Anti-Fracking Protest?!

thedoc46 said:
Thing is, who is telling the truth? Please do not ever think scientists are not on the payroll of the large corporations. Much the same way they use to say in the 90's that the global warming wasn't true. 20yrs later and some satellite photo's of glaciers half their size, and now the proof is there for us to all see.
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Actually, you need to revise what you believe there. There is still no proof of global warming, that's why everyone now talks about "climate change" and very reputable scientists are suggesting we're seeing a natural climate cycle. The famous "hockey stick" graph has been completely discredited by peer-reviewed studies. Some glaciers are retreating while others have advanced massively.

Fact is our science is nowhere near good enough to predict the earth's climate or what the major affecting factors are at all. We think that it is probable human activity is having an effect, but there's still no reliable gauge of what that effect is.
 
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Ok... think I must be going mad. Swear that I had a post in this thread earlier (around Efour's IIRC), but there's no sign of it or a "Post was here, has been deleted by mod X for breaking rule Z".

Men in white coats time?!
 
Just seen this:

Letter from the Chairman of Balcombe Parish Council
Posted on August 12, 2013 by balcombe1

Over next weekend, from 16th to 21st August, the No Dash for Gas protest group is planning to hold their Reclaim the Power action camp somewhere in Balcombe. As yet the location for the camp has not been disclosed and remains a mystery.

There have been reports in the media and on the group’s website that they will be here in response to a call from Balcombe to protect our interests. I have yet to establish who, if anybody, issued this invitation. It most certainly was not the Parish Council, and the local anti-fracking group, NoFibs, has confirmed it was not them.

For perhaps too long I have been sitting on the fence balancing the opinions in our village and tolerating extreme views, but the time has come to speak up.

Whilst villagers have voted that we oppose any future fracking and whilst having respect for those who wish to protest peacefully, there are three issues that arise from the intentions of the No Dash for Gas group.

Firstly will the camp itself be a trespass?

Secondly, and making the first pale into insignificance by comparison, is the promise of direct action on Monday 19th August to stop the drilling by acts of civil disobedience. It is likely that this will include an attempt to enter the site and physically stop the operations, an action that could result in injury to people on either side of the fence and /or to the police.

At a public meeting held last Friday evening the group sought to justify such actions on the grounds that the company that is drilling is acting illegally and that in consequence illegal actions to stop it are justified. This is quite simply not the case. Like it or not, the drilling operation is entirely legal. All the necessary permissions and permits have been sought and are in place.

Thirdly the group seeks to legitimize such actions by saying that whatever is done is in response to Balcombe residents’ call for help. This is just not true.

So here it is. Balcombe strongly opposes any actions which may be taken which involve civil trespass and/or illegal acts. And I further state this, if the No Dash for Gas group is coming here in the full knowledge that it intends to break the law then it should stay away. It is not wanted in Balcombe! It is duly uninvited.

Alison Stevenson

Chairman

Balcombe Parish Council
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marmalade said:
In Excess of 5% of all new fracking rigs leak and due to the nature of geology and the passage of time this rate will rise. As to having 100% control in respect of leaks over the thousands of feet of piping this is impossible. It has been said that the chemicals used resemble washing-up liquid - it would be nice for the Camers family to do their washing up in the chemicals introduced during fracking. These chemicals are highly toxic and once in the ground remain there. In Oz there are enormous problems with our water aquifers once poisoned remain so what do we do? – our water resources are minimal at the best of times and water quality can be a problem. Huge amounts of water are needed for the fracking process. In the US towns are running out of water to to the massive extraction!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU6DJE9h6uc

Four Corners: The Gas Rush
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCMcr27uAg4

Gas Leak! by Four Corners
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayhPNCUoQ7I

In Germany the fracking process has already resulted in pollution and not too far from my land in Niedersachsen We must not forget that there are more lobbyists in Berlin than politicians. Is it to be expected that more care will be taken in the Uk than Germany? Yeh royt!!!
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Got any reports stating those figures as already mentioned a random on YouTube isn't really evidence... I have heard those figures before and would come back wih the suggestion again that it has nothing to do with fracking. Why conventional gas wells don't have the same problem is an important question. If they do then the simple answer is to do a study of UK wells and see what the proportion of UK onshore gas wells leak and how much...

As for the water issue it is stated that in Texas fracking uses 1% of the total water useage although I haven't seen proper reports on that. 1%, when watering lawns and gardens is higher. Doesn't Australia have problems with water poisoning due to the concentration of salt caused by pulling on aquifers too hard, largely due to agricultural needs. Considering there have been very few wells fracked in OZ I'm guessing the problem can't yet be put down to to fracking... ;)

Water useage is a problem though, alongside truck traffic, however properly managed that issue can be reduced like every other time where lots of truck passage and water is needed (from chemical plants to building sites).

As for fracking fluids it's ok, you can find out exactly what was/will be in the fluids in the UK (Cuadrilla have what they used up on their website) as legislation states it needs to be made public.

Edit: I'm sure the EA would have a field day if companies started putting highly toxic materials down wells in this country anyway. The most toxic chemical put down wells in the UK is probably going to be bleach to stop algal/bacterial growth (wasnt used by cuadrilla in the end).
 
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Calabi said:
The only reason gas is cheaper now is because theirs an over supply of gas. Companies are going out of business because its too cheap, or their just running their fracking at a loss until prices go up.

