesters with their fingers in their ears 'FRACKING IS BAD LALALALA IM NOT LISTENING TO YOUR SCIENCE'.

Mow them all down with a 50 cal, that'll learn them :D

How dare you bring facts into this!

Corporate BS, it's all lies, he knows nothing. I saw a video of a man setting his tap water on fire.

ON FIRE!!!!
 
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There is still no conclusive evidence that in the US fracking fluid (as opposed to drilling mud) has got to/pollluted ground water in any case.


In the US there is one family had their house blown to bits because methane had got in to drinking water
and now they can't even drink it because it's polluted But that never stopped the company trying to force the family to sign a none disclosure form and in the end a judge put a stop to it.

https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/01/17-3

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...-in-April-After-200-000-Gallon-Spill-in-March

And the ones that did sign a none disclosure agreement to get their property put right are now coming forward.

There should be at least 10 years of study and testing here before it goes big time.
 
I was under the impression that fracking as a process - hydraulic fracturing, has been around for a long time and is a process used for purposes other than extraction of shale gas... mainly geothermal energy. Pumping water into the ground at high pressure, deep into subterranean rock formations to tap the heat of the earth to produce electricity.

Granted the scale of that is possibly less than that of shale gas extraction, but the process and the possible consequences are the same. Not ever heard anyone protesting against that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_power_in_the_United_Kingdom#Deep_geothermal_energy_in_the_UK
I know it's a wiki article but it suggests that power generation based on hydro-shearing is already under way as of 2009 as a testbed in the eden project, no less.

Strikes me that there's some evil fossil fuels bandwagon jumping going on here. But that's eco-hippies for you I guess.
 
In the US there is one family had their house blown to bits because methane had got in to drinking water
and now they can't even drink it because it's polluted But that never stopped the company trying to force the family to sign a none disclosure form and in the end a judge put a stop to it.

https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/01/17-3

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...-in-April-After-200-000-Gallon-Spill-in-March

And the ones that did sign a none disclosure agreement to get their property put right are now coming forward.

There should be at least 10 years of study and testing here before it goes big time.

Nice choice of unbiased, reputable news outlets. :)
 
Fracking is new to the UK and as a technology it is still relatively new. The issue is in the past fracking has lead to minor earthworks, ground water contamination and other undesirable side effects. There are plenty of reports available from Canada and the US outlining what has gone wrong a quick google will lead the way.

On the plus side you may get reduced prices for gas. So long as the UK Government proposes strict controls and monitors the operations it might be alright.

Lets say fracking contaminated the water supply in your area, how does the contractor intend to clean up the mess that is several hundred meters underground? what's the extent of the pollution and long term effects? Maybe you might have to pay for increased water charges because water has to be pumped from another aquifer that is not contaminated?

The oil and gas industry is not unknown to drop the ball on occasion and cause pollution. Perhaps their are better alternatives to fracking?
 
You do realise that even with fracking "subsidies" (see you read the guardian as well...;)) shale gas companies will still pay a higher proportion in tax than any other industry outside the oil and gas sphere... If shale gas is being subsidised that means all other industries (from farming and mining to clothes shops and supermarkets, banks and accountancy firms) are being subsidies an even greater amount...

Keep calling a tax break (that still means higher tax on profit than other companies a subsidy if you insist though... :)
Yes, outside of oil & gas - but what does that have to do with anything?.

Let's compare like for like, ie companies which use finite resources of the land & cause pollution the UK tax-payer will have to cover the negative externalities for.

I don't read the Guardian either (I don't buy any newspapers), this story was from -

George Osborne reveals 50% tax break for fracking firms
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-50-tax-break-for-fracking-firms-8718711.html

Fracking is still in it's infancy (for large scale operations) & not enough long term studies of it's potential ecological damage have been done yet (or if they have the studies seem to be private), I'm not saying it should be outright banned or anything - just we should take our time.

I was under the impression that fracking as a process - hydraulic fracturing, has been around for a long time and is a process used for purposes other than extraction of shale gas... mainly geothermal energy. Pumping water into the ground at high pressure, deep into subterranean rock formations to tap the heat of the earth to produce electricity.

Granted the scale of that is possibly less than that of shale gas extraction, but the process and the possible consequences are the same. Not ever heard anyone protesting against that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_power_in_the_United_Kingdom#Deep_geothermal_energy_in_the_UK
I know it's a wiki article but it suggests that power generation based on hydro-shearing is already under way as of 2009 as a testbed in the eden project, no less.

