Or you need to stop being such a bloody nonce bucket.
I've got to agree, the stuff you've been breathing in from the cars passing you will be doing a lot more damage!
Spot on
NHS stop-smoking service 'a success'
- Thread starter CaNsA
- Start date
Spot on
Some decent opinions in this thread, and you can spot the uninformed posts a mile off...
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned that the NHS are not pushing something that has 0 proven fatalities, costs a lot less than £5k pp and proven health benefits onto smokers who want to quit/cut down.
Add that £5k pp to the cost of treating illnesses attributed to smoking and you have a lot of cost that can be avoided.
Sure there is the "we dont know the long term effects" argument, but we do know the long and short term effects of smoking.
The gov are crapping it about losing so much money from lost tax revenue on tobacco and thats the main reason they are not embracing e-cigs and vaping.
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned that the NHS are not pushing something that has 0 proven fatalities, costs a lot less than £5k pp and proven health benefits onto smokers who want to quit/cut down.
Add that £5k pp to the cost of treating illnesses attributed to smoking and you have a lot of cost that can be avoided.
Sure there is the "we dont know the long term effects" argument, but we do know the long and short term effects of smoking.
The gov are crapping it about losing so much money from lost tax revenue on tobacco and thats the main reason they are not embracing e-cigs and vaping.
it is very telling, i imagine the tobacco lobby are doing their nut trying to stop e-cigs.
Even if in 15 years time arms and legs start to fall off the bodies of vapers, imagine how much money could be saved during those 15 years.
Not taking inflation into account, £84m a year for 15 years is £1260000000.
Thats a nice chunk of debt wiped off the slate.
Not taking inflation into account, £84m a year for 15 years is £1260000000.
Thats a nice chunk of debt wiped off the slate.
Soldato
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They're targeting it under a social manipulation model now -- namely "re-normalisation".
So, as it looks like smoking, they're attempting further bans because they believe it will re-normalise the act of smoking after they've successfully made tobacco users all but social pariahs in all walks of life. They do this through misinformation so that joe public, who can't be bothered to do his own research, buys straight into the "if it looks like smoking, it's as bad as smoking" ignorant conclusions.
The logic is so backward and twisted that it's astounding... you know, maybe put some effort into normalising vaping -- using resources to actually cement the distinction with the public. Step 1: Can you smell smoke? Did you even notice someone was doing it nearby until you happened to see a cloud? No?
Then they probably aren't smoking.
A child could tell you that. Instead, however, governments worldwide with their pockets full of brown envelopes courtesy of an incestuous racket of health providers, tobbaco manufacturers and so-called harm prevention groups that are all so intertwined in their mission to keep each other funded to the gills through treatment over cure are running scared and swinging the ban hammer in the face of those warning them of the consequences.
It's a sad state of affairs, not only medically and scientifically -- but socially. You don't have to like that someone vapes, but it would only be common sense to see the benefit of them choosing that over the proven death sentence of tobacco. That doesn't even bring into account the passive factor of smoking, and it has already been documented in multiple published, peer-reviewed, studies that vaping poses absolutely no passive threat to bystanders whatsoever.
The documents are out there, but the blinkered politicians are counting on the general public not to seek them out while they wage their own campaign of deception and propaganda -- which will undoubtedly end up with a status quo between the current "smoking is a disgraceful and disgusting habit" and "Well, if you're going to quit smoking, why not just stop nicotine entirely? You're an idiot if you vape" -- a statement so blinkered and self-righteous that it's stomach-churning to think many opinions are already turning that way.
Let them tell you how to think, and watch as millions die to fill their pockets.
You are spot on with that.
You missed the "treatment produces more profit than curing" bit though.
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E-cigs don't stink, and their users don't stink.
That alone is good enough for me!
I find myself getting more and more agitated when people light up at bus stops or if I get caught walking behind a fast walking smoker.
That alone is good enough for me!
I find myself getting more and more agitated when people light up at bus stops or if I get caught walking behind a fast walking smoker.