Anyone selling the fracking as cheaper gas prices is a snake oil salesmen.

Theres no guarantee their even going to be able to get the gas or how much exactly. Poland has close to the largest shale gas in Europe, no companies have been able to get it yet.

Its a stupid gamble to me, too many maybes and dont knows. We can have all the energy we need guaranteed to beyond a hundred years or more with other methods.
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The gamble is being made by private companies so it's not something that should affect the UK as a whole if it goes wrong, just a few shareholders (and potentially pensions companies if they invest heavily).
 
Fracking in this country will do absolutely nothing for energy security as it will be sold on the open market to the highest bidder.

As for the protesters, the second they break the law, lock them up.
 
I want to know which moron came up with the name fracking, for the process. Its a complete PR nightmare that only gets more moronic when you learn the name of the company is caudrilla.

CAUDRILLA IS COMING TO FRACK YOUR COUNTRYSIDE!

its hysterical.
 
alx said:
Why? There's already multiple ways it can be done but it's just never going to be an efficient process. Hydrogen isn't a fuel, it's an energy carrier and hence really is a waste of time except for very niche uses - http://phys.org/news85074285.html
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Nothing wrong with being an energy carrier! That is, after all, only what electricity is! :D

You just need to do it properly! :p

Oh, And yes, (And on this I agree with your link, despite mine, which I think also gets it wrong!) the idea of using high pressure/liquid Hydrogen to fuel vehicles is a nonsense.

It is a much better idea to use the (Non-Fossil) Hydrogen to sweeten existing fossil fuels with the intention that, eventually, one might synthesise them entirely directly using atmospheric carbon.

Room temperature liquid Hydrocarbons (either as-is or under slight pressure such as with LPG) are actually a damn good way of powering small mobile power systems, and I don't really see that changing any time soon!
 
So here it is. Balcombe strongly opposes any actions which may be taken which involve civil trespass and/or illegal acts. And I further state this, if the No Dash for Gas group is coming here in the full knowledge that it intends to break the law then it should stay away. It is not wanted in Balcombe! It is duly uninvited.
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This. People in the local area don't want them here protesting, saying they are here for the people of Balcombe, or Sussex or whatever is simply rubbish, they are here to protest for protesting sake, same mob were stopping the local bypass a few week back and gypsies rights the week before.
 
peige said:
This. People in the local area don't want them here protesting, saying they are here for the people of Balcombe, or Sussex or whatever is simply rubbish, they are here to protest for protesting sake, same mob were stopping the local bypass a few week back and gypsies rights the week before.
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This!

Is there a "Pro Fracking " demo I can go on?!

I am a bit tied up at the moment but if I have enough notice I am happy to make myself available! :D
 
altus said:
Well fracking is not a new method anyway..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ower-21-000-homes-day--complaints-locals.html

The usual suspect rent a mob see anything that does not involve a horse and cart as a planet killer.
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The horse and cart are evil, do you have any idea of the amount of pollution you create making a horse shoe via a traditional forge (the only way we will be making them if the "antis"* have their way), let alone the damage the cart does to the fields, or the amount of mess the horses create...(IIRC cities like NY had major health issues due to the number of horses, both in direct waste and the dead ones, before the infernal combustion engine).

There may well be legitimate concerns with frakking, but the protesters are all too often idiots and often seem to be there more because it's a "safe" way to create a mess, destroy property and create a major public disturbance without too much risk of being arrested than because they actually know/really care about the issue they are protesting.


*I use the term "antis" rather than "anti fracking", as they seem to be anti fracking, anti wind power (it's unsightly/noisy/endangers the wildlife), anti nuclear (it's radioactive, we'll all be glowing in the dark), anti solar (it takes up too much space), anti tidal barrage, anti coal, anti gas, and anti hydroelectric dam (it floods areas).
 
deuse said:
A waste of time now but maybe not next year. We could put more into hydrogen, fuel cells. Well the US has put up $1 billion to start it off.

The thing is if another country cracks it first then we will have to pay loads to get it.
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But you can't break the laws of physics, it will always be energy intensive to produce hydrogen.

I don't see the point expending energy/electricity to produce hydrogen which then has to be transported via a new infrastructure system to then be used in fuel cells to produce electricity.

Why not just use electricity straight off the bat and invest in battery technology?
 
deuse said:
A waste of time now but maybe not next year. We could put more into hydrogen, fuel cells. Well the US has put up $1 billion to start it off.

The thing is if another country cracks it first then we will have to pay loads to get it.
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Orionaut said:
Nothing wrong with being an energy carrier! That is, after all, only what electricity is! :D

You just need to do it properly! :p

Oh, And yes, (And on this I agree with your link, despite mine, which I think also gets it wrong!) the idea of using high pressure/liquid Hydrogen to fuel vehicles is a nonsense.

It is a much better idea to use the (Non-Fossil) Hydrogen to sweeten existing fossil fuels with the intention that, eventually, one might synthesise them entirely directly using atmospheric carbon.

Room temperature liquid Hydrocarbons (either as-is or under slight pressure such as with LPG) are actually a damn good way of powering small mobile power systems, and I don't really see that changing any time soon!
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I just really don't see the point in replacing electricity with hydrogen as an energy carrier, seems a complete waste of time and seems very inefficient. Just use electricity and bypass hydrogen.
 
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