Bedroom tax

[CREATIVE!11]

At least the rest of us are honest and can admit we put ourselves first and don't live in a judgemental la la land like yourself. If I was rich and my family was well looked, my friends were well looked after and we had no chance of suffering then I would happily spend most spare money on charity and helping others out. But I won't do this at the expense of myself and my family. But at least I am honest enough (and most others on here) to admit it unlike you.

Troof dat.

 

[fez]

At least the rest of us are honest and can admit we put ourselves first and don't live in a judgemental la la land like yourself. If I was rich and my family was well looked, my friends were well looked after and we had no chance of suffering then I would happily spend most spare money on charity and helping others out. But I won't do this at the expense of myself and my family. But at least I am honest enough (and most others on here) to admit it unlike you.

You are welcome to come back and judge when you start acting on what you preach. One more time... Hypocrite.

Its no worse than the other side of the argument where people think that most people on benefits are hard working good people who have just been screwed by the system. Most people on benefits in this country are there due to their own decisions over the course of their life.

If you have very few skills, don't be surprised if you are finding it hard to get a job. If you think that having children is a career and that you should be propped up by the government, don't be surprised when you find you are struggling to make ends meet whilst not part of a working family.

Any issue like this is too hard to debate over the internet and results in generalisations, that doesn't mean that everyone is either on one side or the other, just more on one side than the other.

 

[LeeUK]

Taxes are generated to pay for the needs of society. Government is not some corporate company making money for share holders.

Although that is what a Tory Government wants...

 

[fez]

Taxes are generated to pay for the needs of society. Government is not some corporate company making money for share holders.

Although that is what a Tory Government wants...

Exactly, the needs not the wants. If the government didn't waste so much money then we would be able to put it to use in the right areas. Propping up a failing welfare system and health service is not helping.

This is what scares me about politics in a democracy. 10 minutes after a new government is elected, all the idiots pop up saying "why haven't you fixed everything, why am I not as rich as I was under labours cluster ****".

A new government has to deal with the mess left by the previous one and sometimes even deeper issues whilst at the same time trying to understand the mess in the first place.

We lived on borrowed money and almost everyone had way more than they deserved or earned because the big pot of borrowed money kept on going. Now that we are having to pay for that, people still think the base line is where labour put it. Its not, its much lower and the sooner people realise that the happier they will be.

People need to start taking responsibility for their decisions and actions and the subsequent consequences. I have zero sympathy for the family with 3 children who only just kept their head above water while the state propped them up. Your choice, your consequences.

 

[scorza]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...cy-hardship-handouts-for-tenants-8621666.html

335% increase in people applying for hardship funds since the bedroom tax was introduced.

 

[Dolph]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...cy-hardship-handouts-for-tenants-8621666.html

335% increase in people applying for hardship funds since the bedroom tax was introduced.

Have the claimants been checked to ensure they are in no way responsible for the need to claim due to their spending choices?

 

[Freakbro]

Lol @ people like you who scream and whine and moan about the hard lot of people elsewhere in the world whilst living a good life themselves.

Haha, you really are a prat, please point out where I scream, whine and moan...or where I just said to spare a thought to how others live and appreciate what we have rather than complain about how hard life is getting for us...which it really isn't.

<other rubbish about being a hypocrite and judgemental>.

I was just laughing at you, did I make judgement and say we shouldn't have anything or give it all away, you are making major (incorrect) assumptions. But don't let the fact you're reading what you want to see rather than anything I said get in the way of your little rant

At least the rest of us are honest and can admit we put ourselves first and don't live in a judgemental la la land like yourself.

And that is the funniest sentence of all, you are not judgemental?

 

[CREATIVE!11]

 

[No1newts]

Exactly, the needs not the wants. If the government didn't waste so much money then we would be able to put it to use in the right areas. Propping up a failing welfare system and health service is not helping.

This is what scares me about politics in a democracy. 10 minutes after a new government is elected, all the idiots pop up saying "why haven't you fixed everything, why am I not as rich as I was under labours cluster ****".

