AMD Hawaii is 30% smaller than Kepler GK110

Boomstick777 · 16 Sep 2013 at 20:46

Hawaii GPU is 28nm

Let me start from fabrication process. It’s not a secret that 20nm is not coming sooner than Q2 2014. An exclusive interview with Forbes revealed a long known fact, the new GPU will be made in 28nm (Read here).

Quotes from Matt Skynner – Corporate Vice President & GM, Graphics BU and AMD Canada General Manager

“Another thing I can tell you is about the process node: this GPU is in 28nm. Some have speculated that it was 20nm and it’s not for a specific reason: At 28nm for an enthusiast GPU, we can achieve higher clock speeds and higher absolute performance.”

If read between the lines then it’s more or less confirmed that AMD could already have first 20nm samples, and they already know it’s not efficient enough (yet) for mass production.

http://videocardz.com/45623/amd-hawaii-30-smaller-kepler-gk110

Rroff · 16 Sep 2013 at 20:53

Some interesting information and seems to put the 4096 shader rumours to bed.

Orangey · 16 Sep 2013 at 20:55

“It’s also extremely efficient. [Nvidia's Kepler] GK110 is nearly 30% bigger from a die size point of view. We believe we have the best performance for the die size for the enthusiast GPU.”

Not to be a pedant, but... title is inaccurate. Titan is 30% bigger than Hawaii, not Hawaii is 30% smaller than Titan.

Why is an AMD exec talking about process nodes with Forbes though?

LtMatt · 16 Sep 2013 at 21:00

Must be GCN2.0 then like the 7790. More performance (30%) at the same TDP as the 7770.

Boomstick777 · 16 Sep 2013 at 21:09

Orangey said:
Not to be a pedant, but... title is inaccurate. Titan is 30% bigger than Hawaii, not Hawaii is 30% smaller than Titan.

Why is an AMD exec talking about process nodes with Forbes though?

The title was taken straight from the article. They are saying Hawaii is 30% smaller than Titan as Hawaii is the new upcoming product, also shows that it is still on 28nm...

Rroff · 16 Sep 2013 at 21:15

Orangey said:
Why is an AMD exec talking about process nodes with Forbes though?

Forbes covers a lot of tech stuff - IIRC they also do consulting on it for potential investors, etc.

Drangueos · 16 Sep 2013 at 21:21

I have a feeling that this GPUs will run HOT

Orangey · 16 Sep 2013 at 21:34

Boomstick777 said:
The title was taken straight from the article. They are saying Hawaii is 30% smaller than Titan as Hawaii is the new upcoming product, also shows that it is still on 28nm...

30% of 100 is 30. 30% of 130 is 39.

So it doesn't work both ways, is what I'm saying... the article title made a mistake and reversed it from what was quoted.

Sin_Chase · 16 Sep 2013 at 21:56

Smaller die, seems to confirm the new cards will be around/on par with the 780. No way AMD can make a smaller die to the tune of 30% and outperform a 780 with 'efficiency' alone on the same 28nm process.

Boring.

Boomstick777 · 16 Sep 2013 at 22:16

Orangey said:
30% of 100 is 30. 30% of 130 is 39.

So it doesn't work both ways, is what I'm saying... the article title made a mistake and reversed it from what was quoted.

You are thinking about this way to much

.

Sin_Chase said:
Smaller die, seems to confirm the new cards will be around/on par with the 780. No way AMD can make a smaller die to the tune of 30% and outperform a 780 with 'efficiency' alone on the same 28nm process.

Boring.

Yeah looks like it is going to be close between the 780 and 280X. Roll on 20nm GPU's..

ICDP · 16 Sep 2013 at 22:22

Sin_Chase said:
Smaller die, seems to confirm the new cards will be around/on par with the 780. No way AMD can make a smaller die to the tune of 30% and outperform a 780 with 'efficiency' alone on the same 28nm process.

Boring.

Titan is around 27% faster than a HD7970 on average, GTX780 reference is around 20% faster, with OC editions ~30% faster. AMD were never going to release a Titan killer on 28nm, at best we would get similar performance for a lower price.

IMHO if idiots believed AMD were about to release a Titan killer GPU in anything but price, then how is it AMDs fault these tools are disappointed? We see it every single GPU release and still we get tools falling for hype that defies logic and physics. Invariably when AMD or Nvidia fail to deliver on the community generated hype we get the cries of "boring" and "pointless", or "this is the worst GPU ever".

9970 (or whatever it will be called) only needs to deliver GTX780/Titan like performance for around £400 and AMD will have a winner in price/perf. It will also force Nvidia to reduce GTX780 prices to well below £500, this is of course great for consumers.

It's only boring if you fell for hype that was never anything more than rumour and conjecture. For the rest of us AMD will have finally got something at the top end that is remotely competitive in performance.

Rroff · 16 Sep 2013 at 22:26

Sin_Chase said:
Smaller die, seems to confirm the new cards will be around/on par with the 780. No way AMD can make a smaller die to the tune of 30% and outperform a 780 with 'efficiency' alone on the same 28nm process.

Boring.

I suspect in games that are opptimised for newer GCN features i.e. BF4 they will show bigger gains against respective nVidia cards.

On the other note - AFAIK nVidia have a design based on what was GK112 that sits between GK104 and GK110 for compute but at 2304 SP theoretically outperforms the GTX780 by ~15% clock for clock for gaming type use but can also in theory clock higher to. So I suspect what AMD is putting out will be a similiar story and I'd be not totally unsuprised if nVidia released something similiar before 20nm.