Strikes me that there's some evil fossil fuels bandwagon jumping going on here. But that's eco-hippies for you I guess.
Shale gas requires the constant drilling of holes to get to the gas - geothermal creates the pipes & has a pretty much unlimited supply.

They are very different, just because drilling is involved it doesn't make objections to shale but not geothermal hypocritical.

It's not like people are just "against drilling".
 
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I was under the impression that fracking as a process - hydraulic fracturing, has been around for a long time and is a process used for purposes other than extraction of shale gas... mainly geothermal energy. Pumping water into the ground at high pressure, deep into subterranean rock formations to tap the heat of the earth to produce electricity.

Granted the scale of that is possibly less than that of shale gas extraction, but the process and the possible consequences are the same. Not ever heard anyone protesting against that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_power_in_the_United_Kingdom#Deep_geothermal_energy_in_the_UK
I know it's a wiki article but it suggests that power generation based on hydro-shearing is already under way as of 2009 as a testbed in the eden project, no less.

Strikes me that there's some evil fossil fuels bandwagon jumping going on here. But that's eco-hippies for you I guess.

It's also been used in the oil and gas onshore UK for the last 40 or so years... The only difference is the lithology being fracked and the size (bigger, but generally a lot deeper).

Nice choice of unbiased, reputable news outlets. :)
And there in lies the problem... Anyone can set up a blog or news outlet now. Peer review is important, alongside scientific study on whether the gas was biogenic or related to the actual well in the first place. On the other hand I'm sure there are accidents, much like there are accidents in all industries. If that happens the companiy will have to pay out compensation and pay to clean up the mess. The suggestion that fracking is different to say building sites, sewage works or even wind turbine building in risk is a little silly.
 
Fracking is new to the UK and as a technology it is still relatively new. The issue is in the past fracking has lead to minor earthworks, ground water contamination and other undesirable side effects. There are plenty of reports available from Canada and the US outlining what has gone wrong a quick google will lead the way.

On the plus side you may get reduced prices for gas. So long as the UK Government proposes strict controls and monitors the operations it might be alright.

Lets say fracking contaminated the water supply in your area, how does the contractor intend to clean up the mess that is several hundred meters underground? what's the extent of the pollution and long term effects? Maybe you might have to pay for increased water charges because water has to be pumped from another aquifer that is not contaminated?

The oil and gas industry is not unknown to drop the ball on occasion and cause pollution. Perhaps their are better alternatives to fracking?

Maybe I've misinterpreted what you said, but hydraulic fracturing has been around since the 1960s.
 
...and not one of them even bothered to find out the truth of what they're protesting about:

http://t.co/LP5OTbOo7q

has anyone seen the movie gasland?

I'm concerned about what fracking will do to the water table.

You enjoy fiction do you. See a couple of posts above yours.

Thing is, who is telling the truth? Please do not ever think scientists are not on the payroll of the large corporations. Much the same way they use to say in the 90's that the global warming wasn't true. 20yrs later and some satellite photo's of glaciers half their size, and now the proof is there for us to all see.

In terms of fracking, it does seem there's a fair bit of coverup. One person saying it does all this damage and another person it does absolutely zip.

Which one do you believe?
 
And there in lies the problem... Anyone can set up a blog or news outlet now.


So the Pennsylvania Democratic state committee are telling lies when they said to Obama

"'Hey, come take our gas and by the way, we don't care if you don't clean things up"
 
Thing is, who is telling the truth? Please do not ever think scientists are not on the payroll of the large corporations. Much the same way they use to say in the 90's that the global warming wasn't true. 20yrs later and some satellite photo's of glaciers half their size, and now the proof is there for us to all see.

In terms of fracking, it does seem there's a fair bit of coverup. One person saying it does all this damage and another person it does absolutely zip.

Which one do you believe?

The errors or more like lies in gasland are well documented. It is a fictional film, just like a lot of green movment properganda, just like all the greenpeace rubbish about nuclear power which have landed them in court around the world.
 
I see fracking as a smash and grab idea, would much prefer increased nuclear production as an alternative
More nuclear is coming, the problem is no Government wants to commit to a high wholesale price for the sector. It's a no win situation.

1. Don't agree the price meaning nuclear doesn't happen - what happens when the lights go out.
or
2. Agree the price and customers complain about the high prices.
 
Yes, outside of oil & gas - but what does that have to do with anything?.

Let's compare like for like, ie companies which use finite resources of the use pollution the UK tax-payer will have to cover the negative externalities for.

I don't read the Guardian either (I don't buy any newspapers), this story was from -

George Osborne reveals 50% tax break for fracking firms
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-50-tax-break-for-fracking-firms-8718711.html

How about other non oil and gas mining? Do they pay supplementary tax too? Or is that out of the comparison? Does it need to be compared against the industry with the highest suppplementary tax?