A new government has to deal with the mess left by the previous one and sometimes even deeper issues whilst at the same time trying to understand the mess in the first place.

We lived on borrowed money and almost everyone had way more than they deserved or earned because the big pot of borrowed money kept on going. Now that we are having to pay for that, people still think the base line is where labour put it. Its not, its much lower and the sooner people realise that the happier they will be.

People need to start taking responsibility for their decisions and actions and the subsequent consequences. I have zero sympathy for the family with 3 children who only just kept their head above water while the state propped them up. Your choice, your consequences.

Good post.

Haha, you really are a prat, please point out where I scream, whine and moan...or where I just said to spare a thought to how others live and appreciate what we have rather than complain about how hard life is getting for us...which it really isn't.

I was just laughing at you, did I make judgement and say we shouldn't have anything or give it all away, you are making major (incorrect) assumptions. But don't let the fact you're reading what you want to see rather than anything I said get in the way of your little rant

Perhaps you got some directed flak from the annoyance at people who genuinely act like that, though if you didn't believe the rubbish you spouted you wouldn't have came out with in the first place.

If life isn't getting more financially difficult for you then you are indeed lucky, or extremely wealthy. I also spare a thought for those in the world, many thougts, but it is pointless to try and benchmark a living standard over here against a living standard over there. Whilst it would be great thing if third world living standards improved to what we have I cannot effect that, and nor am I going to accept failing living standards for myself/children simply because I have it better than someone living in (for example) Kenya. It is niavete or stupidity (or both) to live your life like that.

And that is the funniest sentence of all, you are not judgemental?

Fair point on that

 

[atpbx]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...cy-hardship-handouts-for-tenants-8621666.html

335% increase in people applying for hardship funds since the bedroom tax was introduced.

Theres no such thing as a bedroom tax.

People keep saying it, it doesnt make it true.

 

[Castiel]

Have the claimants been checked to ensure they are in no way responsible for the need to claim due to their spending choices?

This. It is an easy excuse to claim for extra assistance.

 

[Biohazard]

As for those who seemed to love to trivialise the inevitable, here it comes;

Coincidental mistakes

Yesterday the Daily Record led with a front-page splash about Labour-controlled South Lanarkshire council threatening to evict a tenant over bedroom tax arrears. Today the paper carries a profuse apology from the council’s leader Eddie McAvoy insisting that the letters were sent in error, although the recipient was unconvinced:

“The council last night hand delivered a letter of apology to Angela. But she said: “I don’t believe a mistake was made in the first place and it is only because I appeared in the Record that the council have backed down.””

The Record was deeply sceptical too, issuing a sternly-worded rebuke to the council in an editorial leader column which also pointed out other unsightly goings-on in the “long-time Labour fiefdom”.

We must presume that rogue elements in Labour are at fault, then.

Except, what’s this we see today in NORTH Lanarkshire?

The Black Triangle campaign reports that “The tenant is a single man who has suffered from mental health problems for most of his life. He had NO arrears until the bedroom tax was implemented. He has asked for a move to a smaller house but there is no suitable accommodation available for him.”

As they say on the internet – two’s a coincidence, three’s a trend. We’ll be watching closely for any more Labour councils trying to kick poor and vulnerable people onto the streets barely a month after the iniquitous tax – imposed on social tenants by the Conservative/Lib Dem coalition after being introduced for private renters by the previous Labour government – was introduced. Do let us know if you hear of any, readers.

Introduced by the Tories, enthousiastically applied by Labour.

Only SNP councils have a policy of no evictions.

Does Labour have the intellectual capacity to follow suit? Answers on the back of a postcard please.

 

[Biohazard]

Have the claimants been checked to ensure they are in no way responsible for the need to claim due to their spending choices?

Can you show an example of, or demostrate a system that can identify this?

Why do you presume that spending choices are a primary driver in people needing state support?

 

[Biohazard]

Exclusive - Charity hopes UN will shine global spotlight on hated Bedroom Tax

A leading charity has expressed its hope that a visit by a UN watchdog investigating the hated Bedroom Tax, will shine a "global spotlight" on the legislation and force Westminster to scrap it.