Zenduri · 16 Sep 2013 at 23:05

Bit disappointed but not entirely suprised.

I'm in the market for a new card and i guess it will depend how the new R9 280 or whatever its called now days performs against a 780 and the current 7970 will swing it for me. Reluctant to pay absurd gtx 780 prices though

Sin_Chase · 16 Sep 2013 at 23:49

ICDP said:
Titan is around 27% faster than a HD7970 on average, GTX780 reference is around 20% faster, with OC editions ~30% faster. AMD were never going to release a Titan killer on 28nm, at best we would get similar performance for a lower price.

IMHO if idiots believed AMD were about to release a Titan killer GPU in anything but price, then how is it AMDs fault these tools are disappointed? We see it every single GPU release and still we get tools falling for hype that defies logic and physics. Invariably when AMD or Nvidia fail to deliver on the community generated hype we get the cries of "boring" and "pointless", or "this is the worst GPU ever".

9970 (or whatever it will be called) only needs to deliver GTX780/Titan like performance for around £400 and AMD will have a winner in price/perf. It will also force Nvidia to reduce GTX780 prices to well below £500, this is of course great for consumers.

It's only boring if you fell for hype that was never anything more than rumour and conjecture. For the rest of us AMD will have finally got something at the top end that is remotely competitive in performance.

Who said anything about a Titan killer? I certainly did not.

I've not 'fallen' for any hype at all. I have merely made a presumption that the new AMD card will be about on par or marginally better than the current GTX780. Presumptions made on the fact it is a 30% smaller die on the same 28nm process with efficiency improvements. Improvements that will more than likely provide marginal improvements over the current generation of AMD cards.

This opinion/conclusion is drawn in total isolation to any hype the media or community has whipped up. A new card, some significant time after the current top end cards that will likely only be a marginal improvement (and likely still cost more or at the very best, the same) is boring.

I have not placed 'blame' on this boring event on anyone, care not for the hype nor care for your deluded insult throwing opinion on the matter.

It's boring to anyone who is an enthusiast and it's boring to anyone who is genuinely interested in the GPU manufacturers pushing the envelope. Totally hype independent.

The only people who this is NOT boring for is those who like to get last years performance at a cheaper price. Valuable? Certainly! Good news for the lowering of prices? ABSOLUTELY!

Exciting? Hell no.

bfar · 16 Sep 2013 at 23:58

I predict + or -5% against a 780, but a fair bit cheaper. Good on AMD if they can do it

Sin_Chase · 17 Sep 2013 at 00:00

There is absolutely no way AMD will release a card that performs at GTX780 level and price it significantly lower.

Did anybody not learn from the 7970 launch? If it is at or + a few % on a 780 get your piggy banks and something to smash it out

Marine-RX179 · 17 Sep 2013 at 00:12

Sin_Chase said:
Did anybody not learn from the 7970 launch? If it is at or + a few % on a 780 get your piggy banks and something to smash it out

Yea but 7970 and 7950 was ahead of GTX580 at the time...(not to mention they didn't manage to shift many cards at those price points).

Kaapstad · 17 Sep 2013 at 00:56

Sin_Chase said:
There is absolutely no way AMD will release a card that performs at GTX780 level and price it significantly lower.

Did anybody not learn from the 7970 launch? If it is at or + a few % on a 780 get your piggy banks and something to smash it out

I think reading between the lines it won't quite match a GTX 780.

Having said that if AMD start knocking them out at £400 a go it does not have to match a GTX 780 just get close to it.

If AMD do go down this road they will sell by the bucketful.

ICDP · 17 Sep 2013 at 08:46

Sin_Chase said:
Who said anything about a Titan killer? I certainly did not.

I've not 'fallen' for any hype at all. I have merely made a presumption that the new AMD card will be about on par or marginally better than the current GTX780. Presumptions made on the fact it is a 30% smaller die on the same 28nm process with efficiency improvements. Improvements that will more than likely provide marginal improvements over the current generation of AMD cards.

This opinion/conclusion is drawn in total isolation to any hype the media or community has whipped up. A new card, some significant time after the current top end cards that will likely only be a marginal improvement (and likely still cost more or at the very best, the same) is boring.

I have not placed 'blame' on this boring event on anyone, care not for the hype nor care for your deluded insult throwing opinion on the matter.

It's boring to anyone who is an enthusiast and it's boring to anyone who is genuinely interested in the GPU manufacturers pushing the envelope. Totally hype independent.

The only people who this is NOT boring for is those who like to get last years performance at a cheaper price. Valuable? Certainly! Good news for the lowering of prices? ABSOLUTELY!

Exciting? Hell no.

The fact that you expected "exiting" implies you fell for hype or had expectations that were unrealistic. The only way this happens is if you let your imagination or expectations run riot. The increase in die size and an increase in efficiency (Tahiti is ROP constrained) will get 9970 to around GTX780/Titan levels.

By no means is 9970 (or whatever it's called) an exciting product, but it certainly isn't boring either. AMD will achieve their objective of having parity with Nvidia and that was always the best we should have expected.

swiftmetal · 17 Sep 2013 at 08:54

Who needs a titan killer when you can buy 3 7970 for the same price as a titan and it would just rip a titan to pieces all be ot with higher power consumption and more heat.