I agree in part though, in reality no one knows if it's economic yet, the likelyhood is it'll be economic without the reduction in supplimentary tax if it is economic. They didn't need to reduce the tax to get more interest in UK shale.

Edit: one of the reasons the supplimentary tax will have been reduce is because if shale gas takes off it won't be the same as the rest of the oil and gas industry, high risk, high reward, it'll be low risk, low reward, much like most other industries that don't pay supplimentary tax. A whole different model to the rest of the industry.

Fracking is still in it's infancy (for large scale operations) & not enough long term studies of it's potential ecological damage have been done yet (or if they have the studies seem to be private), I'm not saying it should be outright banned or anything - just we should take our time.

Agreed. And I'm guessing most will agree with that. That is why we are taking our time. Just see the time gap and study after quadrillas first frack. We have years before we are fracking hundreds of wells. Plenty of time to study the effects and adjust regulation if need be.

Shale gas requires the constant drilling of holes to get to the gas - geothermal creates the pipes & has a pretty much unlimited supply.

They are very different, just because drilling is involved it doesn't make objections to shale but not geothermal hypocritical.

It's not like people are just "against drilling".

Actually geothermal requires a lot of drilling as well. The area around the initial borehole and track cools down after a couple of years and a new frack needs to be done or a new well drilled elsewhere. The heat transfer from the hot rock to the cold fluid can reduce downhole temperatures in a short time. Iceland, for example, has a lot of experience in this.

So the Pennsylvania Democratic state committee are telling lies when they said to Obama

"'Hey, come take our gas and by the way, we don't care if you don't clean things up"

Show us the EPA reports and the peer reviewed papers then, not blog posts on anti fracking websites... A single blowout is pretty impressive for tens of thousands of wells... Especially as there have been tens of thousands of wells drilled. The point being is the risk is minimal that fracking fluid is going to pollute the ground water through the fracks themselves. It may happen (with so far no clear evidence) but the risk is so minimal it's like being against nuclear energy because a powerplant may blow up or the blades from a turbine fall off and the whole assembly career through a town centre...

There are undeniably poor practices occurring in the US and there is evidence that some of the gas in the water table has occured due to fracking wells (not from fracks themselves), believed to be due to poor casing design. That doesn't mean we will follow them down that path...
 
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I am not a fan of fracking at all. I work in the nuclear industry and I can see it being sidelined by the dash for gas, which to my mind is nothing more than a short term fix and classic money grab for private hands from public resources.

Additionally if you dismiss the potential earth tremors/water table pollution, it still begs the question of where on earth is all this water they need to use going to come from? Due to chronic under investment for decades we struggle to meet domestic water supply in some years, there was talk of a drought last year about April until the rain came and saved us! I can see a point where domestic supply is in direct competition with fracking supply and the fracking demand will outbid domestic demand - high energy prices AND much higher water prices ahoy!
 
The errors or more like lies in gasland are well documented. It is a fictional film, just like a lot of green movment properganda, just like all the greenpeace rubbish about nuclear power which have landed them in court around the world.

You say that, but the corporations behind fracking would quickly go about and be pretty smart about dismissing everything that was said in that movie.

I doubt he's making the entire story up. Perhaps dramatizing certain parts to grab everyone's attention. But there are most likely two sides to the story.

Thing is, the general public, i.e you and I, the common man, are unwise to what really goes on, and common sense needs to play a certain part in assumption. When there's this amount of money to be made, do not be so foolish to believe its all ok.

What we need is a whistleblower in the EPA, a qualified chemist who's NOT on someone's payroll and a geologist who's once again, not being silently paid. Problem is whoever comes up to speak, is shutdown by a louder voice that is corporate funded.

One thing is to ask yourself, would you allow it in your back garden, if you had a family to raise?
 
God, go read up on it. He lies. He even admitted he didnt think it was relevant talking about what happened before the fracking started, or the difference between gas etc. how he can think that isn't rellevent.

It iOS a work of fiction and nothing to do with cover up.

I'll take power reviews reserch over any film that he admitted he left important facts out of to make it seem like it was caused by fracking instead of bacterial methane.

And yes I would allow it in my back garden and nuclear as well. Old bury isn't far away and I would have no issue with either, or windfarm, or them making filton a passenger airport.
Family to raise makes no difference.

The risk is absolutely tiny, I would rather they banned diesel and petrol vehicles. That damges mine and everyone else's health far far more than nuclear, fraking etc.
 
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