Bought a bit of a turkey.. :/
- Thread starter Zaphan58
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Really? Possibly for a dealer, but if it's illegal, there are one hell of a lot of classic car sellers breaking the law selling projects then.
If you're a private seller this really doesn't apply. Firstly sold as seen goes without saying - that's how the law works here - and secondly, you're not presumed to be 'mechanically minded' or to know about faults.
If the car is unroadworthy for reasons your average Joe is expected to know about (e.g. tyres) then it's still not illegal to sell the car - although clearly it is illegal to knowingly drive it on the road while unroadworthy, which applies in any case.
No rule about selling an unroadworthy car - not as a private sale anyway, and even from a dealer if it is clearly sold as such and not misrepresented (though obviously very few will be, and those that are will have to be trailered)
If you're a private seller this really doesn't apply. Firstly sold as seen goes without saying - that's how the law works here - and secondly, you're not presumed to be 'mechanically minded' or to know about faults.
If the car is unroadworthy for reasons your average Joe is expected to know about (e.g. tyres) then it's still not illegal to sell the car - although clearly it is illegal to knowingly drive it on the road while unroadworthy, which applies in any case.
No rule about selling an unroadworthy car - not as a private sale anyway, and even from a dealer if it is clearly sold as such and not misrepresented (though obviously very few will be, and those that are will have to be trailered)
You might want to think again there then....
The Road Traffic Act makes it illegal for anyone to sell a car that is not roadworthy. This applies equally to private sellers and car dealers.
There are three main criteria that need to be look at when buying privately...
legal terms that cover a private sale contract are:
the seller must have the right to sell the car
the vehicle should match the description given by the seller
the car must be roadworthy - it is a criminal offence to sell an unroadworthy car and an MOT certificate from a test several months ago is no guarantee that the car is roadworthy today.
An Engine management light however is NOT something that makes a car unroadworthy..
Again the main "clause" if you like, that covers what is and what is not classed as roadworthy is..
A vehicle is unroadworthy if using it would cause danger to the driver, passengers, other road users or pedestrians.
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You call it "spares or repair".
If the car is being sold for spares or repair, it's not an offence if it's unroadworthy. It is the seller’s responsibility to make you fully aware that the car you're buying isn't for use on the road.
If you buy a car that's not for use on the road, the seller should ask you to sign an agreement saying this.
Soldato
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How about if the seller is unaware of the issues, and is as clueless as the buyer?
And you might want to take another look at the Road Traffic Act before making incorrect assertions. The particular section relating to the selling of unroadworthy vehicles has a very clear and concise exceptions list
RTA said:
This says it is completely legal to sell an unroadworthy vehicle, provided the vehicle isn't going to be used on the roads in GB, or that the buyer is made fully aware of the state of the vehicle.
'Don't sell unsafe vehicles if you're going to drive them in our country, but elsewhere is fine!'
I am not technically minded at all nor do I know the basic details about what's stored on the ECU but I thought I'd throw this out there anyway...
Would it not be stored on the ECU's memory when the EML first came on? And would it not be possible to show that this came on before the MOT took place? And perhaps if he paid to have it put through another MOT for the mechanic to say "No way is this passing, it's got this wrong, that wrong, and this wrong all to do with the engine" then it would kind of put 2+2 together to the court that if the lights came on before the previous MOT took place then the issues were still there and therefore it shouldn't have passed originally?
But like I said, I'm just speculating. Like others have mentioned it might even pass the MOT with an EML on and I suppose the actual crime here is removing the bulbs to disguise it as opposed to there being a fault with the car.
Would it not be stored on the ECU's memory when the EML first came on? And would it not be possible to show that this came on before the MOT took place? And perhaps if he paid to have it put through another MOT for the mechanic to say "No way is this passing, it's got this wrong, that wrong, and this wrong all to do with the engine" then it would kind of put 2+2 together to the court that if the lights came on before the previous MOT took place then the issues were still there and therefore it shouldn't have passed originally?
But like I said, I'm just speculating. Like others have mentioned it might even pass the MOT with an EML on and I suppose the actual crime here is removing the bulbs to disguise it as opposed to there being a fault with the car.
'Don't sell unsafe vehicles if you're going to drive them in our country, but elsewhere is fine!'
Not quite, you'd be quite entitled to drive an unroadworthy car in the UK on roads/areas that the RTA does not apply. e.g. like farmers that have absolutely hanging 4x4s with no MOT or VED etc. and rarely much in the way of brakes but which are only used for driving around their farmland.
Take it up with both the AA and the CAB than as that was an exact copy and paste from their websites
PROVIDED THE VEHICLE ISN'T GOING TO BE USED ON THE ROADS IN GB...
Didn't I just say there was an expemption to that.
It has to be sold as SPARES OR REPAIRS..
This has no correlation to the OP as it wasn't sold as spares or repairs and was sold to be used on the road.
As for EML info in the ECU then yes, the ECU will have a record of how many miles since the light came on, no time stamp though, but due to the fact the car has had an MOT in the last two weeks the mileage can be verified.
http://www.northlincs.gov.uk/environment/tradingstandards/businessadvice/unroadworthyvehicles/
Can be sold if the person buying the car is informed that it is not roadworthy, and does not drive it on the road away from the sale, etc. Clearly this doesn't apply in the OP's case but that wasn't my point.
This isn't completely true, there are exceptions, you'd know this if you read the RTA properly instead of just seeing one little bit and ignoring the stuff around it so you can jump into the thread with your non-point.
Could you point to the part of the Road Traffic Act that states this please, I seem to have missed it?
Awww shame, I was hoping you'd dig that hole a little deeper
Obviously my post filled with comment about ignoring stuff and not reading things didn't click?