Soldato
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Indeed. Ultimately,that's the grand plan that is now in very real jeopardy due to vaping. Why cure people of ailments when you can continue to make institutions and individuals pay for a lifetime of expensive, ongoing treatments? The sick are literally cattle to them -- cash cows, nothing more.
And if they aren't sick, then there's no money coming in.
You can find all kinds of links between board members of supposed health conglomerates, pharmaceutical manufacturers, anti-smoking lobbies and tobacco companies. The same people are behind mouthpieces telling you to stay away from tobacco with one hand, while depending on their profits from that same thing in the other -- meanwhile their mate in the corner of the room is more than willing to charge you a fortune to take away the daily pain of your cancerous flesh. Now that something has taken the world by surprise, and storm, that offers a very real and safe(r) alternative, they're dropping nuggets in their pants and scrambling the only way they know how to make it go away: Social manipulation, campaigns of deception and soft-target distractions to quietly get their competitors legislated out of existence. It's insidious, disgusting, and consistently depressing that public attitude actually sways with them so easily.
They don't give a damn about you, your family, or anyone you care about. They want you sick, but they want you alive -- just long enough to squeeze as much as they can from your wallet. Demonising the very thing that medical journals such as The Lancet have already revealed will undoubtedly save countless lives the world over, without looking any deeper into it, should already be enough to tell anyone of stable mind that something is very, very amiss.
Honestly, whether you like the faint smell of blueberries in the air nearby while you're having a coffee is of minimal concern in the face of a tidal wave of death that could very easily be stopped, at little impact to the public purse. Yet they'd rather you swap it around. I'd beseech anyone to open their eyes and refuse to fall into the trap that's already being set and tweaked in this regard.
As Castiel already mentioned, and I said in my previous post, you don't have to like it, but dear God at least be able to see the public and health benefits. Hate smoking? Then embrace vaping as the positive alternative than it is. To help kill it through dictated opinions is to trounce your very own ideals, possibly without even realising it.
Associate
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But we'd have to make up the £181,500,000,000 lost tax revenue from tobacco (that's £181.5 billion).
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But then how much more could be spent if it does turn out vaping has unknown consequences? Swings and roundabouts really if you ask me. Plus, as above, loss in tax revenues.
Associate
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As I posted above we'd be generating more dept, not less - Tobacco is very heavily taxed and generates a huge amount of revenue, considerably more per year than what it costs in healthcare I believe.
1. If they did I'd probably just start smoking again to be honest
2. The supposed justification on huge smoking taxation is to pay the NHS bills usually associated with smokers
Vaping is not much different to using a nicotine inhalator, which you can get on the NHS. So it is highly unlikely that there would be any long term effects from it.
Do you not think it's a good idea to pick the lesser of 2 evils?
I wonder what other the other costs, outside of the NHS, of smoking are...
Tax revenue from tobacco
http://www.the-tma.org.uk/tma-publications-research/facts-figures/tax-revenue-from-tobacco/
£12.1 billion last year....
No matter how you want to look at it, it is for the greater good that e-cigs should be actively pushed by the NHS.
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Sorry next time ill stand to the side and let you pass whilst blowing smoke in your face as you pass by me
But seriously ive been vaping now for about a month, invested a lot of money into the kit i have and i prefer it over smoking. I still have the odd ciggy now and again but majority of the time i vape inside and outside. In fact my missus has seen a real improvement in my health and some of the juices i have when vaping give off a real nice smell which she loves...best thing is no smokers breath so have saved myself a ton of money on cigs and chewing gum
Its a shame that the govt are looking into ways to tax us vapers or make it more difficult for us to vape. Luckily for me most of the places i go to allow me to vape inside their premises as long as they know its just vapour rather than smoke.
/me blows a huge ring of vapour around
Associate
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Oh morally I agree entirely, we should push anything that's proven to help people break away from smoking and is safe to use. I'd be dubious about the accuracy of those figures though seeing as they're published by an anti-smoking organisation, and I'm not sure a lot of them would equate to lost taxes.
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For the Greater Good
Do you live in a small village known for it's gardens
Like anything the Gov\EU will make something up and tax it like they do with everything else.
