Cycling... stay aware at junctions even when you are tired.

Scougar · 11 Sep 2013 at 12:18

Just putting this up as a reminder for people, as I don't really make that many mistakes when cycling.

Two days ago I was doing my usual route, and was coming up to a junction with a left turn off the main road. I saw a cyclist in front of me, so pedaled to see if I could catch him a little (as you do ;-)

). He turned off at the junction ahead of me, and the line of cars beside me looked to be carrying on. I put my head down (tired) for a second, and completely forgot my usual routine of not passing a junction with a car beside me (in case they forget to put on their indicator and it gives me a chance to brake.).

Before I knew it, the car beside me had tooted his horn and me, and I realised he was trying to turn left. Now of course, as mentioned I'd not looked for his indicator as I had my head down, and completely gone against my normal routine of staying safe, and I got caught out having left the car beside me.

Of course, I waved and mouthed an apology to the gent as it was totally my fault, but I could easily have been across his bonnet.

Stay focused even when you are tired guys, it only takes a few seconds of not thinking about positioning to get you in trouble.

james_2k · 11 Sep 2013 at 12:20

same for car driving really. lots of bikes on the road i drive to work. and a lot of them are not exactly wearing hi viz gear.

+1

Murf · 11 Sep 2013 at 13:38

The left hook at a set of lights, and a car pulling out from the left at a junction\roundabout are the two things I am really wary of on a bike.

ScottehBotteh · 11 Sep 2013 at 14:23

ScottehBotteh · 11 Sep 2013 at 14:24

Don't undertake and Do take the middle of the lane at a junction surely :confused:

Gambisk · 11 Sep 2013 at 14:30

Glad you avoided anything nasty OP, it scares me how much a moments lapse can cost you when you are cycling on the roads. I've nearly been hit a few times just from being complacent or a bit tired.

nydryl · 11 Sep 2013 at 14:52

I was tired the other month and crossing at a fairly quiet roundabout at crossroads. Nothing coming from the right so I danced across and was almost taken out by a car that was coming from the opposite direction but going all the way around to their third exit. Was totally my fault, felt quite lucky the driver reacted quickly and didn't slam into my side, and happened almost certainly because I was shattered and not thinking properly. I was furious with myself. Sharpened me up again though.

Mr-White · 11 Sep 2013 at 16:01

I still can't work out why people would want to cycle on the roads, it's horrible and all the cars hate you.

MW

platypus · 11 Sep 2013 at 16:15

Not everyone hates you, but it just takes one narrow minded ****** to kill you.

nydryl · 11 Sep 2013 at 16:30

And it's infinitely less horrible than cycling on pavements.

fez · 12 Sep 2013 at 00:27

This is usually when I feel most vulnerable on a bike. The number of cyclists I see coming up to junctions passing all the cars on the inside scares me. I usually stop with the traffic because I know that a lot of drivers simply won't look down their inside when going left.

Its even worse when there is a wishbone join and cars are not turning so much as following onto the single road part and you can easily get squeezed into the curb. I tend to ride very defensively because no matter whos fault it is, I will come off worse.

platypus · 12 Sep 2013 at 08:16

That's all you have to do. Ride defensively and take up the space of a car. Why all cyclists don't do it at junctions I don't know. I wish more people would do the bike mobility training.

arknor · 12 Sep 2013 at 08:26

platypus said:
That's all you have to do. Ride defensively and take up the space of a car. Why all cyclists don't do it at junctions I don't know. I wish more people would do the bike mobility training.

yea I always do that and at traffic lights unless I'm first anyway I'll just slot in the queue and stop in the middle of the lane.

I can easily tell where the cars in front are going and anyone behind cant get past. you should be as fast as a car to about 20mph anyway so should not be slowing anyone down until it's safe to let them past.
on 20mph roads in the city centre I'll just drive down the side of the road to the front if there's room and then ride a few miles above the speed limit to put a bit of space between me and the cars behind.

Back when I wasn't so confident on the roads I used to wait until the cars had gone past which doesn't really cost you much time so I don't know why people would even risk driving where someone could turn into you.

a lot of people also don't indicate to turn where I live which is annoying or they don't start indicating until they are already turning anyway..... so you never know until the last second

Lethal` · 12 Sep 2013 at 21:25

There's a hill I loved to cycle down as you could build up a fair bit of speed (35-40mph) but halfway down the hill is a junction. A car once started to pull out and made me swerve towards the middle of the road. From then onwards I would still enjoy that road, but if I couldn't make eye contact with the driver waiting to turn from that junction I would slow down to 10-15mph and take up centre position in the road just in case.

Richie · 13 Sep 2013 at 08:32

arknor said:
yea I always do that and at traffic lights unless I'm first anyway I'll just slot in the queue and stop in the middle of the lane.

I can never understand why all cyclists don't do this. I do it when I cycle. Nothing worse for drivers than, after being able to overtake safely,for the cyclist to then filter by the 10 vehicles that have overtaken him/her at lights (or busy Give Ways) to take up position at the front only for the same cars to then have to wait and overtake again.

This slows traffic flow down. The cyclist wants to be treated like a road user, so why not just wait in the line like everyone else when in stationary traffic? :confused:

As I said, I do this when I am cycling.