The controversial Bedroom Tax is being investigated by United Nations expert Raquel Rolnik who is charged with assessing whether member states have delivered on the right to adequate housing. During her visit Ms Rolnik will hear from those affected in Scotland and the rest of the UK.

Her visit will take in Edinburgh and Glasgow where she will meet with government officials, NGOs, housing associations and individuals affected by it.

Benefit cuts imposed due to the Bedroom Tax have already led to some disabled people in Scotland going without basic essentials such as food, heating and clothes, according to Capability Scotland.

Richard Hamer, Director of External Affairs, at the charity said he hoped the UN watchdog would take this into account and help scrap the tax.

He said: "Capability Scotland hopes that when Raquel Rolnik is in Scotland she will take the opportunity to speak to the many disabled Scots who have been affected by 'bedroom tax'.

"A recent Capability Scotland survey showed that disabled people in Scotland are being forced to go without essentials such as food, heating and clothing to make up for the shortfall in benefits income caused by the tax.

"There is no doubt that disabled people have been disproportionally affected by the 'bedroom tax' and Capability Scotland is currently in discussion with legal experts to see whether it is possible to raise a legal challenge against it in Scotland.

"We welcome the investigation by the United Nations as there is no doubt that 'bedroom tax' is impacting greatly on disabled people's human right to enjoy an acceptable standard of living in a home that meets their needs. Hopefully this visit will shine a global spotlight on the issue and provide further evidence to the UK Government that they need to abandon this ludicrous 'tax' once and for all."

SNP MSP Linda Fabiani, who was a former Director of East Kilbride Housing Association, said she hoped the visit will also show the world the way Scotland is being treated by Westminster.

"I am glad that the UN representative is visiting Scotland, even if that does no more than just raise awareness internationally of the way Scotland is treated by the Westminster Government. As so often happens, a policy designed to tackle the overheated economy in the South East of England, is implemented here." She told Newsnet Scotland.

The United Nations Special Rapporteur's inspection begins tomorrow and will finish on the 11th September. Ms Rolnik will assess the policies and programmes for social housing, affordability, discrimination and other issues related to the right to adequate housing.

In a statement, she said: "The UK has voiced its commitment to human rights on repeated occasions, and this mission will give me an opportunity to assess in-depth to what extend adequate housing, as one central aspect of the right to an adequate standard of living, is at the core of this commitment."

Ms Fabiani said everyone in Scotland had a right to a spare room and expressed her own hopes that the UN expert recognises how unfair the legislation is.

She added: "We have a different ethos in Scotland when it comes to what gets labelled 'social housing' – Councils and Housing Associations in Scotland have built homes for life. Not only do we not have one-bed roomed properties available to move people too, we recognise that someone in a rented property is just as entitled to a 'spare room' as anyone else.

"It angers me greatly that the likes of Ian Duncan Smith or Lord Freud reckon that someone can pay rent for decades, and then if they hit hard times be told that they are no longer entitled to a bit of help to stay in their home. And then of course there is the blatant discrimination against those with disabilities.

"I sincerely hope that the UN rep will recognise the inherent discrimination and unfairness of the bedroom tax when assessing the policies and programmes for social housing. I hope that she will recognise that Scotland's particular circumstances are such that tenants here are facing particular hardship. Surely she will find against this inflexible and uncaring Conservative and Liberal Democrat UK Government." She said.

Councils are able to cut the housing benefit of people with a spare bedroom by 14 per cent and 25 per cent for those with at least two spare bedrooms.

Newsnet Scotland recently reported on severely disabled single Mum of two, Lorraine Fraser, 46, who is facing eviction because she owes £248 to Labour run North Lanarkshire Council.

And in a letter to the Herald this week housing associations across the west of Scotland joined forces to call on all political parties to mobilise against the Bedroom Tax.

It is estimated 80,000 households in Scotland are affected by the bedroom tax with the average loss per household of £620 a year.

This should be interesting.

 

[dowie]

Lol at the people bemoaning how 'hard' their lives are and/or becoming in one of the wealthiest most privileged societies in the world...

Just spare one thought upon the situations of the millions of others working in abject poverty to sustain our way of life and realise how good we have it.

this really

'poverty' in the UK is only really relative poverty - the basics of food, shelter, healthcare are available to everyone

there will always be people at the bottom of the pile and not everyone has the same start in life but we're all responsible for the various life choices we make

 

[kissenger]

this really

'poverty' in the UK is only really relative poverty - the basics of food, shelter, healthcare are available to everyone

there will always be people at the bottom of the pile and not everyone has the same start in life but we're all responsible for the various life choices we make

Actually there's quite a lot of people who don't have the basics of food and shelter in this country, as demonstrated by the massive rise in food bank usage, but that's kind of besides the point.

I think what a lot of people in this thread are missing relates to the 'personal responsibility' point you made. In the past we have had a much better economic situation than we've currently got. At the moment unemployment is very high, wages are stagnating and taxes on income are also quite high by historical standards. You can't put all that down to 'personal responsibility'. In the past, governments made a point of guaranteeing full employment. That everybody who wants a job, gets one. That isn't the case anymore. Likewise, in the past large corporations paid taxes. Nowadays they pay virtually none, so it's working and middle class people on modest incomes who can't afford a flash accountant who pick up the slack. Same thing with incomes: in the past, more of what companies earned went on wages. Now way more of it goes towards company profits, which in general are at record highs. That's partly down to the effects of a long period of high unemployment (it's simple economics to know that unemployment tilts the balance of power in favour of employers) and the decline of trade unions (which itself is partly down to the decline of manufacturing in the west).

So it's not really good enough to blame the ordinary man or woman on the street for their situation when you've got this deeper underlying changes which are having a much bigger effect than 'personal responsibility' does. Yeah people should do the right thing whenever they can and should take some responsibility, but you also have to take into account that the economic environment ordinary people are dealing with is objectively harsher than it's been since WWII.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

And yet if you examine these people using the food bank, I'd wager many of them have luxury items such as a television, gaming console, cigarettes, alcohol and so forth.

 

[elmarko]

this really

'poverty' in the UK is only really relative poverty - the basics of food, shelter, healthcare are available to everyone

there will always be people at the bottom of the pile and not everyone has the same start in life but we're all responsible for the various life choices we make

You clearly have no idea about the serious social consequences of relative poverty we all pay for either directly or indirectly.

Believe it or not, being poor in a rich country isn't made easier by being better off than poor people in a poor country.

We compare our standing of living to that of our peers.

The impact of this is seen in our crime rates, mental health problems, depression, obesity/health issues, drug dependency & long term unemployment (lack of self belief/reduced self-esteem) - but hey, let's play make believe & pretend these things are not intrinsically connected.

And yet if you examine these people using the food bank, I'd wager many of them have luxury items such as a television, gaming console, cigarettes, alcohol and so forth.

Based on what exactly?.

 

[atpbx]

Based on what exactly?.

I personally dont view the numbers of people using the foodbanks of any indication of anything other than more people are going to food banks.

Given the lengths people will go to to get something for nothing I wouldnt find it all surprising if a good number of people turning up were perfectly able to afford to feed themselves.

A news piece a couple of weeks ago said there were people from all walks of life turning up at the food bank now, Police, Nurses etc etc.

I flat out refuse to believe that they would be in a position not to be able to feed themselves through anything other than their own fault.

 

[elmarko]

I personally dont view the numbers of people using the foodbanks of any indication of anything other than more people are going to food banks.

Given the lengths people will go to to get something for nothing I wouldnt find it all surprising if a good number of people turning up were perfectly able to afford to feed themselves.

A news piece a couple of weeks ago said there were people from all walks of life turning up at the food bank now, Police, Nurses etc etc.

I flat out refuse to believe that they would be in a position not to be able to feed themselves through anything other than their own fault.

So nothing then.