[DOD]Asprilla · 13 Sep 2013 at 08:51

Richie said:
I can never understand why all cyclists don't do this. I do it when I cycle. Nothing worse for drivers than, after being able to overtake safely,for the cyclist to then filter by the 10 vehicles that have overtaken him/her at lights (or busy Give Ways) to take up position at the front only for the same cars to then have to wait and overtake again.

This slows traffic flow down. The cyclist wants to be treated like a road user, so why not just wait in the line like everyone else when in stationary traffic?

As I said, I do this when I am cycling.

Do you have the same argument for motorcycles or are they different?

I filter to the front because I tend to be able to cover the first 5-10m quicker than cars and that gets me clear of the junction. If I queue in traffic then some intellectual giant behind be me will decide that I'm going slowly and am the reason they won't make it though the current phase (even though I'm going the same speed as the traffic) and so they will attempt the over take and possibly a left hook whilst they are at it.

If the cars are repeatedly being filtered past by the cyclists and are they overtaking again it means their journey times are the same and so traffic flow isn't being slowed as all. Too many people confuse speed with journey time.

I'd prefer to get away ahead of the traffic. It's safer. There is no argument about that point.

Saundie · 13 Sep 2013 at 09:36

[DOD]Asprilla;24935810 said:
Do you have the same argument for motorcycles or are they different?

You're not going to like me for saying this, but I actually do see them differently; they accelerate so much more quickly than cars and bicycles, it's really not a problem to have them filter to the front.

[DOD]Asprilla;24935810 said:
I filter to the front because I tend to be able to cover the first 5-10m quicker than cars and that gets me clear of the junction. If I queue in traffic then some intellectual giant behind be me will decide that I'm going slowly and am the reason they won't make it though the current phase (even though I'm going the same speed as the traffic) and so they will attempt the over take and possibly a left hook whilst they are at it.

Perhaps I have been exceptionally lucky, but I have never had this happen to me. I will take the lane until there is enough space for a car to be able to overtake me, then I will move over to the left. Most of the cyclists I see around here do this. However, that said, if I can get to the front without risking clipping some poor sod's wing mirror then I will, because like you I prefer to get away first for my own safety.

[DOD]Asprilla · 13 Sep 2013 at 09:47

Saundie said:
You're not going to like me for saying this, but I actually do see them differently; they accelerate so much more quickly than cars and bicycles, it's really not a problem to have them filter to the front.

Perhaps I have been exceptionally lucky, but I have never had this happen to me. I will take the lane until there is enough space for a car to be able to overtake me, then I will move over to the left. Most of the cyclists I see around here do this. However, that said, if I can get to the front without risking clipping some poor sod's wing mirror then I will, because like you I prefer to get away first for my own safety.

Oh yeah, I filter if there is room to do so and it's safe to do so. If it's not then I wait in turn. However, ASLs were created because it's safer for cyclists to set off from the front and clear the junction before the rest of the traffic.

Motorcyclists filter to the front and use ASLs because they are trained that it's safe for them to set off from the front. It's the safest place to be, if it's safe to get there.

platypus · 13 Sep 2013 at 09:57

[DOD]Asprilla;24936077 said:
Oh yeah, I filter if there is room to do so and it's safe to do so. If it's not then I wait in turn. However, ASLs were created because it's safer for cyclists to set off from the front and clear the junction before the rest of the traffic.

Motorcyclists filter to the front and use ASLs because they are trained that it's safe for them to set off from the front. It's the safest place to be, if it's safe to get there.

ASLs in Cambridge were installed in order for cars to get a start further into the junction :confused:

?

Scougar · 13 Sep 2013 at 10:03

The eye contact thing, don't trust it. I've had a guy make full on eye contact with me and I had a flashing LED light, and yet still pull out on me going past a junction. I was lucky it was on the flat and not down hill or I would have be off my bike.

In my case, a lot of the road I cycle on is wide enough for a cycle in the left to filter safely, and most of the other stuff is cycle lane or low speed (30 to 40mph) dual carriageway. If there is a queue of traffic I will filter on the right of the car's unless it's dual carriageway, as people have a tendency to switch lanes abruptly without signalling.

As for the opening post, it was a dual carriage way section and I have never seen a cyclist in the middle of the road here. (Probably because the road coming from it is a major A38 roundabout, and there is a cycle path leading from it.) https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=plympton&hl=en&ll=50.391839,-4.082445&spn=0.000179,0.000612&sll=57.746995,-4.687341&sspn=3.166245,20.061035&t=h&hnear=Plympton,+Plymouth,+United+Kingdom&z=21&layer=c&cbll=50.391839,-4.082445&panoid=IwgAwetVWmLVkOpN3dGQZw&cbp=12,84.3,,0,13.21 In this link where you see the blue gold turning (in streetview) is the left hand junction, and at the time of day I come home there are normally queues of stop start traffic due to the frequency of the lights.

I normally am pretty switched on, mainly from years as a motorist, and can tell by people's road position and the way they drive if they are likely to be doing something unexpected, or their likely move. I try to make sure I don't put myself in a dangerous position, and I just forgot, people are fallible. Just hope that this post makes one person stay alert when they might otherwise have not been :-)